Logo...Feedback Please

[INDY GS]

Here is a logo I have been working on for a chiropracter. When I get a chance later, I will scan the sketches that built up to this (I'm on my laptop right now).

Anyway, I think the problem to be solved is obvious, this being for a chiropracter and all. He focuses on alleviating back pain, as well as general back wellness.

Any suggestions, I've been working on it for too long now.

[keith1]

It's a decent start, but the graphic doesn't say "alleviating" to me, it says, "pain"! Why the dropped down "i" also. I know it's probably hard to illustrate "chiropractic" without drawing someone's back. Maybe don't be so literal. Try a nice soothing approach. BTW the colors red & black are not soothing. Other than that, it's not badly designed really just not effective IMO.

[LancasterJohn]

The figure is a nice, simple image and I would lose the burst and box he is in or try a different approach to make the artwork more readable and integrated better with "cline." Don't think you need to draw as much emphasis to the "i" and I would consider uppercase for Cline.

[tperkins]

Yeah the "i" doesn't need to be dropped down "out of alignment" chiropratics are about aligning not out of alignment. And yes please cap the "C" in Cline.

[INDY GS]

Good points Keith. The reason for the dropped i, is a subtle hint of misalignment, ie, slipped disc.

As far as color schemes go, I agree that it does not say alleviating.

Also the back yes it is quite literal, but he is insistant that we use some kind of back illustration. This is probobly as abstract as I can go. You should see his early concepts and ideas. Very literal and clip art like.

Thanks for the good insight.

[Mynock]

Honestly, I don't care for it that much, and the more I look at it the more I find out why.

For starters, if you use a star burst focus it on his back and not up and off to the left. Focus the center of the star burst on like the lower back where his hands are reaching.

Secondly, the line separating the cline from the chiropractic isn't thick or strong enough. It's not consistent with the overall feel of the other typography. You need to thicken it or get rid of it, in my opinion.

Thirdly, the "i" dropping down is an interesting element, but right now it does work. It breaks the readers path of reading which can be dangerous. It could be just the color, but you might just want to try to lengthen it below and not just drop it down.

Keith is right about the colors, I would go with a blue or green. I know you sometimes don't have choice on color it can be what your client wants. It is up to you to let them know the reason you changed their color and why.

Here is some color associations to help you out:

Red: Power, energy, love, passion, aggression, danger
Blue: Trust, conservative, secure, clean, sorrowful, order
Green: Nature, earth, health, jealousy, renewal
Orange: Fun, happiness
Yellow: Optimism, hope, philosophy, cowardice
Violet: Royalty, mystery, religion
Brown: Reliability, comfort, endurance, earth
Gray/Silver: Intellect, futurism, modesty, sadness, decay, elegance
Black: Power, sexuality, sophistication, mystery, fear, unhappiness, death
White: Purity, cleanliness, precision, innocence, sterility, death

Taken from:
the Zen of CSS design by dave shea and molly e. holzshlag

[INDY GS]

Thanks, great insight all. I originally had the "pain Burst" at the lower left, but the more I looked at it, the more it looked like a fart explosion, and I couldn't get that out of my mind.

I should have some changes that I will post later.

[INDY GS]

With color change, Caping the C, removing the pain burst.

[mylkhead]

Yeah now we are getting somewhere.

[LancasterJohn]

Much better. The color choice now looks more at ease and has more of a professional, medical feel -- a place that as a patient you could trust. That artwork is still looking small and I wonder how it will translate when reproduced on business cards, pens, etc...

What would happen if you opened up the kerning on CHIROPRACTIC so that it was justified with Cline? Maybe make it a few points bigger so that it doesn't get lost. You could then blow up the icon to the height of both lines. Also what about reversing CHIROPRACTIC over a screen of the teal color or making it italic?

[Mitch Wood]

Very static...

Why the box??

The use of the box makes it very static and rigid. I would suggest using only the graphic, as it has nice pos/neg shapes and work you type around it insteads of just placing it next to it.

Maybe a font that has more charachter and isn't so formal...

...make me want to come to this place if I have a bad back, make it friendly and approachable.


p.s. AND NO DONT JUSTIFY THE TEXT TO MAK IT SQUARE, think natural, think organic...

[keith1]

Much better but not done :). I agree about the boxed in graphic,try it not boxed in. I don't think the line is doing anything. I also agree about trying different fonts. Also try using a sky or light blue instead of the turquoise, not that it's bad I just don't care for that color personally :D

[Mitch Wood]

Yes I agree the colour is an improvement from the first, but it still needs to pushed...

When I said natural, I meant thinking earthy tones maybe?

I really think you should make it work in mono before adding any colour. Get the contruction of the logo ready then apply the colour.

[keith1]

I really think you should make it work in mono before adding any colour. Get the contruction of the logo ready then apply the colour.

Fo real!

[Mitch Wood]

I suprised you didn't get there first Keith ;)


I thought the list was excellent that Mynock posted...


Brown: Reliability, comfort, endurance, earth

[vtwin_gary]

even thought no one else did... i liked the "i" in the first one, i thought you took it too far but liked the idea. i do like the 2nd one better.

[Mitch Wood]

even thought no one else did... i liked the "i" in the first one, i thought you took it too far but liked the idea. i do like the 2nd one better.


It could have been done with more subtelty though. Not too sure if it would have confused the mark, but I guess if you don't try it you won't know...

[Steve1]

I like the concept. Keep the misalignment 'I'. It gave me the correct feeling straight away.

I'd get rid of the star burst and use a rounded typeface to make it feel softer.

I prefer two colour but prob not red and black. Again something softer.

[wienerdog]

What would happen if you opened up the kerning on CHIROPRACTIC so that it was justified with Cline? Maybe make it a few points bigger so that it doesn't get lost. You could then blow up the icon to the height of both lines. Also what about reversing CHIROPRACTIC over a screen of the teal color or making it italic?

I agree with LancasterJohn. See if you can get the CHIROPRACTIC to line up with Cline. Maybe use a tint of teal, or two analogous blue colors.

[LancasterJohn]

Analagous color scheme would work very nice.

[INDY GS]

OK here are some other variations. I would like to stop flogging this concept and work on another one in addition. I would like to give the client at least 2 totally different concepts. I have another one I will post as it develops.

I don't like the one with the shilouette out of the box, it just doesn't portray the same bold feeling as before. Any suggestions on this?

Let me know what you think of these.

[LancasterJohn]

Liking version 4 -- you may have to do some work with the negative space of the artwork for it to translate well. Version 3 (the blue version) is starting to work better. Maybe instead of the vertical white bar separating the art from the icon, follow the shape of his arm with the same width.

[LancasterJohn]

That is the same width as the vertical bar.

[Ghastly]

I'm voting #3 :cool: (undecided on the colours)
the *special offer* star (as I prefer to call it) on #5 is, ahem...a bad idea.:eek: (shudder)
not to keen on the inverse shape of #4

[vtwin_gary]

i'm torn here. i think 3 is more "finished" & i think it works as is
but i like 4 better but i don't think it's done yet.

good luck

[INDY GS]

The 4th one was an experiment, and I am exploring it. Here are a few, thanks for helping me push the envelope a bit more.

These ones need some tweaking yet, but i like where they are going.

[vtwin_gary]

my biggest problem is the pointy elbow, other than that looks good.

[INDY GS]

Yeah that elbow is one of the aspects i don't like yet. I'm fixing that. Which do you prefer top or bottom?

[Mynock]

bottom, but simplify the illustration a little, start by getting rid of the white outline on the left hand side

[wienerdog]

I like the top one without the rounded rectangle, but I'd smooth out the lines on the arm on the left.

[keith1]

I think the graphic could be simplified big time and it kind of looks like he just walked into a wall. Also look at it in all black and scaled down to 2 inches. The graphic gets lost and since you boxed it all in there seems to be too much black going on. Try it without boxing in everything.

[Mynock]

you need to clean up these areas in my opinion, they just don't look quite right. The rest looks good, but these portions looked rushed.

[LancasterJohn]

Yeah Mynok, the little hands were freaking me out a bit. Gotta' be more scalable. I think this logo is looking a hell of a lot better, though. The kerning on Cline could be better -- right now it looks like you took whatever the computer typed out. What about more space between the icon and box? Maybe a version of this with CLINE in all uppercase and Chirpractic nesting under the elbow?

[LancasterJohn]

I don't think you need to illustrate every last finger, maybe a general highlight of a hand.

[Mitch Wood]

DON'T DESIGN A LOGO WITH COLOUR TILL YOU HAVE DECIDED ON AN EXACT STRUCTURE!

What is the point in posting if no one takes any notice? Jeeze, this is a basic fundamental that anyone creating any type of symbol should follow!

I give up!

[keith1]

DON'T DESIGN A LOGO WITH COLOUR TILL YOU HAVE DECIDED ON AN EXACT STRUCTURE!

What is the point in posting if no one takes any notice? Jeeze, this is a basic fundamental that anyone creating any type of symbol should follow!

I give up!


Me too.

[INDY GS]

What is the point in posting if no one takes any notice?


Not quite sure I understand what you mean by this?

I realize that a logo should not use color until the basic fundimental forms have been developed. Do I really have to scan my entire sketch pad and post several mundane variations in B&W to please someone on the internet. Quite frankly I don't have the time to mess with that.

My first post included a colorized version of an all black version. Based on feedback here, I quickly made some variations, with some suggested color schemes, from others here so I could try to resolve two issues at once. I have said several times that what I have posted need to be tweaked and polished.

With that, I am done.

[Mynock]

I don't give up

[keith1]

INDY no one is asking you to scan a bunch of sketches. Obviously your logo isn't working for the people that have crit'd it and it isn't working for you either becuz you keep revising it. The reason it isn't working is becuz the arrangment & placement of shapes and type isn't working. Adding color to a logo that wasn't working in the first place won't make it any better. I know they were color ideas you had but don't worry about that now just work in BW, not enough people do and and it will make you a better designer. When mitch said, "What is the point in posting if no one takes any notice?" He meant why give sound constructive critism if your not listening. The "work in black & white first" is about the best advice anyone can give to someone designing a logo.

[LancasterJohn]

I say whatever works for you to visualize the finished logo, although the black and white approach will keep you focused on form. Mitch needs to take a chill pill BTW.

[Ghastly]

Don't think mitch needs to take a chill pill to be honest...I fell in to the same trap myself a while back and was very bluntly informed of *all* the inadequacies of my logo design...looking back I have nothing but gratitude for the honesty of all those who ripped me to shreds.

The logo needs to work in black & white before colour is added. This logo doesn't work yet, and colour will not do anything to help it's feasibility (may help aesthetically but that is pointless at this stage).

Imagine firstly that your logo may need to be faxed...or will appear in a newspaper....imagine it is to be read in a whole range of different lighting conditions where your colours may be of little appeal or usefulness...imagine it will be read by some people who are colour blind...and so on...

Things are starting to come together, but you hafta listen and take on board the wisdom of professionals.

*edit* one more...imagine a hypothetical scenario where you pick a different colour and suddenly everything falls into place, looks fantastic and works perfectly just like magic...think of the limitations that would place on your usage of the logo, it's success would be hanging by one treacherous (but nicely coloured) little thread.
(and before anyone says I'm a hypocrit and thinks that my own logo is a bit sh*t...my skills are in illustration not logo design. I'm still working on it though. ya shoulda seen my earlier versions lol ;-) )

[INDY GS]

With all due respect Ghastly, I am a professional, and came here seeking a critique on an original concept, that now that I look back at it, lacked in execution, and certain qualities for recognition at a small scale. It was first done in Black only.

I don't really need someone to tell me all of the possible scenarios where this logo may or may not appear, I realize that it may be faxed, or may be put in a newspaper in black ink only. It may also appear on Television and the internet, should I add a drop shadow and a gradient for those scenarios? :D

I didn't come here to get my ego stroked, I came for critique on one concept that I wanted to develop a bit to throw in with the sketches to show to the client.

We are meeting later today, once we settle on a direction, I will do some serious refining, on that concept and post that here for all to see, before we go to the next round of revisions.

Thanks for everyones advice that helped me get to the point where I can show my client something I am comfortable with.

* EDIT: I like how you hid the disclaimer on your logo. For what it's worth, I would not attack your logo to defend something I did.

[Ghastly]

Indy...my apologies if I came across as a condescending idiot, that was not my intention :cool: . For my part I do not question your professionalism, perhaps my usage of the word "professionals" as opposed to "peers" irked you...maybe it didn't, but for what its worth I went perhaps into a bit too much detail perhaps of the potential problems that working with colour at the wrong stage could cause; not just to p*ss you off or make myself look dead good, but because so many people use that methodology.

(drop shadow?...gradient?...for TV or internet???...plagh! everyone knows you gotta use animated lens-flare and spherize filter for that)

[INDY GS]

better yet, bevel and emboss, with a hint of difference clouds. and a killer outer glow. yeah that's it.

no problem, Ghastly, I may not have been very clear in stating that these are just early round revisions of one direction I am going in. My meeting friday was pushed off untill tomorrow, I will hopefully post the two final versions later in the day.

[Mitch Wood]

Indy GS, please do not take my comments the wrong way.

I never asked you to scan your sketches, and even if I did it would be a fair comment so you can get a fair crit.

I like the mark, as I said it has some good neg space that could work with the type, I just feel you still need to work on this before you apply colour.

As we all know there is a very fine line between a logo that works well and one that is great. I just don't want you to miss this line.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

Huge improvement. I do think the original design you presented was an advertisement for pain, rather than relief. The new version is much more soothing and professional-looking. Like John, I would be concerned about the size of the word CHIROPRACTIC - it's could easily become unreadable in small applications.

- J.