'Open' or 'Place' images

[imagemaker]

Greetings;

I have always been in the practice of opening a new or existing document and then using the File/Place steps to bring in an image (.tiff, .jpg or .psd).

I have recently done some contract work for a place that prefers I 'Open' the image file with AI, then copy the image and paste it into a new document, and close the original image file.

Are there any advantages or disadvantages to either way? Does the image get processed differently? How about color management? Any preferences by anyone on the forum?

Thanx in advance.

[PrintDriver]

The only thing I see in doing it that way is that you have no choice but have the image embedded rather than linked. There is no option on Opening to link the image rather than embed it. The drag and drop into a new doc embeds it there as well.

Does this place have a printer that requires embedded images? If not, it's an extra step or two for the printer to relink the image properly, assuming they are sent with the file.

[ChargerBill]

Yep, they want the images embedded. The problem is that too many designers create their files using pieces from all over their Hard Drive, then when they put them on a CD or email them they just grab all the pieces from various locations and randomly throw them together. Doing this causes Illustrator to lose the link path it originally created when you imported that image because the relative location of the files when created has now been changed. IMO this is a bone head, amatuer move on the part of GD's and I don't blame any service bureau for asking that the images are embedded. If most designers would simply organize their files for ease of use (among other things) then we wouldn't have the bad rap that we do within the industry...but alas, many are either oblivious or just too lazy.

Do this, create a folder named whatever...ie: "XYZProject". Inside that folder create another folder named Image Resources and dump all the images for the project into that folder and maybe another named Font Resources, etc... After doing that crate a new file/document and save it into the top level of "XYZProject". Now, when you link images they will actually stay correctly link when you burn the whole "XYZProject" folder to CD or .zip it to send via email.

Like anything else, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And keep in mind that we are all responsible for the collective Graphic Designers reputation out there in the real world, so help us out a little...K?

[PrintDriver]

Embedding images makes them very difficult to color correct if you don't have the physical link. And color correcting by applying profile is absolutely necessary - for wide format anyway.

I've very rarely had a designer send images correctly linked on a CD, especially when using Quark. Package/Collect doesn't always do it. And worse, some designers send ALL the images they thought they used or neglect to send one or two. To deal with the former, we just toss the layout file into the same folder with all the images and open it from there. It will relink any images it finds with the same names, if it's in the folder. To deal with the latter, phone call.

<We won't talk about renaming links and fonts, file names that are too long, or using low res fpo images that weren't directly created from the high-res, will we...>

[jimking]

I've had big problems with some programs where the graphics are copied and paste. Such as Quark and pagemaker. Sounds like bad advice.

[Broacher]

As a failsafe against lost linked files, PageMaker is probably a more logical choice to make this a 'practice' but I still wouldn't encourage it. And the reason isn't so much technical, as human behaviourial. The more 'emergency undos' you work into a workflow, the more likely is it that they become the 'norm' instead of the exception. In other words: it encourage sloppiness.

And the reason PageMaker can support this better is because it's the only layout app that allows you instant 'Export to Image File' from an embedded image-- and relinking to this in one step. It won't work on DCS stuff, or even coloured greyscales (these come out as RGB TIFFs), but it does work. Also, for packaging purposes, you can run the Global Link Options plugin that ships with PM to 'unlink', 'embed' or 'link and embed' all at one go.

As a backup against lost links, it can help to also embed-- but you pay the price in PMkr file size, of course. And, as I said, it's not good to become dependent on this practice. There's also one other 'reason' that I've seen people adopt this strategy, and it's based on a production fallacy that the only way to globally transfer links automatically in PageMaker is to Package them to a new directory, and in some workflows, it's faster to just trust embedding.

There is one other method that not everyone knows about that's useful, for certain workflows: if you're transferring a PM file with lots of links to another system that has links that are not accessible to the new system, simply place all the linked files into the same folder in the new system as the transferred PM document and the links will be reconstructed to these when that copy of the PM document is opened. If the originals are on shared network though, this won't happen. It's just a safety fuse PM has: if a link is broken, it automatically checks the root directory of the document for a filename to match.

[PrintDriver]

Broacher Illy, InD, Quark, etc files will also relink if dropped into the same folder as the images.

You didn't mention your usual reason for embedding images. So no one messes with your settings. Which is good if you and your printer are on the same page. In wide format, you have no idea what the print machine ICC settings will do to your settings, so an editable link is better.

[Broacher]

PD, yeah-- I knew about those others behaving the same way. What I perhaps didn't make clear is that I was saying that it's PMkr's "Global Link Options" that makes things a little easier to mention by allowing you to fully embed AND link all the links in one go. Now those other apps have some shortcuts that allow you to do quick 'relinks' based on one directory-- something PM is sorely lacking (outside the root directory trick), but the dual embed/link function is (I think) pretty unique to PM's Global Link Options.

Personally, if linking was a handoff issue, I'd be heading straight towards PDF handoff.

I should also mention that C&P into PageMaker is THE most common source of prepress problems-- and since PM offers the ability to do both Embed and Link in one go through the Global Links Plugin, it makes no sense to use cut and paste at all as a way to embed images. The worst offenders are cutting and pasting from MS Office stuff-- it seems to permanently balloon the PM doc file way out there. (When I say permanent, I mean permanent: even after deletion, SaveAs overwrite-- the PM doc will remain bloated).

One other thing: do NOT use the CorelDraw (CDR) file import in PM. It simply does a direct CDR to WMF conversion which is bad, bad, bad, news.

[imagemaker]

Thanx for the replies.

It is not really a production issue so much as an organization issue. The company is a sign shop that does a lot of monument signs ad building lettering and the owner HATES to have to search around for a missing image. As each now job is started, a 'Folder Package' is placed into the file with sub folders for 'Concept Drawings', 'Final Cut/Print/Rout', and 'Pics/Images/Downloads'.

ChargerBill- I already do all that. My weakness is remembering to convert my 'working' RGB images to final CMYK. But that's a memory issue (and I don't mean RAM). I should create another 'typical' file for 'CMYK Converted Images' to remind me to put something in it. I will even find a way to verify what QuarkX does when I do a 'collect for output'. Although I've pretty much already done that on my own.

Personally, whether embed or linked, I prefer to include the image file independent of the document, so that IF anything is amiss, as PD mentioned, there is an 'original' file that can be referred to.

I know that embedding increases the size of the document file, especially if the same image is used more than once. But that also does not seem to be the issue.

I would venture then that simply opening the image file in Illy and resaving it under a new name and .ai extension would also embed rather than link. I believe there is a setting to automatically update any changed links. Such that if a rework a linked pic after placing it, AI will ask it I want to replace the existing image with the revised one. Does that hold true for embedded images as well?

Thanx again for all your help.

[Kink]

Wow, excellent thread! These are the threads I like to see going on in here. This is how I learned a lot of the things they never tought me in school.

Personally, In AI, I always embed the images. BUT also include them in the file when I'm sending to press. But as a rule of thumb, I never embed into PageMaker, Quark or InDesign. I find that linking them (with the linked files and fonts used, placed directly in the same folder as the product), I usually never have a problem.

BUT I do say that from trial and error experience. When I started at my first design job, I didn't know these things at all. I learned the hard way. And I appoligize to all the pre-press workers out that who had to deal with me as a NOOBIE. LOL