I'm wondering-

[PrintDriver]

I've asked this before I think but it's coming round again. Being in a totally different segment of the print/display industry, I'm wondering if I'm confusing people with my observations on color and the use of 3D elements in design and the issues that represents. It seems the majority of you are 'conventional print' graphic designers, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

Yes there is an RGB print process. Will you ever use it? Maybe.

Large (grande) Format Digital inkjet/laser/LED printing has different requirements from separation-type printing. Not many, but a few significant ones. Color, image resolution, image format and linking are a few.

There are other print processes out there and the list of media that can be printed on grows on a daily basis now. Media besides paper.

Color is more of an issue for us, especially across media and between program versions. Those spot colors don't come out of a can in digital. It is possible to have one Illustrator file print the same PMS callout in 4 different shades in digital depending on where the file came from and what you did to it. Not one digital printer machine, even those made by the same company, prints a PMS color the same way as the next. Color management is possible but it is still a long way off from being perfected.

And in exhibit/signage work you add layers of complexity with paint, plastics, vinyls, metals and laminate that few of you work with or even consider when doing a corporate identity package.

There's a lot of noobs on here and I just want em to know where I'm coming from. Not ranting in particular. Yet.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Post Edited (PrintDriver) : 6/2/2004 1:43:25 AM GMT

[Vikia]

I think I know what you mean. I have had art printed large format for trade show signage etc that use entirely different linescreens etc than commercial print.

It is up to the printer to calibrate his printing equipment for the intended output as often as necessary to keep to the color standards that are set for that machine by the manufacturer.

When I worked at a digital prepress house, we calibrated 4 times a day and sometimes more if temperatures changed in the building because even temperature & humidity can affect chemicals and output media.

Since most digital printers print with process colors, it is imperative that calibration is consistent and adheres to a set standard. If this is not done, you will never be assured that you can consistently hit color correctly.

In fact we even calibrated the office color copier daily matching it to a constant color source (kept in a dark drawer when not in use so color stayed constant). Sounds anal, but clients expect colors to match even from the color copier.

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Corporate Communications, Graphics & Design

[D-Frag]

PrintDriver said...


And in exhibit/signage work you add layers of complexity with paint, plastics, vinyls, metals and laminate that few of you work with or even consider when doing a corporate identity package.



Oh right, you mean media like Polyurethane, Polycarbonate, Backlit, Adhesive Backed Vinyl, Vinyl, Static Cling, Lustre Lam, Gloss lam, matte lam, thermal lam, MDO board, Gator, foamcore, matte, gloss, bond, then all the different weights of each....etc. Hehe, its no fair Print cuz me and you have similar backgrounds. I think if I hadn't been a 'finisher' and then moved up in the company I was at last, I would never in a million years no this kind of stuff. But I see where your coming from, and your right, alot of people don't think about this stuff half the time when they design....I even forget alot and do stuff that I shouldn't. I think your a great resource to this community, you know alot about large format and very extensive printing processes and values. Stick around cuz im still learning from you!!!



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[Silence04]

yeah, its def better if you know what your output options are... the final product turns out so much more interesting. Like UV coating on a matte finnish, thats some badass sh!t!





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Yea Print and besides your supposed to confuse the noobs.

I also feel I get alot from your post your a light in a dim place man. Keep on throwing shots from left field if they can't take the heat then get an AC like D-zine did.

[PrintDriver]

Viki - Digital prepress is a little bit different from large format inkjet/lambda. I'll bet you only ran approved papers thru your printers as well as doing all that color management.

Of the highly color managed labs we deal with they only calibrate once a day.
Even the not so highly color managed labs calibrate once a day.

Because calibration takes so long, the high end labs are very limited in the materials they offer to print on because they also have to update all of the ICC profiles. So multiply a place with over 10 printers by over 10 DIFFERENT media (various vinyls and fabrics and papers) and you'll get my drift. And they all still charge for a 'perfect' match.

In a perfect world, those ICC profiles would work, but they don't all the time.

In a perfect world the vendors of the media wouldn't change coatings without notice, overlam vendors would guarantee that their overlams wouldn't color shift your inks, and ink vendors wouldn't change their formulae on a whim.

In custom fabrication we tend to deal with printers who will run anything thru their machines. There are printers out there that will print on anything from nylon sheer fabric to ceiling tiles (tho not necessarily on the same machine). I've yet to see an ICC profile for Home Depot ceiling tiles. These guys will bust their hump to get a color right, it's a matter of pride as they consider it a skill. There are just some colors that can't be hit. Ever.

Digital prepress implies film or plates. In large format there are no films or plates, designers don't have to do separations on their files. Part of my job is to make sure they didn't take an old Illustrator 7 file and update it to Illustrator 10 incorrectly. Or notice they were working in CMYK and realize 'oh damn, lambda prints are RGB' and change the color space by simply clicking on RGB. That does horrific things to color output and they don't know they did it cuz they just don't see the results on their screen.

There are resolution issues and file format issues and tint issues and 'can you match my car's paint color' issues and no metallic ink issues, etc. ad nauseum. Line screen is seldom spoken of. DPI means two different things, image resolution in your files and how much ink my printer spews onto the media. Lambda/Lightjets are continuous tone photo prints.

Now that was a rant.

Thanks guys. I guess maybe I'll stick around a bit more. Confusing noobs can get to be addictive.
;)

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Frag]

HEhe, damn that is just way to much calibrating Vick, seriously, even at the large format shop I worked at, with dual HP6000 we only calibrated 1-2 a month, we had some incredibly good software, and a tech that was a wiz, and we could match a glicee, or a pantone within a tenth of a shade. Not to mention that calibrating 2 large format machines with all the ICC profiles, and matching the RIP monitor takes at least 1-2 hours. Most shops don't have that kind of time, at least not that I know of.



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