They never told us in college what it would be like!

[bunwhisper]

Wow, what a great forum! Its good to see so many other people with a passion for design but so sad to see that so many of us have no respect for what we do.

I'm a graphic designer with 15 years of experience and a BFA in design. I've advanced to the level of art director. I've worked in the corporate world for most of my career and I know exactly how you guys feel about the lack of respect--indeed, its often DISrespect--towards our work. Nobody tells you in school what this career will be like--if they did, everyone would switch majors. What other careers do you spend four years in school for, only to have people in totally unrelated fields tell you how you could do your job better?

People have told me repeatedly not to take it personally when someone comes into my office and says 'ewwwwww who chose this paper--its SO unprofessional!' Um, yes that would be ME, thanks! (This was after choosing a paper that had a small speckle in it for stationary. It was beautiful stock). Or don't feel bad when someone says 'let me lay it out instead. I know what I want'. This of course produces something dreadful done in Word, and yes, they are happy with it, but they have effectively cut me out of the entire project and I am supposed to be fine with that? I take pride in what I do and doing this kind of stuff to me makes me feel just awful.

Do I walk into the accountants office and tell him how he could do his job better? Do I go down the hall and tell the company lawyer how to practice law? Why is it okay for people to do this to us? If I protest, I am labelled 'difficult'. When I say nothing, I
hate myself and my job. After several positions, I began to realize it is the CAREER, not the particular workplace, and it ain't gonna change.

So I went back to school and am halfway through my Master's degree in Social Work. Maybe I can give burned out designers some good therapy :) Actually, I plan to go into private practice and work with troubled teenagers. While they might not be appreciative all the timeeither, I at least know that my dedication is meaningful. I will probably do some design on the side but I will pick and choose what I do.

Thanks for listening to me vent! /emoticons/frusty.gif If you want to see any of my current work, check out www.besthealthplans.com

[defjoe]

VERY good explaination...bravo to you. everything you said is true.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[Big Perm-dizzle]

however I hear social work is has a high turnover rate due to the horrible things you see and hear about the 'outside world'

my freshman year of college I worked at Movie Gallery and my manager quit doing social work because the things she saw were the most horrible things you could imagine. She said it kept her up at night.

On a lighter note: Good Luck to your new career

are you going to freelance? dont let your talent/ skills go to waste....

JUST LAUNCHED - www.hirethisdesigner.com (http://www.hirethisdesigner.com) - check it out

[Madora]

I know exactly how you feel! (It only took me 5 years to realize this though. ;) he he )

I'm getting out of GD as a career and going back to school to study nursing. :D

"Who am I? Where did I come from? Who are these demons, and why do they relentlessly cross my path?"

[vision_d]

Will you be happy doing nursing? the problem is that in my family once everyone heard I was going into graphic design nobody understood what the heck it was no matter how much I explained and then they would make the comment well why didnt you go into nursing or business? Like those are the only two professions out there. Yeah it is perfectly fine if your heart in it and you maybe dont know what you want to do but or just frustrated with your current job like you madora. Does anybody else know what I am talking about?

The approval of GD is based on taste. Taste is based on perspective and perspective is based on the ignorance of our customers.

It's a viscous cycle and we can’t control it. =(

[D-Frag]

Great explanation....I dont understand (ok i kinda do with mad, the state drove her to it) how some of you people want to leave the industry though....I mean common whats better then sitting down all day on a computer? I really enjoy what I do, yes I stress out and freak during stressful times, but after its all over and the dust settles I can look at my creation with a smile, knowing that I created something that everyone is going to look at. It may not be fine art, or uplifting, but if I can get through to 10 out of the 100's of people that view my designs...then I am happy.

I have always wanted to be a Cop, special forces, or a ER doctor.....maybe some day I will do one of those things (considering we change careers 5 times in a lifetime) but for right now, I just did 10+ years of sales, and this is the best thing I could ever ask for. I refuse to go back to the daily grind of sales, I like using my creative talent in life, even if it isnt monatary.



censored by the all mighty gods of reality. (http://www.broadjam.com/songtracking/playsonghifi.asp?songID=70045&play_file=6353_70045 &sessionID=AD25B69960314533A78B9AE267360C5E&sessio nINDEX=5525)

[defjoe]

I want my MTV!

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[vision_d]

No offense, but money isnt everything. I would much rather do something that I love and have a middle class life. My fiances brother thinks about money and is a misserable person inside and he wont even get married until he has $100,000 in the bank, kind of unrealistic and unfair for his girlfreind of 5 years. I went into GD knowing that I would not get rich off of it but I was willing to go for it. I to be quite frank I would much rather make a ok income and spend more time with the people that are improtant to me, some of those bigshots in corporate work 24/7 and never see their familys. So there is my two cents.

[bunwhisper]

D-Frag said...
Great explanation....I dont understand (ok i kinda do with mad, the state drove her to it) how some of you people want to leave the industry though....I mean common whats better then sitting down all day on a computer? .

Shopping... going to the beach... traveling... petting my rabbits... almost anything LOL! I think once you have been in the industry awhile, you will understand why people burn out and leave but I dont want to convince you that its terrible. Compared to your last career, maybe its much better for you, and I am glad. /emoticons/smile.gif

I am not going into therapy (I will be a private practitioner in a practice of psychologists) to just make money. I want to do something meaningful and something that matters. In fifty years (or even fifty minutes) nobody will care about my design but if I can help a kid with problems to lead a productive life, to know that other people care and encourage him to live to his potential, then I have done much much more for the world than I ever did as a designer. I got a taste of this in my internship this year and it was just great! I know there is at least one young teenager out there who is happier because we worked on things together. /emoticons/smile.gif

Amnibo makes a good point though, about financial security. We are paid less than other people who have similar experience in their fields--a LOT less. I am at the top of my career as an Art Director, but I am not making a pile o dough. I probably would make more at a hot shot agency but I dont want the insanity, so I have chosen my path. But despite my experience and degree and even bosses who like me, its impossible to convince anyone in the corporate world that a designer should be paid as much as say... an insurance broker who may have NO degree. :-\ We are unfortunately often seen as 'admin' staff and paid like them. Or like low-level tech workers.

I would like to own a house--and in Los Angeles, its not possible to buy one on a designer's salary (median home price is over $500,000). I have to make my own security and the way to do that was to change fields. I've been laid off three times in this field--its extremely unstable. As a therapist, I will be my own boss. Whoo hoo!

[YellowDart]

I can understand where you guys are coming from. I've only just started my career by 'getting my foot in the door' as an intern for a publishing house. I do mainly design work for our customers, who, for the most part are truck drivers, machinery operators, or owners of deisel truck dealerships or construction equipment dealerships/renters. So, most of my work over the past year and a half consists of red and black or yellow and black websites containing grainy, poorly shot photos and starbursts with stupid tag lines like 'View Our Inventory Hot Sheet!' *puts face through monitor*

I hope to get into a design position that wil allow for more creativity, but I know that will come with the 'people telling me how I can do my job better' aspect of our career path. I've been extremely lucky in the fact that my Art Director has a place with the upper management in my company (although I don't think she's got the official title, so the probably doesn't have the paycheck of upper management either; it's somewhat of an unspoken position). She protects us (her designers) very well from the sales reps and editors that get crazy ideas. There have been a few instances where I've recieved task orders and wanted to throttle the sales reps/customers, but at least I have a clear cut target viewer that really doesn't fluctuate.

I'm thinking about leaving after I graduate in December though. I'd like more creative control in my design, and a broader spectrum of subject matter aside from the typical 'We sell CAT bulldozers and excavators' sites I see now. I'd like to get into more print as well...

I think what's really kept my spirits higher is my work I've been doing in painting and gallery installation. The fine art community here in Phoenix is really starting to grow. So lately, I've really been trying to detach myself from my designs at work (while still turning out quality sites and ads), and focus more of my creative juices toward painting. I find it's much more fullfilling. Still doesn't pay the bills, but it makes me feel much better, and I have yet to hear somebody tell me how I could paint it better. ;)

[Big Perm-dizzle]

honestly i dont care if my designs are ugly....I WANT SOME MONEY......they can pick whatever they want.....as long as they are happy...

JUST LAUNCHED - www.hirethisdesigner.com (http://www.hirethisdesigner.com) - check it out

[defjoe]

Amen to that my friend.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[Benjamin]

I started out as a linguist, worked in the civil service for 5 years, retrained in computer science, did a masters in computers and in speech technology and language processing, started a PhD in this branch of computing, got really fed up with it, and decided to quit and start out on my own doing web design / graphic design instead. Had no training other than I used to like to draw and my mother is an artist. So I'm having to teach myself everything now as I go. Obviously the programming from computer science helps with the web development/coding side. I guess IDEALLY I'd do music instead but that just seems SOOO hard to make any money at and you need so much talent. At least quite a few people want a website.

http://www.jackfruitdesign.com/
Om Namah Shivaya

[Benjamin]

I don't mean you don't need talent for graphic design, but have you ever thought what it takes to make a career as a singer/songwriter .... Argh.

http://www.jackfruitdesign.com/
Om Namah Shivaya

[iluvmypook]

Client: 'I took the whole weekend to draft the layout for what I want'
Me: 'Um well let me see'
Client: 'This is the way I do it so I want you to do it that way'
Me: 'Are you a graphic artist?'
Client:'no I'm a pastry chef, but I am good at this kinda stuff...it's not THAT hard'
Me: 'So explain to me why I'm here and why you're paying me?'

[thecldriver]

Atleast the most of you already have jobs in the field to say you dont like it. I just graduated and I am in desperate need of a design job but finding it hard to get a foot in the door when i dont have 3-5 years experience in the field. I know it aint easy just starting out, but come on i live in NYC why cant i find a dang on job. !!!!! If i do stay in this field i want to be more into prepress, that kind of stuff floats my boat. And here in nyc with alot of experience you can make a good 65 k a year off of it. Money isnt everything to me but having a piece of mind is. If all falls i am either gonna go for a masters degree in some other field or go be a nurse, which would mean i would have wasted 4 1/2 years of my life in college. But hey you live and you learn.

[PrintDriver]

thecldriver - Yes, maybe you can earn 65k a year at prepress (don't beleive everything you might read at Salary.com cuz I ain't seen it and know very few who do - and they are DAMN good at what they do).

But you have to start at 24k a year. And work hard for it.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

thecldriver go to www.craigslist.org (http://www.craigslist.org) check under there NYC section they have a ton of entry level jobs posted on there. Good Luck!

[thecldriver]

thanks benjo and print driver for the encouragement. i love this field too much to leave it, i was just mad about not getting a lick at a job yet, but things are looking up i got 2 interviews :)

[BuckarooB]

Yeah, you guys are all right, but you're missing one particular truth...

'No Matter Where You Go - there you are!'

Even the most gap-toothed cretin (or is it cretan?) dises someone whose work is perceived by them as play - especially since the advent of affordable computers and software that even the Goat Strangler's Son can manage to poke clipart into. When designers actually used T-squares, exotic orange films and little knives, it was a different story altogether!

Even before professional design software was ported from Mac to Microsoft boxes...

No wait. It was still the same old tub-o-poop. Never mind...

BB

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are. (Confucius)

[runningincircles]

I am a college student (going into my junior year) andplan on getting my degree in graphic design. After reading this thread a bit, I'm wondering ifI should take my talent elsewhere.(photography, studio art, or art history) Sounds like being under appreciated at work really sucks. Not only is that an issue, but for some reason, although i completely enjoy graphic design, I do feel like working for some huge corporation is selling out. What kind of options are out there for a graphic designer who doesn't want to sell her soul to some corporate devil or bedisrespected at work?

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/frusty.gif

[PrintDriver]

Go into exhibit design or show biz.
Lots of museums and parks out there need content.
No advertising, fun, BIG graphics.
The firms that do this stuff tend to be all design oriented. Not that there isn't a totem pole to climb (you do have to start at the bottom doing production work) but most are respectful. Overworked, jammed for time, etc.

My favorite site to point out is www.jackmorton.com
Check out the 'What we do' section. Someone designs all that stuff.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[defjoe]

You know it's funny. We get a lot of students that are just getting into the field and i would say 99% of them are not ready. Have no clue what they are in for. They comes here and are somewhat surprised at us, veterens, stories. What are these schools teaching? did none of these instructors work in the industry? I think we should start a GDF school. Man would we be good. Professor Defjoe. /emoticons/icon_cool.gif

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[BuckarooB]

I love you guys...

So innocent. So pure. And, I write that with the greatest respect and regard. You'll have to trust me on the love part, but it comes from years of teaching and working in our industry. I smile at your concerns only because in them I see myself over the last three decades in GD and Art...

Every profession, whether Coppers, Doctors, Artists or Strippers believes in the cores of its practitioners that they are dissed by whom they serve. Title Company Closers believe they get no respect and that Lenders and Realtors are 20 points more stupid than the living dead.

Soldiers are convinced that the world lacks appreciation for their sacrifices and sees them as baby killers... while Firemen fear that the public will catch on to their 24 on, 48 off secret... and think of them as professional TV viewers who occasionally breath life back into a puppy or kitten pulled from a smoking structure... hmm, but let's move on with the point addressed.

Granted, we all want the respect of our peers and those whom we Serve... WE SERVE... We are, or aspire to be Servants to our clients by increasing the quality of their lives and those of others whom they, in turn, serve. We, all of us, serve one another. That is the purpose of life - as far as we know...

All of us struggle against the void! Each and every breed of Mongo cracks an eye lid each morning, cranks and lurches toward the source of coffee and stares blankly seeking to remember just what the hell it is that drives us forward once more into that breech.

Humanity hurls itself head-long into the gaping maw of each day's unknown adventure for one reason and one reason only...

CREDITORS!!!

That's right! Those money grubbing mongers who have convinced us that they can lead us to a bright future through schooling, boating, hot-rodding, remodeling, vacationing, Audiophiling, Movie-viewing, and Nintendoing. Grasping, Aspiring, Coveting, Possessing drags us forward into the daylight or computer's glow to ply trades and professions that propel us into palaces of superiority, bastions of callous calculations and trenches of unyielding...

I'm sorry - what was your question?

Oh! Yeah! Here it is... Whether your job, work or profession is satisfying depends on YOU. Attitude is everything! Personally, mine sux, but if I can convince just one of you of the value you give to humanity, I will not have rolled out of the sack this afternoon in vain.

Geeze, I love you guys. Excuse me while I go get a Kleenex (R)... (remember that brand names are not generic representations, but symbols of corporate prowess and the strength and backbone of America and the Free World!) SELL OUT!!!??? SELL OUT?? That's what WE do Ladies and Gentlemen. We sell our mind-spawn to those who will pay! If you're not selling out, then do Pro-Bono. Dish up gruel at the local shelter. Cut Hobo Hair on every second Sunday and lay out your plans to replace Mother Teresa when she ascends to that Angelic Choir...

I cried when my automatic washing machine broke down, until I saw a man who had no detergent...

Good Grief - we're whining (I'm included in the group of whiners too)... we're whining that we don't get no respect when there are people that don't get no food. There are people who don't get no arms... that don't get no chances... that don't get no XBox... that don't get to worship millionaires dunking basket balls in glorified playground sports...

You are above all of that! You are the Artists. You are the spirit of quality of life and business. Sell Out Dammit! Sell Out Every Damn Day You Can...

XOXOXOX, BB

PS - Don't you even think about giving up. You're no quitter...

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are. (Confucius)

[PrintDriver]

Wow.
Not sure it that's a diss or a dissertation.
And I thought I was a cynic.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Zine]

I just feel.....wierd /emoticons/huh.gif

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Post Edited (D-Zine) : 6/30/2004 8:09:23 PM GMT

[BuckarooB]

No, it's supportive from an exhausted point of view. Everyone is always talking about quitting and that's not an option.

We can't have GDs quitting because some client give 'em a hard time...

Point is, every profession feels the same. Unappreciated and underpaid. Problem is with GD it's true, but we can't let that get us down, right?

BB

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are. (Confucius)

[::Style::]

hey their!
I am 18 years only.. and I will enter-hopefully- graphicdesign field in the university...

well..

.. Im too glad toget some experience from u..

I am entering GD cuz i like it.. I have some how creativity and talent..
I wish I can succeed in life..
and thx for the infos
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


your friend
Jazzed-Designer
JazzedDesigner@hotmail.com (JazzedDesigner@hotmail.com)

[paulrandfan]

I think a big problem in the school (having just gotten out myself) is that the professors have not worked in the field for some time, and a lot of the people I went to school with didn't have to work. I worked full time throughout high school and college in retail (Target, Lowes), so I had my share of diss and angry people, enough to prepare me for dealing with people in a variety of different situations. Several of my classmates already want out because of clients. Sure it's frustrating and bad sometimes, but it's not personal. And I would never see it as a reason to leave Graphic design.
Schools really don't prepare you for clients, and the more we talk about this, the more I wonder what I was actually taught by my professors. I think they just give you the start, and you are left to develop yourself from what they gave you. I dunno.

'To Design is much more than simply to assemble, to order, or even to edit; it is to add value and meaning, to illuminate, to simplify, to clarify, to modify, to dignify, to dramatize, to persuade, and perhaps even to amuse.' --Paul Rand

[BuckarooB]

The reason they don't tell you that stuff in college is multi-faceted... In fact there are 10 reasons no one is told that sort of thing in college. We call them -

The Top Ten Reasons Colleges Don't Warn Students About Work

10. The college makes money by keeping students not running them off because the world is a hard place.

9. Many profs work in the industry and teach and I always warned my students - trust me every job and profession gets no respect.

8. Many art related jobs are cool, so why warn people off of a potentially good thing.

7. The world needs artists to raise the quality of life.

6. Colleges are places to have fun! What? Me Worry?

5. College students don't listen to anyone anyway! Their F-ing college students!!!!

4. Information like that is hidden in books! That's why we art majors never heard about that stuff.

3. That information is reserved for the graduate level students!

2. Why the hell would any of the rest of us want to let out the secret that Life Sux and then You Die... if you're lucky.

1. And the number one reason they never tell that stuff in college is... They just didn't tell you!!!! The rest of us knew all along!

BB

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are.

Post Edited (BuckarooB) : 7/14/2004 3:20:01 AM GMT

[D]

The way I see it, the colleges play the 'don't ask, don't tell' game with the students.

I won't mention the school I go to, but I can gurantee you that if you were to attend and buy into what they were to tell you, and just do the average amount of work, thus being the average student who attends the school, then of course you are going to walk out feeling you got screwded over.

I learned this switching majors (into Graphic Design) and in return gave me more time to study. I noticed how friends messed around and waited upon the last minute, literally at times, to create their projects. I'm not shocked at the fact that there are people who attend colleges that are like this, I'm more shocked at the fact that the campus allows it to happen. They don't see students as individuals, they see them as a mass with a price tag on their head. Tuitions are always going to be going up as more and more people decide to go to college. Even in the art world you can be held back from achieving certain things without a BA in whatever it may be that's out there.

Even the senior portfolio's all have to carry a certain amount of specific pieces upon graduating when it comes to finishing school (speaking for my school that is). Thats insulting to me. It's like they are telling me, 'yes join us and become a unique and individual person with ideas to put out to the world' and next second I get told, 'no you have to have what everybody else is putting in their's so that no one stands out from the rest.' Thats bullsh!t, flat out bullsh!t. I told my academic director that he'll get that, I dont mind, but I'm going to put more effort in creating my own porfolio, and have it at the portfolio show for everyone to see.

I believe it's upon the student themselves to see whats out there and to do it themselves. It's a shame we are given teachers for each class we have to take, yet walk away without knowing much at all. Get contacts, know people, study whats out there, know the business, and make yourself stand out from the rest. Thats what I reccomend. Don't be a tool or a number to these fat cats who treat college students like cattle.

[PrintDriver]

Bingo D.

And should several students be late getting their projects done, the critique is always postponed to the next class. Screw you guys who sweated and got it done on time, we can't have anyone failing a class and dropping out and not paying us. In Graphic Design deadlines should be stressed, not loosened.
Doesn't happen out here.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[DonnaL]

Well I don't know anything about the 'College Experience' since I taught myself. I don't have a degree in fine arts or any college degree for that matter. I went straight from high school to blue collar work.

It took years for me to find something I really enjoyed. I began working at Kinko's as a little copy girl behind the counter running xerox machines. Then 3rd shift came around and while killing time I plucked away at the computers. I'm talking Photoshop 2.5 was just released! OMG!!!!

Anyway... I was immediately hooked! I pounded those keys and learned everything about each and every program on those computers.

Granted I had an artistic ability. Drawing, writing, etc. And I took that artistic ability to the next level. Graphic Design. I had an eye for it and proved it when Kinko's needed a 'desktop publisher'. I got the job. And.. I advanced from there. Kept my work, started my own little portfolio, granted all it was was a 3-ring binder and some plastic sheet protectors. Nothing fancy schmancy.

Years later, I got better and better, kept up with the latest software versions and landed myself a job as a graphic designer at a newspaper. I won 1st place for the Press Association for best Supplement Cover. I few second places for b/w and color ads.

In the meantime, I bumped into an old old friend of mine. We talked and she said she was currently going to school for graphic design. I was proud of her. She graduated... the thing was... she kept calling me several times to ask me how to do this or how to do that etc. and here I am thinking...'what the hell is this school teaching her?'

I then landed a better job across the country. I packed up and moved southwest to work as a graphic designer and in prepress. I'm still learning more and more. And yet this girl I met, moved to NY to find work in the GD field. I spoke to her a few times and she was having chit luck.

I say... screw college! It's talent, creative ability, and the DESIRE to do what you want to do. This is my passion, since the day I layed my fingers on the keyboard for the first time, I knew what I wanted to do. And I'm doing it, with NO bachelors degree.

As for those of you who want out of GD to become a nurse or whatever. I ask you this..is that your passion?

Some drink from the fountain of knowledge while other's just gargle with it.

[pixelmonkey]

Dee said...
As for those of you who want out of GD to become a nurse or whatever. I ask you this..is that your passion?to empty bed pans! http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/thumbsup.gif


http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/rofl.gif
chris<pixelmonkey>:D

the monkey makes all the girls bounce!
*i'm an aerobics instructor too*

[dclink]

I read this with great interest - on many levels. Let me give some background. I am a Commercial Art instructor. My students are 11th and 12th graders, (some adults/college). I feel I really have it good. I love my job as a teacher and to keep sharp I do some freelance. This set up gives me lots of variety. I don't do enough graphic design to get bored. I love graphic design. I love everything from designing forms to logos to signs to brochures, etc. I am constantly learning and perfecting my skills. I am good but could be better, I know a bit but have lots to learn. Ok, having said all that- What advice would you give your own 12th grader??

You see, I have had my son, Andy in my class last year and he plans to complete the program next year. He is a terrific designer. He has good instincts. He is not really an artist- i.e. he does not 'draw' much. He is not real good a deadlines, however, how many of us were as a 17 year old? He just recently WON the regional and state SkillsUSA advertising design contest and 4th in the nation.

He has said right along he would be a Cisco network tech. Now, (given his recent success at SkillsUSA) he thinks he would like to be a GD. Of course, this will be his decision but given everything you know, do you want your own kid to do it?

[defjoe]

if I had a kid.. I would steer them away from it.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[BuckarooB]

defjoe, if you had a kid it would have been taken from you at a very early age for Jedi training. Don't forget that...

And don't forget that only first generation Jedi can even consider GD. After all when one is a GD Jedi first class (part-time) there is the late development of Jedi skills that precludes purely those pursuits...


BB
/emoticons/thumbsup.gif

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are.

Post Edited (BuckarooB) : 7/14/2004 3:16:26 AM GMT