Digital Printing vs Off Set Printing

[solcjoye]

This is a request for an explanation in the difference between digital and off set printing. Some questions I have;

What is the heaviest weight stock can I use in both? I want to use 110-120lb but was told with Digital I CANT.

Are the end results with Off Set that much better?

With Digital, I have a continual problem. When I want an invitation (thats what I do) printed, IF I have white in it, Ive got to have it printed on white paper, because with Digital Printing there is no white ink. If I used colored paper the white comes out the color of the paper. SO, thenbecause I dont want the invite to look odd with a bright white back and a color front, Ive got to have the BACK of the invite printed with a solid color to match the dominant color on the front (Hopefully this makes sense so far). So basically my printing costs just got doubled. I have looked for paper that would be a solution to this. I forget its exact name, maybe Duotone paper, white on one side/color on the reverse. But that paper is both too expensive (Printing on the back of the white ends up being cheaper), AND it is too heavy a stock (110lb or 120lb I believe) to be printed on a digital printer. And I do not have a resource to use offset printing because my number of prints are too small (100-200 usually)... Solution?

I also had some work recently that I sent to my local printer to get worked on. He told me that I could NOT have a border around the work because when it gets printed (Im assuming its sheet fed) it could get thrown off a little bit, and the border might come out skewed when cut etc. He said it didnt matter how much bleed I put on it, that would not change, so I cannot have a border on any of the work ever? Would going to offset change this?

Im basically getting really frustrated with the local printing option. It doesnt seem online is MUCH better. I like trying to support the small local guy, but it seems Im outgrowing him. Im not sure what options I have.

He said that going offset would take 2-3 weeks to get anything back (Not a HUGE deal, but a still sucks) and that it would cost 400-500 MINIMUM for any offset printing work I wanted done? That would force the cost of my work to double. Is the printing THAT much better?

Thanks for those that know any of these answers!

-S.

[Kool]

solcjoye said...
This is a request for an explanation in the difference between digital and off set printing. Some questions I have;


What is the heaviest weight stock can I use in both? I want to use 110-120lb but was told with Digital I CANT.



Are the end results with Off Set that much better?

Digital presses are getting better but the real good ones are $300,000 and out of reach for most small shops. The advantage too offset is that you get a consistant look throughout the run. Borders and bleeds are no problem for a well equiped shop.

solcjoye said...
With Digital, I have a continual problem. When I want an invitation (thats what I do) printed, IF I have white in it, Ive got to have it printed on white paper, because with Digital Printing there is no white ink.

Keyare has a can of white ink or so he would have us believe.

solcjoye said...
He said that going offset would take 2-3 weeks to get anything back (Not a HUGE deal, but a still sucks) and that it would cost 400-500 MINIMUM for any offset printing work I wanted done? That would force the cost of my work to double. Is the printing THAT much better?

These numbers are pretty outrageus, that's way too long and pretty damned expensive even at small quatities. If that link I gave you doesn't work I would find another printer.

http://home.comcast.net/~rnick9/KoolsSig.gif

'I used to be with it. But then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me.' Abraham Simpson

[D-Frag]

Sol, for running offset, try some small run shops, there should be plenty around for you to have your pick. And 2-3 weeks is stupid, ive never heard of that, my advice is start trying to find other resources. What state or country are you in? I can give you some referells to some small run shops here, only problem is trying to color proof. Good luck.



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[PrintDriver]

Pick me up off the floor and dust me off! I'm marvelling at the existance of this designer who understands the concept of no white ink in digital and even described it correctly in respect to paper!
Wow!

Solcjoye-good luck in your quest. Kool's advice is always excellent when it comes to offset.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Keyare]

That paper is called a duplex. Two kinds of paper glued together.

$400-500 doesn't sound expensive at all for a 4 colour offset job. Digital or not.

'Digital Printing' is a pretty broad term and gets misused a lot. Heck - I make my plates from the computer and slap em on a n old 360 - i guess i could call that 'digital Printing' just to get people to call me and I wouldn't be lying.

Try to be more specific as to the type of technology used in this 'Digital Printing' There's Laser, Offset, Inkjet and even a Riso is now 'digital printing'

A laser will usually be the one that won't allow anything thicker than 110 Lb paper. Colour copiers offer the lowest quality, cheapest pices in small quantities, usually terrible colour shifts and limited paper stocks. A laser PRINTER should do your projects perfectly. They can usually run thicker stocks and get colour accuracies that you need.

Offsett has the highest setup costs as you have to make 4 plates. (whether they're made using negatives or Direct imaged on the press really only saves time - not money) There's digital offset and traditional offset - same machine basically, the plates are just different. You can print on pretty much any stock you want.

Inkjet - well, you shouldn't be printing more than 20 of anything on an inkjet. Very limited paper stock.

Riso - A hAAA HA HA HAHA - don't even go there. It's like printing with an ink pad and a potato.

There's also an HP/indigo press which uses electrostatic inks and plates and is about the same quality as a cheap 4 colour offset. REALLY fast turn around time but rediculous supply costs and get this - proprietary paper stock. Ha ha haaa...




Yup - I gots me a can of white ink. I found white TONER too! 'Course I just need to find a use for it...

[D-Zine]

Guys...I have learned alot here today myself in this thread, so thanks ;o)

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Who says doodling isn't constructive?!

[PrintDriver]

Thanks Keyare. Useful info.
LMAO at the potato and inkpad, too.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Keyare]

Ouch - I read my post again and it's still misleading - maybe me and kool should work together on a "what's printing" kind of post because we should really cover the benifits of each kind of printing technology and different kinds of presses too. WE should go into web presses and debunk some of the "digital printing" mythos because people could could get mislead believing that "digital printing" is actually an informative term... I've seen hack shops with a $100 inkjet advertise "digital printing", I've seen shops with a $30,000 Canon copier advertise "digital printing", I've seen companies with a Heidelberg GTO DI advertise "digital printing" and they are NOT all created equal.

[D-Zine]

This is odd but I when I was in the shower this morning I was actually thinking of this friggin thread - I have NO idea why...LOL!

But Keyare if you and Kool collabortated and posting some info on this I am sure it would be really helpful to alot of people.

Oh and I too was LMFAO @ the potatoe and the ink pad...hahhaa ;o) Too funny!

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Who says doodling isn't constructive?!

[defjoe]

Now i'm thinking of you in the shower.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

So the only real Digital Press is the HP Indigo, correct?

Also you wouldn't believe they were selling one on Ebay about a year ago and it was only up to 18K. Man I should have snapped it up.

I would love to get something like the HP Indigo. I've seen the quality and it's pretty good. The only thing is, did you say it only takes in HP paper?

Post Edited (benjo...) : 6/8/2004 1:47:11 PM GMT

[D-Zine]

HAHAHAHA..LOL @ Joe!! ;o)

No Joe...no no no this thread MUST stay on the subject of PRINTING!!

I only say that because they don't teach crap about printing in school and people need to learn whatever they can wherever they can about it so they understand it better and don't look like idiots when they go and get something printed - HAHA!!

Otherwise we could turn this thread like we do every other one! LOL!

So..Keyare, Kool, PD and anyone else..carry on ;o)

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Who says doodling isn't constructive?!

[defjoe]

I just had ot say it... but I agree.. Talk printing people *sigh*

I worked for a digital Printer before. A Xerox...was cool. the end product was nice and vibrant. I think the overhead and up keep of the printer was too much. Eventually he went out of business (after I had left).

But it was nice seeing that quick turn around.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'