Paper, Obsolete computers taking over arggg

[ryaninwa]

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/frusty.gifit is a little bit disturbing to me to see most designers now spending about 92.3% of their time staring off into their computer screen. Most Psychologists say that this becomes an obsession to some people. In my humble opinion a real designer first does things by hand with the computer completely shut off before he or she logs on. In school we learned that the comptuer is the final stage and mainly the production tool, not the designing tool. Alot of dreamers now aregoing and buying a cheap used computer, then trying to start freelancing graphics and it irritates alot of us who have spent so much time and effort!!!!!

[casedsgn]

ryaninwa said...
In my humble opinion a real designer first does things by hand with the computer completely shut off before he or she logs on. In school we learned that the comptuer is the final stage and mainly the production tool, not the designing tool.

I don't know how a 'real designer' is suppossed to do things...but.....

I hear where you're coming from though...when I was in school, we had points taken off for USING a computer. Lots of people, especially in the creative industry, frown on 'the computer' and what it's taken the place of. The 22 year old version of me would kick my ass for saying this, but I don't see anything wrong with using the computer as a 'concept to finish tool'.

A design is only as strong as it's idea, whether it was developed in a sketch book or on the screen, it shouldn't matter. If you feel the computer is restrictive and doesn't allow you to reach you creative potential in the idea stage...then don't use it. To my initial suprise, I've found that I can sketch and doodle with a pressure sensitve tablet and photoshop just as well as I can on paper...if not better because of the added flexibility. And I don't have to scan anything because it's already digital.

I view my computer as an organic tool, just like paper. The brush engine in Photoshop 7<->CS is amazing and when paired with a nice tablet...it's become my new sketchbook!

ryaninwa said...
it is a little bit disturbing to me to see most designers now spending about 92.3% of their time staring off into their computer screen.

I think the disturbing part is that 50% of that 92.3% have no knowledge composition, layout, color theory, balance, etc. and are doing half-assed design work for the same price that well studied, experienced designers are charging. I would agree with you that the computer has enabled a lot of people to take the easy route (with minimal software) and bang out crappy work quickly...but there's really nothing you can do about that. Actually, it's kind of great way to pick up new business. Find the companies that are paying for sub-par work, get your work in front of their marketing or advertising vps, and presto....a new client!

Post Edited (casedsgn) : 5/30/2004 8:59:40 PM GMT

[PrintDriver]

wow.
Nicely put, Case.
Comps are only tools. It's the skill of the operator that matters.

I've got almost every single top of the line program at work just to be able to print the stuff you designers send to me but in my hands as a designer all those top of the line programs are just so much crap. Problem is there are people out there who see themselves as designers that don't recognize that fact.

[defjoe]

Nicely said Case and I would like to build on the point you made about how 50% of the 92% know nothing about layout, etc. The computer has allowed alomost everyone that has a computer think that they are a designer. This in turn has made our job harder cause we get countless brochures, etc made in Word and, worse, Publisher. We, the real designers, have to deal with thse piss poor design. Have to deal with the person who did this amazing artwork and deal with their ego. It's aggravating. If your a bookkeeper... DO BOOKKEEPING! Keep out of my area.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[D-Zine]

AMEN JOE!!! AMMMMEEENNNN!!!

And I agree with everyone else, nicely put Case ;o) You will teach Lil Case well...LOL!!

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Who says doodling isn't constructive?!

[casedsgn]

Joe...you hit the nail on the head brother, well put!!
It's the 'just add water' designers out there that seem to be oversaturating the market and missing the point. Not to mention making life a little more difficult for freelance designers.. and making life complete hell for print shops! It's nice that microsoft has added some advanced features to programs like Word and Powerpoint to snazzy up in-house newsletters and presentations.
...but that's ALL they're for.


Lol!
Thanks D-Zine...I think I'll start lil' case (cole) on photoshop first, and we'll work our way up.
/emoticons/smile.gif

[Pagan]

My little corner of the world is being over-run with the same 'Canned-Designers'.
These CMYK challenged cut and paste artists are unfortunately scooping a lot of jobs and as a printer you want the business so you
have to accept their sloppy RGB crap. Sometimes I will spend hours of work of which you will never see any $$$ for, to make their files
printable. After which the customer praises these 'so-called-designers', naturally encouraging them. How do you stop the cycle?
I encounter some designers who don't even know the diffence between Vector and Raster.

http://marianpress.sk.ca/darkoak/darkoak%20graphics/ILIUM%20LOGO.jpg

[bunwhisper]

casedsgn said...
I think the disturbing part is that 50% of that 92.3% have no knowledge composition, layout, color theory, balance, etc. and are doing half-assed design work for the same price that well studied, experienced designers are charging.

Amen brother! These are the people that put web graphics into print layouts; who use foot marks and not apostrophe's; who have no idea what kerning type is or why you shouldn't use Times Roman for everything.

I think some of this is coming from so-called 'design schools'. I've noticed that Southern California has a number of these 'schools' and they promise students the world in their commercials. (They say that graphic design is a high-paying job--on what planet, I'd like to know). I dont know what they teach in these schools but the student work I've seen is sadly lacking. I ran an ad for a junior designer and the resumes were just awful. It seems a real disservice to these students.

Note to young designers looking for a job--your resume is the first piece of design an art director sees. It needs to be a perfect example of excellent design. No typos, no missing fonts, no German blackletter typefaces. /emoticons/blink.gif

[Big Perm-dizzle]

i want to know where this 92.3% figure came from.....kind of an odd number to throw in the air..LOL

JUST LAUNCHED - www.hirethisdesigner.com (http://www.hirethisdesigner.com) - check it out

[uncle carbunkle]

78.3% of all statistics are made up.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is.

[PrintDriver]

hey, I like rgb files.
Just not in Word or Publisher...

I've received a bunch of emailed resumes in the last few weeks. The ones with attached resumes we trash without reading. The ones with typos we trash after reading for amusement, the ones we forward to HR are introductory and list some skills and contact info. If we like what we read in a well written letter we may ask to see more. You young 'uns might want to take note.

uncle carbunkle said...
78.3% of all statistics are made up.

LMAO!!! That is pure comedy my friend.

[uncle carbunkle]

...you know it...


http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/scool.gif

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is.

The problem with Graphic Design is 100% of the work is cosmetic. While programmers face the opposite fate of 100% functionality. This results to an un calculate able figure of 200% which makes no sense as 100% equals the total of any project. So the real problem is with the equation of such a work flow and hence result of designer being mediocre, while programmers move to India.

So now the goal of the Indian Government (besides it’s plan on world domination) is to remedy it’s workforce with 100% of the functionality of any work being done. Which will eventually lead to un operatable computers by designer and then and only then will all designer be forced to doodle on napkins and beg at traffic lights for work.

There sick I tell you, SICK!

If this made no sense just visit the supporting website for information. www.forumbullsh!tpost.com (http://www.forumbullsh!tpost.com)

[bunwhisper]

Amnibo said...
I've thought about teaching a few times, but don't know if teaching is my cup of tea.

I've taught software to individual designers, and its pretty fun! I enjoy seeing the light go on when they 'get it'. Maybe you could sign up to teach a community college class and see if you enjoy it.

[Silence04]

when i went to a 2 year tech school for graphic design during high school they wouldn't let us get on the computers untill our thumbnails and rough comps were approved by the teacher...and i assume its the same in many other schools...
but just remember thats the school's way of teaching you the fundamentals of how to create an idea from scratch and transform it into a Design...they aren't teaching you the exact way everything should be done in the real world.
its kinda like how it was in Math/Algebra Class, You always had to work out each problem on paper and simplify each equation (eventhough you know that '2x+7y+3x=z' is the same as '5x+7y=z')

so i guess what i'm saying is...in the graphic designers world, 'time is money'... so why should a creative/experienced person need to work out the equation if they've already got the answer worked out in their head?


http://www.jdcgraphics.net/banner.gif

[Rocketpig]

defjoe said...
This in turn has made our job harder cause we get countless brochures, etc made in Word and, worse, Publisher.

Publisher!

*runs away, screaming*

Of course you realize that is what all designers have to use to make 120 page 4-color layouts in Hell.

If I was any less productive right now, I'd be comatose.

LMAO!

I new it. I new it!

Did you notice that once Pinky and the Brain where taken off the air they started outsourcing jobs to India.

I have a funny feeling about this.

LMAO! I feel you.

They can make some great food though. Maybe a free lunch everyday isn't so bad.

[uncle carbunkle]

oh dear.... i feel sick.


let me amend that: i love indian food... but the tone if this thread is starting to make me feel very, very queasy.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is.

Post Edited (uncle carbunkle) : 6/2/2004 2:29:30 PM GMT

uncle carbunkle I used to have the same quote as my sig. Thats funny.

Amnibo said...
Indian food is the primary food served in the cafeteria, but it stinks so I haven't tried it yet.

Maybe since I'm hispanic I'm used to stinky food. But it's really good you should try it.

[YellowDart]

I was initially taught on the computer in High School. I learned basic 'canned designer' practice. My first few semesters in a Graphic Design program, I was forced to do thumbs and roughs on paper before I began my layout on the computer. My teacher was very old school, (practiced doing almost everything by hand and on paper before leaving his Art Director position). I got a pretty decent balance of both angles during my education. I prefer doing all my work on a computer now. I find it's just that much easier to start laying things out after a few good doodle-sessions in PS7 or Illustrator.

[Ryan8720]

My designs usually turn out better if I sketch them first.

You can also check defjoe's 'sketch to digital' post in the showcase.

http://edgewebdesign.org/ryan2.gif (http://www.edgewebdesign.org)

C:\DOS
C:\DOS\RUN
RUN DOS RUN

[Rocketpig]

Without fail, my designs turn out better if I sketch them first (though whether I do or not is entirely dependant on my attitude that day).

I have a much easier time visualizing things when I'm working with paper, but I guess that should be expected since I was an illustration major in college, not a graphic designer.

But now I spend about 95% of my time doing print and web design... Sigh...

If I was any less productive right now, I'd be comatose.

[casedsgn]

Sketching is definitley an important part of developing a great solution to any design process. Whether on paper or screen.
I was an illustration major as well Rocketpig...but now I love doodling and sketching on the computer...it's kind of like having a really efficient eraser.
/emoticons/smile.gif

[defjoe]

Magnuus is the king of the sketch design.. he has done A LOT of winners for some GDF members searching for free design.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[PrintDriver]

For a minute there Joe, I read that as 'weiners'
LOL!
Mag sure has done some o' those.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[defjoe]

that is funny PD... cause he has done a few 'killer' weiner designs...si I guess either way you read it... it's a correct statement.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'