Advice needed for artwork setup for billboard

[Trudy]

Hi there. This question is for those that have made billboard artwork for printers.


I am currently doing my first billboardfor a long term print and web client and have hit a wall.
Did lots of initial research on sound design principles for billboard marketing and got the print requirements from the printer. They want a 150 dpi file, 5940mm x 2940mm.
Sounds fair enough, but when I try to set up a file this big in Photoshop, it doesn't want to play. I have found in Help files that "Photoshop supports a maximum file size of 2 GB and maximum pixel dimensions of 30,000 by 30,000 pixels per image. This restriction places limits on the print size and resolution available to an image." Maybe my file would be outside of this?

So I try Illustrator. I set resolution to 150dpi and try to set up file in cm's - 594 x 294 (I am in Australia, we work with centimetres rather than inches). Again, I get a error message saying "The value must be between 5.08cm and 577.95cm"
I did some reading in Illustrator help files, and it did say that page size is set by printer's capabilities, so I set up Print Setup to PostScript Custom Page size. Still, it made no difference.

Now to get to my question - has anyone had any experience with setting up artwork in custom sizes for billboards?? If so, do you use Photoshop or Illustrator? If you do, does it handle files that need to print this large?? Any advice would be appreciated ... maybe there is another way to skin the proverbial cat that I havent thought of yet.

Thanks,
Trudy M

[Allen Harkleroad]

i do BB's in CorelDRAW or i use photoshop or illustrator and do a smaller scaled down version. I would call the printer and see what they want in terms of format, i have found CorelDRAW to be very accomdating in terms of very large format requirements, and most BB and vinyl cutter/printers will accept CorelDRAW files.

See attached picture, the top BB i did in CorelDRAW. Don't laugh to hard at the design, that is EXACTLY what the client wanted.

The hotel picture onthe left was taken with a Canon Digital Rebel (D30) and a regular lens, it scaled very well to 12ft <g>

Allen














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Post Edited (Allen H) : 6/8/2004 6:49:53 AM GMT

[Keyare]

This is a job for PrintDriver!

[Allen Harkleroad]

Yup, he knows this large format stuff very well.


Allen "the infinitely frustrated" Harkleroad
"I live in my own little world. But it's OK. They know me here."

Get inside my head at www.DontFear.com (http://www.DontFear.com)

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Have Frontier or CitizensDSL or Dial-up? Does your service suck?
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[Trudy]

Format wise, printer said Illustrator or photoshop files are ok. I am wondering if they actually get any from designers though!


I have always been an Illustrator user, rather than Corel... I guess it is just what you know. If I have to use Corel,are Tiff files the way to go for all imported photographs or bitmap content??


Thanks for posting your billboard Allen. I have found out that billboard design can be pretty tricky (suprised to find this out!) when you have to keep it SOOO simple and keep client happy.Attached is my artwork. My brief was to be eye-catching (duh!),appeal tofamilies, and give the 5km direction. With an 6-8 second timeframe for viewing, there's not a lot you can do!


PrintDriver is the large format expert hey? http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/worshippy.gif
Hopefully he may be able to help.http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/smile.gif

[Trudy]

Just to add something that has been bothering me about the resolution for billboards...


150 dpi sounds quite high for a billboard. I am wondering if I was given the wrong info by the printer. When reading about dpi for billboards tonight, many websites said billboard artworkonly has to be15 - 30 ppi. Does this sound right to anyone here with experience with billboards?


I will ring printer again in the morning and double check ... but if I only have to work with much lower res, then Photoshop could handle this job! Fingers crossed.


t.

[Allen Harkleroad]

Cool board! Makes me want to go out to our Savannah Beach for the day! If the alow scaled (25% of size) make sure you caculate the bleed properly (i learned that the hard way). There is a way in Illustrator to do larger format, i can't remember the setting but i am sure PrintDriver can remind me <g>

Allen





Allen "the infinitely frustrated" Harkleroad
"I live in my own little world. But it's OK. They know me here."

Get inside my head at www.DontFear.com (http://www.DontFear.com)

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Have Frontier or CitizensDSL or Dial-up? Does your service suck?
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[PrintDriver]

I'm sorry, just woke up.
Uh, 150dpi at that size sounds incredibly wrong for a billboard. Billboards are usually printed at <gasp> under 30dpi.

Photoshop CS doesn't have a file size limit so I guess you aren't using that. If you are, ask the printer if he accepts .psb files cuz that's the format you will have to work in (a lot of my guys charge a premium for a file done in .psb. They say it stands for PhotoShop Bloated format).

You can work in Illustrator at 1/2 scale or 1/4 scale or in 1' = 1' (or the Australian scale equivalent). The image can be output using a scaling factor in the rip. So if you send the file at 1/2 scale, specify to the printer to output the file at 200%, etc. If the billboard is all Vector you have nothing to worry about. The problem will be any images you use. If you have a full image that covers that whole dimension...well... And remember, image resolution is determined by final size, not the size it is in the scaled Illy file.

Call the printer back and verify the image resolution. While you're at it you may want to ask how much bleed they would like all around. Here, some printed billboards are stretched as a single sheet and sometimes require as much as 6' all around to wrap the design to the back of the sign board.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Trudy]

Thanks for info. This helps alot, as I am not understanding the language the printer speaks. I rang again, and they just went blank when I mentioned dpi - this time when I asked, they went quiet and after a pause said 5000?!?!Huh?


They said to supply a vector eps, which makes sense, so I guess they dont often get the whole thing as a raster file.I am a little concerned as you can see from the file I attached above - there is alot of photographic content there. We discussed supplying vector text and all the raster stuff in background seperately. Is this the way it is done?


I am planning on following your advice and setting up file to print at 30dpi.


They said there was no bleed. Its vinyl. Do all vinyls use a bleed?


The last thing that confused even more was they want the text in CYMK, and photos in RGB. Huh again. I'll just supply as requested, but this makes little sense to me. Maybe it is to do with the software they use to set it up for print.


Although I am fumbling in the dark right now, I do like doing artwork for new formats. It's good to learn new stuff.


Thanks again.

[PrintDriver]

Trudy, the print company sounds like it just got its hands on a printer.
I would be curious to know which type of printer and how wide. They could be doing this a number of different ways. Did they tell you it was seamless?

If they don't know the dpi they need and ask that your image be only vector eps that is somewhat worrisome.

All murals need some kind of bleed cuz a) you will never get exact dimensions on any billboard and b) the vinyl doesn't always track correctly in the length dimension and may end up shorter than intended by as much as 1 or 2 inches. This is standard acceptible shrinkage. Can't be helped. You want to be real careful about running important elements of your design all the way to the edges. Borders suck too (which you don't have). Installers hate em.

As for the RGB images, yes that is happening more and more. Some of the color management programs in use by large format people need to have the images in RGB so the correct CMYK formula can be applied to them when the print media is chosen. The Illustrator file should be set up in CMYK with RGB images linked. DO NOT EMBED YOUR IMAGES in your Illy file. They can't color correct them if you do.

I would recommend giving them at least 4' to 6' of bleed and clearly mark the live area in the file in a separate layer or with crops and clearly mark it on the hard copy.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Post Edited (PrintDriver) : 6/10/2004 11:39:53 AM GMT

[Trudy]

Thanks so much.
I'll do what you have suggested. It's so good to have these specs explained to me. The printer was very hesitant to go into any more detail than "just supply a vector eps".

When you say be careful about running elements all around edges, do you mean using the photograph in the way I have? Is it better to keep elements away from edge in case of shrinkage? bugger ... wish i knew that before.

thanks again.
t.

[PrintDriver]

No no, you want the photo to actually bleed over the edge if you can. I was thinking like having that arrow point touching at the top and the web address really close to the bottom. With one piece vinyl billboards you may get 'shrink' from side to side rather than top to bottom. If it is a welded together multipiece vinyl billboard you will get shrink top to bottom. That's why I asked. I think you will be okay either way. Hopefully your vendor won't let you fall to the dogs. They should take care of you and your file and make every effort to print it correctly and pleasingly. Should anyway.

And you don't have a border or frame element in the piece. Sux to try to get borders or frames even when installing. I hate em on small graphic panels too.

Some print vendors think they are giving away trade secrets if they answer your questions. That's usually a good indication to look elsewhere next time.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Trudy]

I was just looking at it thinking I might move that arrow top down and web address up, just to be safe. THen you posted about it. ;-p


I dont plan on using this printer again, or even doing billboards again ...will wait to see how this turns out. My client picked this printer(who happens to be located 2000km away), and now I am really appreciating the great relationship I have with my local print company.


I am going to really stress that if the quality is going to be crap, I want to reapproach the design. Don't want to compromise on the final quality.


t.

[PrintDriver]

It just occured to me...
Is the printer installing the image?

Be absolutely sure everyone knows what your crops mean. If they mean live area of the image, the installer may still need extra image to install. You should know what that is. Tell the printer to rough trim the piece or trim to color NOT crops or you will get a nice face sized piece and no means of attachment.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Frag]

haha, wow i just read this, damn 150dpi.....wow, the billboards ive seen close up the dots are like the size of nickles.




http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/13115/killer_cartoon.gif

[Trudy]

i just LOVE that animation D-Frag!

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/specool.gif

[Trudy]

artwork is sent. i REALLY hope it this isn't one of those rare and nasty jobs that drag out.


i used illustrator. set up the file at1/4 of the final output. told them to output at 400%.


i was really careful with the .tiff file. kept it as a linked rgb, and set it up at 120 dpi at 1/4 scale. i hope my maths is right (yeah, im one of those artistic types with no trace of logical ability) - this means the final output of the .tiff/raster file will be 30 dpi once the printer scales it to 100%.


all text are outlines, and are in cmyk. apart from the beach image in background, everything else is a vector.


sent .ai and .eps files.


i didnt set upa bleed, as he said on three occassions, no bleed. but we will see how it goes ... (?!) from what you are saying PrintDriver, its gotta have a bleed.


im pretty sure they aren't installing it, since they are in sydney, and im in a different state. i asked them, but they didn't get back to me.


if i get a call in the next 48 hours saying theres a prob - i'll be back here posting!! http://graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/icon_eek.gif