Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Designing without content = frustrating
Chris79
11-21-2005, 01:45 PM
Maybe it's just me. But does anyone else have a hard time designing a website without having most of the contents of the site?
Perhaps this is a personal flaw that I just need to overcome. But everytime I'm asked to design something and they give me very minimal stuff to work with. (A logo and some navigation button possibilities if I'm lucky) I often find myself stumbling through the design, feeling like I'm walking through a mysterious building in the dark, just waiting to bump into something good.
Whereas when I have stuff to work with, I seem to be able to really assemble it in an orderly and aesthetically pleasing fashion, without having a hundred re-dos!
Is this a common problem? Do I need to gather a new skill set to overcome this?
I apologize if this topic has been discussed already. Please feel free to post links to the previous discussions if applicable.
PersonasBinar
11-21-2005, 01:51 PM
No....it is easier with content, but you will have to get used to designing with nothing. AS you design alot of time the client is trying to figure out what they want to communicate, and it always seems to happen at the same time.
morea
11-21-2005, 01:54 PM
drives me crazy. My boss expects me to do the research, find the images, and then write the copy for anything I "design"... he just gives me a topic. It drives me nuts!
PersonasBinar
11-21-2005, 01:59 PM
Brochure....sink components. comp in an hour... GET OUT OF MY OFFICE!!!!!.....lol
Drorain
11-21-2005, 02:01 PM
for a print piece...at vista (former employer)...I would not even start the design until content was provided. Their three day turnaround policy was only applicable if people gave the information needed..although even then I ignored that deadline :p
The client needs to invest some time into the porject. And if they arent submitting content, then I would provide that they need to pay something up front...prolly 50% for the work to start because they need to invest something (Time or money) into the project development. Otherwise they don't seem excited...and I am not excited, so it falls by the wayside.
Of course its different if your an inhouse designer and your 'client' is the boss. This makes for more stressful conditions as morea described. At this point you really dont have a choice
morea
11-21-2005, 02:07 PM
Drorain, your signature offends me. Not the Thanksgiving and Xmas part, but the fact that it seems to be wiggling at me... :p
Eraser Nubbin
11-21-2005, 02:21 PM
I like it when I am in charge of the content as well, that way you can tailor everything to fit the nicely laid out areas you have created. On the other hand that's probably a lazy designers point of view as you don't have to address a lot of the problems that you have to figure out when the client gives you three pages of text to fit in a single paragraph area.
Chris79
11-21-2005, 03:49 PM
I like it when I am in charge of the content as well, that way you can tailor everything to fit the nicely laid out areas you have created. On the other hand that's probably a lazy designers point of view as you don't have to address a lot of the problems that you have to figure out when the client gives you three pages of text to fit in a single paragraph area.
I wouldn't mind it if I were actually in charge of the content and I could choose exactly what to put on the pages. But I'm not. Many times the client wants to be in complete control of the content, but they haven't figured out what they want. Or if they have figured it out, they haven't written it yet and aren't in much hurry to give it to me.
Chris79
11-21-2005, 03:51 PM
drives me crazy. My boss expects me to do the research, find the images, and then write the copy for anything I "design"... he just gives me a topic. It drives me nuts!
Same here when I do in-house stuff. Sometimes they're nice to me and give some text to start with though :) So I won't complain too much.
Chris79
11-21-2005, 03:54 PM
No....it is easier with content, but you will have to get used to designing with nothing. AS you design alot of time the client is trying to figure out what they want to communicate, and it always seems to happen at the same time.
Yes, I've managed to find my way through many-a-website where I've had no more to go on than a .jpg logo file. It just doesn't go very smoothly... it feels like a bumpy ride! Sometimes I don't feel 100% great about it in the end, either, which really frustrates me. But sometimes it turns out superbly. Just depends on who's in charge of the project on their end, I think. And how willing to give me feedback and flexible they are.
Neballer
11-21-2005, 04:52 PM
content? what the heck is that? :D
PersonasBinar
11-21-2005, 05:13 PM
those nasty words and images that the client wants to mess with my nice design with. lol
Chris79
11-21-2005, 05:16 PM
those nasty words and images that the client wants to mess with my nice design with. lol
LMAO... I swear some of them really shouldn't have even bothered to hire a designer. All I do is push the computer buttons! "Make this red, and this blue, and the buttons will be rounded not squared, and they'll be pink!" Ack! Haha
Chris79, do you ever use content management systems to build sites? It's the only way I will work anymore, even if it's a simple 1 page website. I do my part, train the client if necessary, toss over the keys and let them drive.
All I really discuss with clients in the beginning stages are their goals for the site; I ask them to provide me with any images they want included and a site outline.
Nobody ever blames me for holding up the project (you KNOW there are clients that blame the designer in all cases -- even when it is their fault for not creating the content!) and I get paid on time. I will never go back to creating html sites where I am responsible for inserting the content. I tell potential clients that I build TOOLS for them to communicate, but the communicating is up to them.
Design and content separated = good thing.
I have a handful of clients that still aren't using the sites I've built them. They realize that it's entirely, 100% their fault (I do bug them, "hey, when you gonna launch your site?!!) -- but they STILL haven't gotten around to completing the content. In these situations, my part is completed -- so it's all on them now. Sad, but I've seen it far too many times ... people want websites, but they will never understand that the designer is only responsible for one small piece of what that means.
It's like selling them a telephone -- you can't make the calls for them. lol
TheBluePanda
11-21-2005, 05:35 PM
The last web design job I had was a company that had their own content management system. So most of the time I would create the template, and the client (or another staff member) would imput the content. So that way I would dodge the tedious task of working with their often horrible content.
Chris79
11-21-2005, 05:39 PM
Yes, in fact we do a LOT of content managed sites here. That's how I ever got started designing without content at all. But most of the time, the clients expect us to help them get started with the content and arrange it how we think it'd look best. (Then they go in and change it all... LMAO)
Yes, in fact we do a LOT of content managed sites here. That's how I ever got started designing without content at all. But most of the time, the clients expect us to help them get started with the content and arrange it how we think it'd look best. (Then they go in and change it all... LMAO)
Well, I have my own website and I'll just say that I'm glad I'm a web designer -- because I change the content around all the time. That's the beauty of a website. It's not static like a print campaign, which is one reason why I prefer it.
That said, it's really not that much of a hassle once the structure is in place -- changing content is so easy! Unless a client needs to add a new section or something, I'm rarely asked to make modifications after it's built out for them.