Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : lets talk holiday marketing...
Drorain
11-28-2005, 07:29 PM
look at my sig...the infor I quote is paraphrased from bill orielly...now consider this and discuss...
__________________________________________________ ______________
My thoughts...
i think its bad marketing personally, to many people christmas isnt the 'religious' holiday people claim it to be, for most people its a tradition of trees/holly/gifts
so them taking out the holiday theme is all bull-crap and counter-productive marketing. By accepting the views of...9% (i think) of people that dont celebrate it, they are alienating the rest of the people.
Dont try and get me shopping for a holiday your afraid to mention, I will go out of my way not to give you business...in fact I will not be going to macy's filenes or any 'federated store' for my holiday shopping
morea
11-28-2005, 07:34 PM
Dont try and get me shopping for a holiday your afraid to mention
I am one of the 9%, so I don't care either way... but this is an excellent point!
keith1
11-28-2005, 07:50 PM
I hear ya Drorain! Everyone is too damned politically correct in this country. Do you think I'd get offended if I lived in India they were celebrating and promoting an Indian or Hindu holiday? No, I'd realize that I am the minority and deal with it, maybe even learn a little bit about it. I hate sensitive people!!! I don't push my religion on anyone and people shouldn't push their's on me. We should take pride in what we believe and learn about other cultures and appreciate/respect their beliefs. Or we can just be narrow minded dimwits until the world wide melting pot becomes one and we all look the same and believe the same thing and there is no diversity. Sounds exciting.. huh?
PersonasBinar
11-28-2005, 07:59 PM
As long as there are somosas, I don't care. Political correctness is as mindless and stupid as religious zealotry. To not use Christmas in your marketing in America and Canada, unless your selling to another specific group, is suicidal.
We had the same thing happen where a couple classes in grade school cancelled Holloween parties because of a couple hindu children. I would think they would be prefectly fine learning about someone else's traditions. Considering it's a pagan tradition, I think North America has gotten some serios mileage out of it.
I love learning about different religions and ethnic groups. AND THEIR FOOD!!!! CELEBRATE THE FACT WE ARE DIFFERENT!!!!
morea
11-28-2005, 08:03 PM
especially their food. Mmm. ;)
colonel5
11-28-2005, 08:32 PM
i like food
PersonasBinar
11-28-2005, 08:36 PM
See if we would show up somewhere with a big dish of our favorite food instead of an Apache Attack Helicopter we'dd be much better off.
morea
11-28-2005, 09:39 PM
agreed! Visualize whirled peas. ;)
PersonasBinar
11-28-2005, 09:58 PM
I'll bring my chicken shnitzel, family recipe from Germany.
morea
11-28-2005, 09:59 PM
I make a darned good ziti.
PersonasBinar
11-28-2005, 10:03 PM
World peace through buffet dining. I like.....What insurgants would kidnap people armed with dishes of food, breads, and rice cookers?
morea
11-28-2005, 10:05 PM
also, if we feed them enough, they will be too full to chase us away. :D
PersonasBinar
11-28-2005, 10:08 PM
hmmmm muslum dietary restrictions?
No pork?
morea
11-28-2005, 10:09 PM
we'd have to go buffet style... then everybody could pick and choose what they want to have.
PersonasBinar
11-28-2005, 10:13 PM
Don't go during Ramadan can only eat little meals at night....wait for the festival at the end of the month.
SurfPark
11-29-2005, 05:18 AM
Well I never thought that saying "the holidays" was avoiding Christmas, but rather everything, including Thanksgving and New Year's! If you're shopping for "the holidays" I always thought that this was a bigger thing too, meaning that you're shopping for Christmas, but also a lot of stuff for yourself which will be used for social gathering.
PrintDriver
11-29-2005, 11:17 AM
They are all Pagan holidays. I'm 'offended' that all you other religions stole em and can't even own up to em now.
;) Not really.
People need to get a life.
Mynock
11-29-2005, 12:16 PM
"Impact" and not "inpact" Dro, check your sig.
Drorain
11-29-2005, 12:59 PM
ty mynock ;)
jlknauff
11-29-2005, 01:46 PM
also, if we feed them enough, they will be too full to chase us away. :DAnd if we feed them turkey they will all be too tired to chase us :cool:
reuber1
11-29-2005, 02:56 PM
Interesting story; at Target in the past we could't tell the guests "Merry Christmas"...ok fine, I'll give you that. Now we can't even say "Happy Holidays". How about this, why don't we just give shoppers the finger when they're done at the checkouts?
jlknauff
11-29-2005, 02:58 PM
I'd like to see how that works out :)
reuber1
11-29-2005, 03:01 PM
lol, as anal as people get this time of year, there's been times I've came close to doing that.
mylkhead
11-29-2005, 04:29 PM
Interesting story; at Target in the past we could't tell the guests "Merry Christmas"...ok fine, I'll give you that. Now we can't even say "Happy Holidays". How about this, why don't we just give shoppers the finger when they're done at the checkouts?
That's just ridiculous.
Also, it really bothers me to see shoppers crowding around the latest gadget "gifts" like some robo-dino or something that's completely useless. Holiday shopping at stores like Wal-Mart and Target is humorous and sad at the same time. Some days I feel really cynical and feel sad that Corporations have us wrapped around their fingers. They just decide they want to make "the hottest, must-have gift" and everyone is eager to give their money away to make a family member happy for about 7 days (that's usually how long the wow factor lasts on something like a robo-dino).
Rocketpig
11-29-2005, 04:55 PM
They are all Pagan holidays. I'm 'offended' that all you other religions stole em and can't even own up to em now.
;) Not really.
People need to get a life.
Was a Pagan culture celebrating a holiday during this time before the Jews started celebrating Channukuh (sp?)?
reuber1
11-29-2005, 05:08 PM
They just decide they want to make "the hottest, must-have gift" and everyone is eager to give their money away to make a family member happy for about 7 days (that's usually how long the wow factor lasts on something like a robo-dino).That reminds me of a thought I had...Wal-Mart moved their opening hours to 5 a.m. on black Friday, and if I'm not mistaken it used to be 7 o'clock two or three years ago and 6 o'clock last year. How long until they just say f'ck it and open right at midnight? Who cares about the lives of the employees that work there, right, so long as it doesn't hurt the company's bottom line? Holiday shopping is sad, and marketing ploys--I'm looking at you and the demand of your new game console, Microsoft--only seem to fuel the fire.
PrintDriver
11-29-2005, 10:56 PM
Hmmm Rocketpig...
Since Yule is celebrated at the Winter Solstice I'm sure it dates back to the first cave man that figured out the days changed from getting shorter to getting longer on what is now December 21/22.
Definitely cause for celebration.
:D
<Summer solstice for those of you Down Under>
PersonasBinar
11-29-2005, 11:27 PM
The Pagans? I had dinner with them a couple weeks ago.
willy_flew
11-30-2005, 03:37 AM
My lasagna rules....Peace with Italy
willy_flew
11-30-2005, 03:50 AM
celebrate your wife and children. they are whats important.
Rocketpig
11-30-2005, 04:21 AM
Hmmm Rocketpig...
Since Yule is celebrated at the Winter Solstice I'm sure it dates back to the first cave man that figured out the days changed from getting shorter to getting longer on what is now December 21/22.
Definitely cause for celebration.
:D
<Summer solstice for those of you Down Under>
Hey now, that's cheating. That's celebrating a change in weather. It isn't religious.
Hmmm... But then again, a lot of those old-time Pagans seemed to enjoy worshipping dirt and flowers and stuff so maybe you're right.
Viva la solstice!
Neballer
11-30-2005, 04:27 AM
Little late, but here's my $.02
As much as I am beginning to hate "Christmas," I think it's completely asinine for companies not advertise apporiately for this time of year. What the hell do they think people are buying each other gifts for. The Christian "Christmas" died a long, long time ago and has been replaced by Hallmark and Pillsbury.
I'm friends with a Vietnamese family that celebrates Christmas, and the are 100% Buddist. They know it's called Christmas, and they don't care. It could be called "It's Pancaking Snowing Outside So Go Home." They get paid time off from work to spend time with their family and friends, who are they to argue.
As far as I'm concerned they can just rename it "Spendmas" and get it over with. That way everybody is on the same page, and all the retail operations still end up out of the red at the end of the year.
Thank you and Merry Spendmas!!http://67.15.137.131/images/yahoo/53.gif
PrintDriver
11-30-2005, 11:30 AM
Actually it is religious if you go all out for the ritual.
The Solstices are sometimes viewed as changes of power between the God and the Goddess, the two aspects of the All. There are some serious theories about seasonal religious ceremonies (Christmas, Easter, etc - and yes, Halloween) and the presence of neolithic structures like Stone Henge and the Mayan calendars.
When does Easter fall? Changes every year doesn't it...base on the full moon...
Personally, I don't go all out. It's vaguely interesting in an earth science sorta way.
Like I said in some other thread, any excuse for a holiday party is fine by me.
PersonasBinar
11-30-2005, 12:54 PM
The Pagan worship of the Solstices are the highlights of the year. Used as planting and harvest markers they helped represent the efforts of the entire community to stay alive for another year in a evil envirnoment. God the thought of living in the UK (think winter) back then. What a hard life. These markers were based on our position in the solar system, not on an arbitrary calender date (argued over by clerics try to appease new Christians) Most of our modern Christian holidays were lifted from orher religion as ways to help bring the new flock home as it were. Christianity really didn't have alot going for it it terms of celebrations. Quite the dirge of a religion actually, all guilt, blind faith, and nothing to show for a lifetime of faith except sore knees.
Rocketpig
11-30-2005, 06:01 PM
Actually it is religious if you go all out for the ritual.
The Solstices are sometimes viewed as changes of power between the God and the Goddess, the two aspects of the All. There are some serious theories about seasonal religious ceremonies (Christmas, Easter, etc - and yes, Halloween) and the presence of neolithic structures like Stone Henge and the Mayan calendars.
When does Easter fall? Changes every year doesn't it...base on the full moon...
Personally, I don't go all out. It's vaguely interesting in an earth science sorta way.
Like I said in some other thread, any excuse for a holiday party is fine by me.
I know it's very religious for several Pagan cultures... I just wanted to be a smart-ass. :)
steve-o
11-30-2005, 07:41 PM
I think this really is a non issue. Christmas, holidays. Whatever. All synonyms for the samething in mainstream culture. No one's identity should feel threatened.
If businesses are hurt by the change then they will switch back. No biggie.
In fact, it is a sad commentary that holiday marketing is such a large part of people's religious identity.
Amazes me how Bill O'Reilly continues to make mountains out of mole hills.
look at my sig...the infor I quote is paraphrased from bill orielly...now consider this and discuss...
__________________________________________________ ______________
My thoughts...
i think its bad marketing personally, to many people christmas isnt the 'religious' holiday people claim it to be, for most people its a tradition of trees/holly/gifts
so them taking out the holiday theme is all bull-crap and counter-productive marketing. By accepting the views of...9% (i think) of people that dont celebrate it, they are alienating the rest of the people.
Dont try and get me shopping for a holiday your afraid to mention, I will go out of my way not to give you business...in fact I will not be going to macy's filenes or any 'federated store' for my holiday shopping
ChargerBill
12-04-2005, 06:39 AM
EDIT: not worth my wasted breath
PrintDriver
12-04-2005, 02:10 PM
Oh, I wasn't saying Christmas is Pagan. Yule is.
;)
It's all in what you call it and my philosophy is call it whatever you want, just don't deny it in the interests of being PC. Lots of people need to learn tolerance of other's beliefs. It's really a personal matter not up to the judgment of others.
Neballer I like your example of the Vietnamese family. A time to spend with family and friends is always in order.
Drorain
12-05-2005, 09:49 PM
Bill Oreilly Shared some results of a poll he took this weekend 100,000 people replied to the question
Would you shop at a place that refuses to make mention of the word Christmas?
81% said no
19% said yes
and there you have it. but the thing is...people would have to be conciously looking for places not saying it...or they will simply look at the published lists of those who are being 'pollitcally correct'
steve-o
12-06-2005, 04:39 PM
If the poll was done via his tv show or radio show or web site, then they are O'Reilly's audience so it's hardly unbiased or a true random sampling.
ChargerBill
12-06-2005, 04:59 PM
EDIT: not worth my wasted breath
reuber1
12-06-2005, 05:18 PM
In fact, it is a sad commentary that holiday marketing is such a large part of people's religious identity.
Exactly.
ChromeZephyr
12-06-2005, 05:34 PM
...it's only the 14% group of athiest liberals out there who want to spread the assault AGAINST any form or mention of Christianity or Christian message. People need to remember that 86% of the population in this country consider themselves some form or another of Christian.
Ummmm, what about the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, various flavors of pagans, etc, etc, etc that live in this country? Can't have over 100% of a population. Not trying to start a flamewar, the numbers just didn't add up right.
Drorain
12-06-2005, 05:40 PM
Ummmm, what about the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, various flavors of pagans, etc, etc, etc that live in this country? Can't have over 100% of a population. Not trying to start a flamewar, the numbers just didn't add up right.
yah...what about them?
Needless to say...I know Jews, Buddist, and shinto's that celebrate Christmas...and even muslims that do
Has everyone forgot the concept of target audience? :confused: You cater to the people that will buy, not to make people feel good
Drorain
12-06-2005, 05:44 PM
ChromeZephyr ~ don't hold back either, this isnt a discussion that will become a flame war, this is a very relevent issue to designers. We need to consider target audiences, and we need to discuss, who do we design for, who do we ignore. Is our job to help the companies make money, or to make people feel good.
I'm just looking for opinion, or facts, what looks good on paper, and what is good in practice.
steve-o
12-06-2005, 05:44 PM
But it's still his viewers, whether they are diverse or not, and only those with a strong feeling one way or the other are going to take the poll, especially if they are required to take the first step (i.e. visit a Web site, call in, etc.) vs. phone survey where the phone call to the home is the first step and the subject of the poll isn't stated upfront.
I don't feel strongly either way about this issue, so I'm not going to visit a Web site to take a poll about it. However, if I'm called for a phone survey I'm more likely to participate.
Actually, OReilly's audience is one of the more diverse on FoxNews. I hear just as many slams from conservatives as I do from liberals, and apparently his book sold equally well with BOTH sides of the aisle.
And despite what you may think of his audience, I find it VERY telling that many of the stores almost immediately changed their approach and began using the word Christmas again right away. Honestly, it's only the 14% group of athiest liberals out there who want to spread the assault AGAINST any form or mention of Christianity or Christian message. People need to remember that 86% of the population in this country consider themselves some form or another of Christian.
I seriously doubt that all athiests are liberals either. It's really only been the last few years that conservatives and christians have been tied so inexorably together.
What are you talking about steve-o?!?!
Fox News is "Fair and Balanced" ;)
Sarcasm aside I find that hard those numbers very hard to believe Dro. If the data is not skewed by the audience bias - It could be like asking if people would buy an American product over a Chinese made one. Most people agree in theory but put them side by side in Walmart and people will almost always purchase the one that is $3 cheaper.
defjoe
12-06-2005, 06:03 PM
All I have to say about this is SHUT THE HELL UP and enjoy the time off *******s!
It's ****ing CHRISTMAS!!!!
steve-o
12-06-2005, 06:04 PM
Kool,
glad you made that point. In fact, a case could be made that many corporate executives who vote along traditional conservative lines are aethiest. Ever been down to Wall Street? A good number of those guys only worship one thing and I guarantee you they aren't liberal.
ChargerBill
12-07-2005, 04:53 PM
EDIT: not worth my wasted breath
Just to clarify the religious breakdown in the United States as of 2001.
76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year. This decline is identical to that observed in Canada between 1981 and 2001. If this trend continues, then by about the year 2042, non-Christians will outnumber the Christians in the U.S.
52% of Americans identified themselves as Protestant.
24.5% are Roman Catholic.
1.3% are Jewish.
0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam.
The fastest growing religion (in terms of percentage) is Wicca -- a Neopagan religion that is sometimes referred to as Witchcraft. Numbers of adherents went from 8,000 in 1990 to 134,000 in 2001. Their numbers of adherents are doubling about every 30 months. 4,5 Wiccans in Australia have a very similar growth pattern, from fewer than 2,000 in 1996 to 9,000 in 2001. 10 In Canada, Wiccans and other Neopagans showed the greatest percentage growth of any faith group. They totaled 21,080 members in 1991, an increase of 281% when compared with 1990.
14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase -- almost a doubling -- from only 8% in 1990. There are more Americans who say they are not affiliated with any organized religion than there are Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans taken together.
Like most "atheist liberals" I do not offense at the mere mention of Christmas ... like any labeled group of people it's the lunatic fringe that causes all the commotion and usually makes a big deal about nothing.
Religious data taken from http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
steve-o
12-07-2005, 05:53 PM
This whole conversation is hilarious, bordering on the ridiculous.
First a few people get upset that around this time of year stores only use the name of the day that we celebrate the birth of Christ to market products to us, and then in response, a few more people get upset that stores no longer use the name of the day that we celebrate the birth of Christ to market to them.
Like I said, it's truly sad that people feel their religious identity is threatened because stores stop saying "Christmas" to market to them.
Inner strength?! I'm sure Christ is so proud that "staunch defenders of the faith" are out there asking stores to use his birth as a symbol of materialism.
Seems to me that the mention of Jesus Christ to market goods and services would be explicitly anti-Christian.
?! I'm sure Christ is so proud that "staunch defenders of the faith" are out there asking stores to use his birth as a symbol of materialism..
Bwahahahahahaha.
ChargerBill
12-08-2005, 03:28 PM
EDIT: not worth my wasted breath
morea
12-08-2005, 03:31 PM
I'm sure Christ is so proud that "staunch defenders of the faith" are out there asking stores to use his birth as a symbol of materialism.
no kidding.
That comment was really uncalled for there ChargerBill.
Mynock
12-08-2005, 03:47 PM
I might have to go back and actually read this thread.
steve-o
12-08-2005, 03:48 PM
Kool, it's ok. I forgive him.
Thats very Christian of you steve-o.
PersonasBinar
12-08-2005, 04:46 PM
What's the percentage of Dancin' Fools? woohooo
Mynock
12-08-2005, 04:48 PM
You don't get more Christian then Mel there steve-o, lol.
A little off topic here but is anyone's church pimpin' Narnia? I hear Disney got the people who marketed "The Passion" to do the same for this movie. My friends church was giving giant movie posters out to the kids in Sunday school and are organizing groups to go and see the movie.
steve-o
12-08-2005, 05:02 PM
I also heard that they are running a contest to see how many times pastors can incorporate Narnia movie references into their sermons.
Still not sure if that was a joke or not.
Surprisingly not a joke.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/149/21.0.html
*edit Apparently is very christian to whore out your sermon for a $1000 and a trip to england.
morea
12-08-2005, 05:10 PM
wow. :eek:
product placement in church, what will they think of next? lol
jlknauff
12-08-2005, 05:13 PM
billboards in hell
Mynock
12-08-2005, 05:14 PM
Jesus bobbleheads, oh wait.
http://www.fadtoys.com/political/jesus_box.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/phoenixburning/bigguy.jpg
morea
12-08-2005, 05:25 PM
recreating the Pepsi logo on the surface of the moon after it's victory in the Cola Wars.
DeleteYourself
12-08-2005, 06:04 PM
As a jewish-raised atheist, I can honestly say I don't care what private companies do or say in their marketing.
Merry/Happy Christmahunnukwanzukkah!
Furthermore, I think Bill O'Reily makes baby Jesus cry.