Customized Scroll Bars Question... [Archive]

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 07:36 PM

Not possible in safari, or any browser on OSX. The scroll bar is a part of the Operating Systems interface, and should not be changed, ever, by a website.

Edit: Beaten above.

Mynock

12-08-2005, 07:41 PM

Next think you'll want to do is change my cursor. I said NO!

DesignIt

12-08-2005, 07:45 PM

I'm actually talking about just changing a scrollbar withing the website...not the overall scrollbar. More of a customized thing within the site, leaving the user with "his/her" own plain bar. Thoughts??

12-08-2005, 07:47 PM

I've done it. I don't bother with it because it's not supported in all browsers. Plus I always forget. I don't think people notice the scrollbar much anyway.

Satchel

12-08-2005, 07:50 PM

I don't think people notice the scrollbar much anyway.

I dont use 'em... I just use my scroll ball, so I am one who does not notice them. But on crappy MySpace pages sometimes they piss me off when they are the same color as the background, you cant see where you are! I say dont do it.
S.

DesignIt

12-08-2005, 07:52 PM

...I don't think people notice the scrollbar much anyway.

I don't agree with this entirely.

In great design, it's the little things that make all the difference.

Although, the fact that it's not supported in all browsers is what would cause me to not do it.

Like I said, this is going to be for an interior part of the site. I think a customized bar would serve a huge purpose...for those on a pc that is.

DesignIt

12-08-2005, 07:53 PM

I dont use 'em... I just use my scroll ball, so I am one who does not notice them. But on crappy MySpace pages sometimes they piss me off when they are the same color as the background, you cant see where you are! I say dont do it.
S.

Yeah. lol I hear you. BUT. Crappy design is CRAPPY design, whether your customizing the scroll bar or not.

Thanks all for such quick feedback! =) I will let you know how it turns out.

JPnyc

12-08-2005, 08:06 PM

You talking about altering the scroll bar on a scrolling div or other?

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 08:12 PM

Do not change the scroll bar. UI consistency is important. The scroll bar is not a website feature, its the browser feature. Its the file browsers feature. It is apart of the UI.

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS RIGHT AND PURE IN THE WORLD, DO NOT CHANGE THE SCROLLBAR.

That is all :(

JPnyc

12-08-2005, 08:14 PM

Hang on, he might be talking about altering a scrollbar within the page, not the actual browser bar. To me anything that's on the page itself is the designer's realm. The actual browser scrollbar at far right (or bottom) is part of my browser and you should leave it alone. But if it's a scrolling div or iframe, that's within the designers page and they should be able to do with it as they please.

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 08:35 PM

... Oh :o

While that scrollbar is still technically apart of the browser, it does make sense to "theme" it. I'll shut up now.

Satchel

12-08-2005, 08:35 PM

I totally Contridicted myself there, didn't I? I said I didn't notice them, then I said I did notice when they sucked... oops. I'm a confusing person.
S.

DesignIt

12-08-2005, 09:30 PM

Haa ha!! :rolleyes:

You guys truly are funny! I almost spilled my water on the keyboard! lol

Anywayzz...yes, this will be a div scrollbar within the page.

Sorry for the confusion...BUT...I blame it on Satchel. He so said so himself that he was confusing. :D

JPnyc

12-08-2005, 09:40 PM

So where's this leave us? Are we pro choice or right to scrollbarers?

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 10:03 PM

A scrollbar is a scrollbar 'cause that's the way OS intended!

DesignIt

12-08-2005, 10:06 PM

Well,
The way I am using it (within a div) I think it is a-ok to customize. Although, I won't touch the "universal" scroll bar. That's my vote.

DesignIt

12-08-2005, 10:09 PM

One more thing. Sorry to be quite frank but...screw the idea of "cause that's the way OS intended!"

If there is a better, more appropriate way, I am going to use it. =)

Mynock

12-08-2005, 10:10 PM

The earth isn't flat? http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/zetcos08.gif

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 10:46 PM

What's the point of having consistent standardized user interfaces when all you do is go and screw it up because you dont like the look of a scrollbar :mad: ?

JPnyc

12-08-2005, 10:50 PM

I've always taken the rogue's approach to things like this. Heck anyone here use the CSS opacity attribute? That's not part of any final w3c recommendation yet, and isn't universally supported either. If you use it, you're a rogue too :)!

I use proprietary IE filters all the time. I just code responsibly for the browsers that AREN'T IE while I'm doing it. But if there's an option out there that I wanna use and a significant amount of the public will see it, no one's stopping me from using it.

The fact that IE had more interest in making it possible for DHTML to compete with flash is a plus, in my eyes. I'd like to see ALL the options become part of the standard. I mean all IE's proprietary methods, and all the existing standards that IE doesn't support yet. I want em all.

12-08-2005, 10:53 PM

what do you mean about consistent/standardized? I skin my firefox browser so I don't have to look at that ugly old boring interface. Is that what you mean? And don't gimme one of those red faces! lol

JPnyc

12-08-2005, 11:13 PM

Well what we're basically arguing here is the user's right to have their browser scrollbar match the rest of the browser, vs. the designer's right to have the scrollbar match their site theme. When you distill it down like that, sounds pretty trivial to me.

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 11:15 PM

:mad:

Alright, j/k. I'm not really angry. I just do not understand why a ui can't be consistent, why firefox should be themeable on its own, separate from the os, and why you have to change scrollbars. Know that this is coming from soemone who would much rather use fluxBox than deal with even OSXs beautiful GUI, but still, the scroll bar is not apart of the website, it is a part of the browser. I do not believe that a website should intefer with my application.

12-08-2005, 11:21 PM

firefox is not part of the operating system. it's just a program like any other. Or have I missed somethin'.

Dude, I skin my email app. I want it to be pink, therefore it is pink. I have to stare at this damn glowing box all day every day, is a little variety too much to ask?

Next thing you know, you'll want to take away my Leonardo DiCaprio desktop wallpaper!

(I kid, I kid) ;)

DesignIt

12-08-2005, 11:28 PM

What's the point of having consistent standardized user interfaces when all you do is go and screw it up because you dont like the look of a scrollbar :mad: ?

Maybe we should all just design our websites the same while were at it...

:cool:

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 11:42 PM

You both are missing the point...

A web browser is an application. Your mail app is an application. There are common functions and features in each one. Toolbars, dialog boxes, context menus, scrollbars, open, close, cut, copy paste, etc. All of this under the umbrella that is your operating system. How fun would it be if every single program you used decided for itself how menus work, dialog boxes, etc. Or every single program had the options and preferences in different locations (Im looking at you windows/linux developers). File menu? Nope. This program is also going to use custom mouse icons too.

I couldnt stand that. As well as alot of other people. Hence the creation of Human Interface Guidelines. Even websites have recomendations for keeping the user experience consistent.

You don't have to design your websites the same, but you should at least respect your users and leave their cursors, scrollbars, and anything else that is not apart of the website alone.

12-08-2005, 11:48 PM

Standards, sure. But what gives anybody the right to tell me what I can and can't customize on my own system? If I choose to change something, that doesn't mean anybody else is forced to do it. How is my pink email app hurting you?

12-08-2005, 11:50 PM

And by the way -- I was speaking as a user. As a designer, I get your point as it pertains to scrollbars, etc. I promise to never do it again! lol (Not that I've done it all that often, maybe once or twice in all these years.)

ecsyle

12-08-2005, 11:55 PM

Your pink interface is not hurting me. Webdesigners who decide for me that my scrollbar is to be pink and my cursor is going to be someting entirely different do :)

JPnyc

12-09-2005, 12:07 AM

Well in principle I agree with the "don't you dare mess with my browser" attitude, but the color of the scroll bar, particularly if it's IN the page, as in a scrolling div or iframe, is so minor so as not to be considered by me.

chris_bcn

12-09-2005, 12:36 AM

Just to wade in here:

Whatever is integral to the OS should remain that way.

Sure you can skin YOUR firefox to suit YOUR needs and wants. Fine. But don't force me to have a pink scrollbar just because YOU like it that way. If that's what you want then head on over to the greasemonkey firefox plug in and change the scroll bars all you want.

OS conventions should stay as they are. You can't decide to change it for everyone out there. Stick to skinning your own browser - leave everyone elses alone.

i shall now have a lie down

JPnyc

12-09-2005, 12:52 AM

Post took that much outta ya, huh? :)

chris_bcn

12-09-2005, 12:54 AM

getting near the end of a rather long week! :p

Ryan8720

12-09-2005, 12:59 AM

As a side note, the newest Opera allows the scrollbar to be styled. Although there is probably an option to override it.

I personally find it annoying, but some are tastefully done. Also, it doesn't validate.

JPnyc

12-09-2005, 01:02 AM

Does the newest Opera support opacity yet?

DesignIt

12-09-2005, 01:40 AM

Again just to clarify things. I am not suggesting a change of the overall scroll bar, it will stay standard. What I am planning on, is the scroll bar within a div, which sits completely inside the web page. I don't see a problem with this as it looks more a part of the website then the browser. Users will still have their standard browser scrollbar to the right and bottom, as necessary.

Thanks again to all for responding. I never quite imagined I would spurn such a debate! :D

JPnyc

12-09-2005, 02:12 AM

Who cares, the NYR are up 4-0 against the top team in the western conference! I mean let's keep things in perspective here! :D

chris_bcn

12-09-2005, 03:13 AM

it's a slow day!

I believe that the scrollbar, no matter where it is, is part of the OS, in the same way that the submit button is, (and indeed, locked in safari) and should be left as users now this convention!

JPnyc - I have absolutely no idea what your talking about - must be one of the those strange american sports :p

JPnyc

12-09-2005, 03:15 AM

Well North American, yes. It's really a Canadian sport. Although there was some pictorial evidence of a game very much like it being played in Holland as far back as the 16th century, however with a ball instead of a puck.

12-09-2005, 03:27 AM

the submit button? that's crossing the line for me. Those are so ugly, I always change the style on those - and so many do. I refuse to consider that ugly gray a "convention"

hmph.

Satchel

12-09-2005, 05:16 AM

Sorry for the confusion...BUT...I blame it on Satchel. He so said so himself that he was confusing. :D

Oops! Hope this is not my fault! Actually no, I dont care if it really was! It gave everyone something to do, right?

S.