Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Flier / hand-bill for PC fix-it guy.
Network_Ned
10-30-2005, 09:12 AM
Hi there,
I've just got flamed on another forum over this artwork, so I hope you'll forgive me for asking here for a second opinion.
The artwork is a flier (do they call 'em "handbills" in the USA?) for a self-employed PC fix-it guy, to be printed on A6 glossy postcards and dropped through residential letterboxes. Target market is computers in peoples' home studies, the self-employed & those with their own businesses (of two to a dozen computers).
It's probably worth mentioning that I get VERY cheap printing on 2-colours, so that's pretty much a constraint. I wanted the design to convey "friendly & approachable" rather than "IT geek who'll bamboozle you with jargon". Although I'm not sure if I could do elegant & sophisticated design, the whole point is that I don't want to convey an expensive or "high end" image if that'll discourage people from calling me.
I found it quite hard to fit all that I wanted to say in the limited space of this card but I'm very pleased with bullets and the headline message - cards like this get glanced at for about one and a half seconds on their way to the trash, so that's all the time you get to make a sales pitch.
http://networkned.co.uk/Flier_A6.gif
Full disclosure is that I'm not a designer (or if I am then I'm a "self-taught" one) but that this artwork has been in use very successfully for some time - I've been pleased to find people have retained these cards for a year or more before calling me. What I thought was deliberately simple was described by my detractor as "amateur, slapdash and as though it has been done by a friend of a friend with a CSE in art. In short; on the cheap". Obviously I'm hoping that someone will massage my battered ego here, but it's also important that I get as many opinions as possible - I don't want to be ignoring criticism because I can justify it as "just some isolated guy being mean" (or not understanding my work). If there's agreement on the subject then I've got no excuse but to improve it. Do I need to start again from scratch?
One criticism levelled was that "You have no understanding of how to make typography say the right things about you and your business", yet I chose those typefaces quite deliberately, intending them to convey friendliness & approachability. I've read the Ban Comic Sans website (http://bancomicsans.com/home.html) and I thought I was different. :( Was I really so misguided?
GreenThumb
10-30-2005, 06:24 PM
I like your font choiced (VAG rounded?) but there is a LOT of information on that little flyer.......I would remove the "Does your computer?" part of it on the mid right and center the info on the left.
In general, I like the feel of it but the content overwhelms me.
I agree with GreenThumb.^^^
I have no problem with this design. It's not going to rock the design world by any means but it's fine for a postcard. Every design doesn't have to be a work of art.
sprout
10-31-2005, 04:52 AM
You can run, but you can't hide :-)
How surprised was I to see you here too?
Ned. I must apologise, I am afraid you have taken what I said completely the wrong way. I never intended to bruise your ego. I was not simply being mean and I certainly did not flame you. You presented your flyer and asked for honest opinions.
If you post on a design forum, there is a fair chance that you are going to get strong opinions. By nature, many of us are obsessive-complusive and always strive for the best in every area.
As I said before, it depends what you want it to do. If it works for you, then great. Job done. However, my point was, that I feel that you may well be hindered by it if you wish to expand into corporate markets. It does not make you stand out from the crowd and does not make you appear more skilled/efficient/whatever-your-core-skills-are, than the next 'pc doc'. I am left with a sense that I know what you do, but not how well you do it. The overfilled layout looks confusing and unfocussed. It could be applied to almost any repair business. Change the text a bit – "have you got a washing machine problem?". It is not bespoke to your business. Your business is unique. What you say about it isn't. You see what I am getting at? All these subtle details are the subliminal messages people read in addition to the words on the page. I imagine that you would want people to assume you are efficent, skilled, trustworthy, etc…
…Oh damn, here I go again; back on my soapbox!!
Anyway, simply, it is all about clear and effective communication.
That said, the bottom line is that it works for you, so why are you overly concerned? If, as you said the other day, you are getting plenty of business from it, then why worry? When, and if, you find it doesn't work, or that people are assuming your business is one thing when it is not, then think about changing it. If you want to expand and find that you are not being taken seriously in a corporate playground, then change it. If you are happy and making enough money, then all's well.
Finally, please don't take what I have said personally. After all, it is not a painting – your soul laid bare. It is simply a tool to aid your business, which will either work, or it won't. Again, I apologise if I came across as punitive. It was never my intention. I was simply giving you the professional opinion you sought.
Good luck
Keith
GreenThumb
10-31-2005, 07:53 AM
Ive said it before and I will say it again.....I am a HUGE fan of functional design...yes, you can make a flyer look amazing with tones and gradients that will win accolades all around the world but if it lacks information, you will fail....miserably.
I think if you reduce the clutter of information on there, you will have a clean flyer that is functional.
sprout
10-31-2005, 07:57 AM
I am completely with you. If there is not a reason for doing something, then don't do it.
However, I have to beg to differ on one point; You normally, can't make something look good with tones and gradients. They just cheapen and hinder communication.
sprout
10-31-2005, 08:04 AM
BTW
I just looked at the blog on your site and I love the bad logos bit. Just plain scary.
Fantastic.
Skyler
10-31-2005, 08:23 AM
Look--if the design keeps customers coming I believe that's called a 'perrenial' in the catalog world. Meaning that like a shot of an apple that is appetizing to everyone-- great design will continue selling year after year. Don't change it, just improve it.
hey at least you didn't use this :
*and that is the friendliest bipedal computer i've ever seen :)
LeeIs
11-01-2005, 08:06 AM
Network_Ned,
First I'll agree that you need to simplify it a bit. How about using one family of fonts? Don't get me wrong you can use all the weights possible as in Heavy, bold, regular, light, condensed etc. which will give the appearance of varying thickness and impact and focus on certain words but will also appear easier on the eyes to read.
Take away some of the info, it's a bit too much IMO. Otherwise you're doing well and I like the direction of your flyer.
One more thing that you need is Contrast!! You got black type on a white card for the most part there and that just washes everything together. I'm attaching a variation of your flyer below and all I did was to reverse a couple of areas. That's right I haven't moved anything about at all just addes some contrast and a little focus.
http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/9381/fliera61jm.jpg
You see how adding a bit of contrast can aid in your design?
Anyways, I liked your original as well and even though I'm "new" to this forum I would suggest that critiques else where stay else where. No need for some one to say things like "you can run but you can't hide". If you (sprout) already offered your critique else where and he read it why do you feel to critique him again here?
Do you wanna show us all how great you are? I don't get it. He didn't think your critique was a good one, I don't see a need to follow him around. Just my opinion.
sprout
11-01-2005, 09:40 AM
Quite simply because he seemed to take my original comments the wrong way and then came to his forum quoting some of what I had said out of context. Naturally I was concerned that I had offended him, which was never my intention, so to redress the balance I tried to clarify.
As for "you can run but you can't hide". Try not to read the worst into things. It was meant to be humourous. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that I was being sarcastic. I didn't assume for a second that anyone would take it seriously.
"Do you want to show us how great you are" I spend time here and at places like this because maybe I can learn something and hopefully be able to give something back. It is certainly not for the reasons you are trying to project. My ego is not quite that fragile, I'm afrad.
hey LeeIs i love your redo of the design. Its amazing what a bit of contrast can do.
LeeIs
11-01-2005, 09:18 PM
hey LeeIs i love your redo of the design. Its amazing what a bit of contrast can do.
Thnx cjoe. Yes it is indeed amazing how contrast works to improve work. Whether its a contrast of colours, shapes, size or font weight.
LeeIs
11-01-2005, 09:22 PM
Quite simply because he seemed to take my original comments the wrong way and then came to his forum quoting some of what I had said out of context. Naturally I was concerned that I had offended him, which was never my intention, so to redress the balance I tried to clarify.
As for "you can run but you can't hide". Try not to read the worst into things. It was meant to be humourous. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that I was being sarcastic. I didn't assume for a second that anyone would take it seriously.
"Do you want to show us how great you are" I spend time here and at places like this because maybe I can learn something and hopefully be able to give something back. It is certainly not for the reasons you are trying to project. My ego is not quite that fragile, I'm afrad.
First, I apologize for coming off a bit harsh. But I still stand by the fact that you should've left your criticism to the other board since you've already offered it. He didn't call you by name. He didn't say Sprout said this to me, etc.
Anyways, back to the meat of this argument, his card really works plus he doesn't need an elegent design to appeal to his market audience, he clearly states everything very clearly in his first post (unfortunately might have been his last).
The artwork is a flier for a self-employed PC fix-it guy
Target market is computers in peoples' home studies, the self-employed & those with their own businesses
I wanted the design to convey "friendly & approachable"
Although I'm not sure if I could do elegant & sophisticated design, the whole point is that I don't want to convey an expensive or "high end" image if that'll discourage people from calling me.
Is this guy right on or what? He knows exactly what he wants and it's working for him. He probably only needed some suggestion on how to make work a bit better rather than telling him to rethink everything. I think he knows what he needs more than any of us.
If he said he was trying to land a contract with microsoft than I would've told him to take a different approach as well.
PersonasBinar
11-01-2005, 09:30 PM
Good on you Network ..... you looked at your target and nailed it...... that's exactly what I would find in my postbox
Design aside ...
Ned, since I am your target audience (self-employed computer user), I can tell you that this postcard would appeal to me.
If I need computer repair, I want to know that the person I hire has the skills I'm looking for, that they're fast, that they're convenient, and that they are friendly. I think you've conveyed this.
But mostly, what's important to me is that they are FAIR. I've run into too many people in my day that use the power of knowledge to take advantage of customers. I know people in my own line of work (web development) that do this -- I have quite a few clients that have come to me after being bamboozled. Just something to think about.
As for the design, it does need a little contrast. The *reason* it needs contrast is that the heirarchy of information is not as strong as it COULD be.
There are parts of this card that could be toned down a bit so that other parts can shout a little louder.
You have two stylized fonts -- consider using one, and then using something really plain for the other (i.e. keep the vag rounded for your headline and your business name) and use something like Arial or Helvetica and variations of that for the rest.
Nothing will stand out if everything stands out.
Along those lines, think about your use of contrast with text color. One thing that I think WOULD be important, is to give your business name a different color so that it stands apart from the rest.
Just a freeflow of thoughts, best of luck to you! :)
GreenThumb
11-01-2005, 10:55 PM
However, I have to beg to differ on one point; You normally, can't make something look good with tones and gradients. They just cheapen and hinder communication.
Of course you can....almost every good ad uses very subtle, tastefully made gradients.
I ALWAYS make stuff look tons better with experimenting with color tones as well..I think you wetre referring to the very obvious gradients, dropshadows and bursts.
I meant something on an extremely subtle,subliminal level.
PrintDriver
11-01-2005, 11:29 PM
hello, bit of contrast adds a THIRD color.
He prints 2 color.
Read the specs.
Why does contrast = third color?
oh. I thought that was pertaining to my post. I was more thinking of minimizing a few things and using the blue as a punch of color in more important spots.
hello, bit of contrast adds a THIRD color.
He prints 2 color.
Read the specs.
i think it was more just to show the posibilities of contrast. The most noticable, and most important change was inverting his black type and having a blackspace around it. The orange type could just be made white. No biggy.
And also -- forgive this web designer if I've misunderstood the meaning of 2 color ... but isn't it possible to use a % of the SAME color to provide contrast? (I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know my shit in this regard. I always ask stupid questions about anything pertaining to print.)
JaCkinbOx
11-02-2005, 03:32 AM
I have just one thing I want to say right now: I'm not digging the slogan. "Your PC Plumber!"? Plumbers are people we all generally hate. I think it's a bad idea to equate a respectable service with plumbers. We call plumbers as a last resort because they're typically smelly, have horrible hygiene, charge too much, are lazy, cocky, and exude no professional image.
Just nitpicking. Something to consider.
And also -- forgive this web designer if I've misunderstood the meaning of 2 color ...
Nope you're spot on ;)
I have just one thing I want to say right now: I'm not digging the slogan. "Your PC Plumber!"? Plumbers are people we all generally hate. I think it's a bad idea to equate a respectable service with plumbers. We call plumbers as a last resort because they're typically smelly, have horrible hygiene, charge too much, are lazy, cocky, and exude no professional image.
Just nitpicking. Something to consider.
your plumber must be really bad.
I don't think plumber is a bad analogy to use; 1) its aliterrattive P___ P___ 2) most plumbers are not your stereotypical seedy character. They actually provide an essential service.
JaCkinbOx
11-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Worth considering a live next to a significantly redneck town, probably.
Network_Ned
11-07-2005, 02:10 AM
Sorry to take so long to get back to this thread - I've not been avoiding you all, I've just been busy & distracted for the last few days. I'm very grateful for all the replies but the trouble with so many is that I can too easily say "I can't reply to all those right now!". I'm going to respond in this single message to everyone who's so kindly posted and apologise to those I've missed out - all your replies have been great!
GreenThumb: thanks for the positive comments. I remember being struck by the professionalism of one of your replies to someone else when I was perusing these forums originally, so I'm pleased to get a bit of a "thumbs up" from you. One of the replies on the other forum (http://www.designers-network.com/forum_entry.php?id=5767) mentioned the flier's clutter, so I'll surely be taking your advice to drop the "Does your computer?" part of it on the mid-right. Since this allows extra space for the "ADSL Broadband" bullet to go on a single line, I can probably put an extra point or two of space between each of those bullets, too! :D
The font is actually "Debussy"; I was thinking of VAG Rounded at the time, but couldn't find it - now that I again have the two to compare I think I like the Debussy more.
sprout: what part of "second opinion" don't you understand? I don't have a problem with your original reply (http://www.designers-network.com/forum_entry.php?id=5764) and I am grateful that you explain your argument more here but my reason for reposting was in order to get as much feedback as possible. I did spend quite a number of hours on this layout when I originally undertook it, so yes, your posting did initially feel like a bit of a slap in the face, but as I responded in the other forum (http://www.designers-network.com/forum_entry.php?id=5764) I can't afford to take stuff like that personally. I'm the first to acknowledge that I have no training in this area and I'm just going by "what looks good to me", so it'd be foolish to let offence at criticism of my bumbling attempts get in the way of improving them. However unskilled & ill-educated in design I am, I am interested to learn and would hope to be able to take advice & make improvements myself, so I thank everyone who's responded with constructive advice. "Not being taken seriously in a corporate playground" is the best complement I can have for what I'm trying to achieve, however.
cjoe: hehe! Funny you should mention that particular piece of clipart - when I did my market research towards setting up my business & seeing who else was doing similar work that image was being used by one of my competitors (.zip file) (http://networkned.co.uk/images/uploads/Competitors.zip). Whilst I wanted to promote a friendly & accessible image, that was exactly the amateurism I wanted to avoid.
LeeIs: wow! Thanks for posting your variation - it really is striking, in a way that I'd really never thought of. It really leaps out at me! I used the two fonts because I was sure I read something once about contrasting typography? About a single font being monotonous? I will have a play about with that when I come to do the redesign (although, due to volume printing, this isn't urgent for me right now) and I'll certainly be reducing the clutter & doing something like the black banners you've suggested. On the subject of Sprout, it's not that I didn't think his critique was valid, but he did shock me into thinking I should get a bunch more opinions; when I searched I found this forum to be more popular than the one on which I posted originally, and full of helpful people (who have not disappointed me).
EC: Thanks to you also (and to Kool, Skyler & PersonasBinar) for your positive comments. I hate wearing suits and keep meeting "IT Consultants" who go for that look; it really tickles me when a business customer comes to me telling me that they're rejecting that because those tyes don't "talk on my wavelength". I'll really have to be stern with myself when I have another crack at this - I'm really fond of that serif italic font!!
JaCkinbOx: Yup, the "PC Plumber" does have its drawbacks - my family & I have put quite a lot of thought & discussion into it. Do the pros & cons balance? I wouldn't be at all averse to dumping "PC Plumber" if I could find something else that said what I wanted as snappily. In the UK plumbers aren't perceived as dirty or unprofessional (methane gas is widely used for water- & central-heating here, so they have to be qualified to a decent standard) but they are seen as expensive and hard-to-get-hold-of. On the other hand, as CJoe notes, I'm a sucker for alliteration and there's also a culture of using plumbing professionals which there isn't yet with computer fix-it guys. There's a public perception that if you have a water leak you call a plumber, he comes out and he fixes it, job done. With computers people tend to tolerate problems and crashes; they moan to their friends about it or get their mate to "have a look at it" but don't know who to call to get it sorted properly - there isn't even a clear section in the Yellow Pages for this kind of service. Round here plumbers are like gold dust, and when you find a good one you're careful never to lose their number.
LeeIs
11-09-2005, 09:01 AM
Glad you've posted again and didn't get turned off by the comments. Like I said before, I thought you were on the right track and don't be too shy to post your new variations or other stuff you come up with.
Good luck.