Trapping in InDesign

[Wing1]

Is there any way to control trapping in InDesign on an item by item basis?

Here's what's happening: I have a doc, placed a photoshop image consisting of two old invoices from like 1917, beneath which i created a drop shadow with Eye Candy. The image has been flattened, and imported to ID as a tiff file.

Under the image, in ID, is a photo cutline, black text. When I create a pdf proof, the first line of the cutline (closest to the image) is BOLD (has been trapped, I guess by ID), and the rest of the cutline is regular text.

It's resolved if I close up the image box tight to the image but when I do that, it's cutting off part of the shadow creating a hard line where I don't want one. I can't send the text behind, because then it's behind the image and you can't see it.

Preferences are set to overprint black.

Whazzup??

[Neuro]

Good article on manual trapping with ID HERE (http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=21092). I found it doing a google search. :rolleyes: Without the specific file I would have a hard time giving you specific directions.

By the way I am not familar with what photo cutlines are, can you explain?

[Wing1]

Sorry... cutlines = captions :D

[jimking]

Is this something that will go to an offset printer?

[PersonasBinar]

Check that the flattening setting aren't rasterizing the type over the shadow.

[Wing1]

Is this something that will go to an offset printer?

Yes, but I have to supply final files in pdf format.

Check that the flattening setting aren't rasterizing the type over the shadow.

Thanks, I'll try that.

[PersonasBinar]

Indesign... Flattener Settings....and Transparency Settings ..... become familiar with these BEFORE sending ANY files out to a printer.

[jimking]

Indesign... Flattener Settings....and Transparency Settings ..... become familiar with these BEFORE sending ANY files out to a printer.

As a printer I wouldn't want you to trap anything. I overide all client traps and do the trapping myself including PDFs for a good reason. Most printers do this so I would contact someone and ask about that.

[PersonasBinar]

The above mentioned settings have nothing whatsoever with trapping. Merely how transparency is addressed.

[jimking]

The above mentioned settings have nothing whatsoever with trapping. Merely how transparency is addressed.
You're right I didn't mean to use your quote--what was I thinking? :confused:

[PersonasBinar]

whew...

[Wing1]

Indesign... Flattener Settings....and Transparency Settings ..... become familiar with these BEFORE sending ANY files out to a printer.

Thanks, got it. I send files out every day, and all my printers say my files are a joy to work with, they never have any trouble with my stuff.


As a printer I wouldn't want you to trap anything. I overide all client traps and do the trapping myself including PDFs for a good reason. Most printers do this so I would contact someone and ask about that.

I generally DON'T trap anything, because I despise trapping (I worked in pre-press for several years myself). I prefer to let the printer handle it, but I am concerned in this 286 page book, they might not notice these handful of places where this might be an issue.

I'll call them and ask about it.

[Wing1]

Here's an example, if anyone is interested to see. The image above is an imported photoshop tiff (ie: shadow NOT created in ID). I'm creating a pdf file by creating first a ps file and distilling it. Notice the trapped first line of text. This goes away when I close up the picture window so that it is not underneath the text.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/wingft1/sample.jpg

[jimking]

I've seen this happen many times with tiffs and black text where the text is over top the picture box with trap applied. Some people when trapping a job will apply a global trap but what I do is draw trap zones on specific areas of each page. Your job looks like a 4/c piece. Depending on the thickness of your rule I would either overprint that rule or make it a rich black. I may apply a trap to your drop shadow depending if your shadow is a build of 4/c and how much of those colors are shared by the speckled background, but not the text, and force all K text to overprint. By drawing traps zones I have more control in my trapping than going global. The other reason I do this is RIP time. If you have a complex 64pg job and it's trapping specific areas only it'll RIP quicker.

[Wing1]

So, how then do I present this to the printer in pdf format (without having to go in and close up all those text boxes?) When I create the pdf file, (through the print dialogue box), the trap options are greyed out. I do believe this page has no trap pre-sets applied to it either, but I'm still getting this result.

[rickself]

Create a 2nd black and assign it to the lines of text that are trapping, and give it overprint in the attributes. That should take care of the trapping issue.

[jimking]

Strange. Somewhere trap is being applied---In Indesign go to window then open "trap styles" pallet and select "no trap styles". Then I would just print out a laser of one page and see how it looks. Then make a pdf of that page and print it out also. If you get the same result instead of "print" try "export" as a pdf and choose "press" and see if you get the same result. Hope this helps.

[Wing1]

Create a 2nd black and assign it to the lines of text that are trapping, and give it overprint in the attributes. That should take care of the trapping issue.

Thanks... but that didn't work... :(

Strange. Somewhere trap is being applied---In Indesign go to window then open "trap styles" pallet and select "no trap styles". Then I would just print out a laser of one page and see how it looks. Then make a pdf of that page and print it out also. If you get the same result instead of "print" try "export" as a pdf and choose "press" and see if you get the same result. Hope this helps.

Okay... I did that, and the results are:

Print to ps > distill = same problem
Print to laser = same problem
Export to press pdf = problem solved

Which prompts my next question: I could create the pdfs by exporting, but isn't it generally better to create a .ps and then distill? The file is certainly smaller when I distill -- one page, at press settings, distilled is 764kb, exported it's 1.4mb (and I've got a 286 page book!).

I guess beyond that, I can go and make sure none of those text boxes are overlapping picture windows but what a pain!

::frowns::

[rickself]

I guess beyond that, I can go and make sure none of those text boxes are overlapping picture windows but what a pain!
Welcome to Prepress!

[Wing1]

Welcome to Prepress!

UGH! I'd hoped I was DONE with prepress! :o:(

[jimking]

What the hell!! It never ends. Just should not happen when trapping styles are off. Just double checking now--You did pick "no trap styles" and not "default" because default will give you a trap.

[jimking]

Also you said in your prefs. you have "overprint black"? Try turning that off and see what happens.

[rickself]

ahh, grasshoppa, you are NEVER done with prepress!

[Wing1]

Yup.. I went to the trap preset pallet and assigned "No Trap Preset" to all pages in the document. ie: in the Trap Assignments window, it says:

[No trap preset]:
a-Sec2:138 (which are all pages in the document)

Here are my print settings (maybe I'm doing something wrong here?):

Printer: Postscript File
PPD: HD_Herkules

Under output:
Color: Composite CMYK
Trapping: Options are greyed out

Also you said in your prefs. you have "overprint black"? Try turning that off and see what happens.

I'll try that and let you know... ::slashes wrists::

That banging head graphic in your avitar is how I feel right now!

[Wing1]

Also you said in your prefs. you have "overprint black"? Try turning that off and see what happens.

*sigh* makes no difference at all...

[jimking]

You can also try changing your PPD--in my PPD dialog box I have several versions of distiller. Try that.

[Wing1]

Well, I tried a different PPD (Distiller) and no dice. I give up!

[PersonasBinar]

Overprinting Black is all through every part of Indesign. Pagemaker couldn't trap it's way out of a wet paper bag either. You just want it NOT to trap? Is that type actually trapped of has it been rasterized into the image behind it?

What flattening and transparency settings did you use?

[Wing1]

The flattening settings for the document are set to high resolution. The image was created in Photoshop, and it was flattened before import.

[jimking]

All trapping has been turned off. It's part of the graphic (white area) that is causing that type to fatten up. Wing1 can get rid of the trap by shortening the graphic box--280pg however. One thing you can try as a test is take one of the graphics and save it as an eps instead of a tiff and run that one page and see what happens. Like I've said earlier I've seen this happen many times but in my workflow not a client's supplied pdf. And they've always been colored tiffs that caused it.

[PersonasBinar]

Yea ...... blame it on the TIF. Been the cause of many a late night in prepress shops.

[jimking]

The only time I've seen this are tiffs that were colored in layout programs. When trapping was applied to the graphic the white area of the tiff was treated as though that white was the dominate color thus causing the black text to fatten. The way we fixed it is to reverse the trap settings of the colors only for that particular trap zone.

[Wing1]

BINGO!

I saved the image as an .eps and reimported it. Printed to pdf, and bingo, no more fat type.

Jeepers, that was a process and a half! Thanks to everyone who gave their input in trying to solve this issue! :):):)

::whew:: I love it when a solution is found!

[rickself]

^^ I love it when someone says "JEEPERS"! ^^
Good job Wing1. Move on up to Wing2

[Wing1]

LOL! I just did what was suggested... kudos go to jimking for the idea!

[jimking]

You must be good at what you do because you saw the problem and persisted in getting it right for the printers. You gave no deer in the headlight responses! A Pro. :D

[rickself]

gettin all misty-eyed here.
Trouble shooting is a real pain in the keester. Everybody should take the rest of the day off!

[PersonasBinar]

Good on you, way to go, wrestle that sucker to the ground and give it the full nelson.
Beers AWAY!!!!!

[jimking]

Good on you, way to go, wrestle that sucker to the ground and give it the full nelson.
Beers AWAY!!!!!
Wiping the tears from my eyes. Yes, things like this just piss me off. No trapping applied yet there's trapping going on. Code on top of Code, I suppose. Just should not happen. :mad:

[Wing1]

You must be good at what you do because you saw the problem and persisted in getting it right for the printers. You gave no deer in the headlight responses! A Pro. :D

Thanks! :p

I've been doing this a long time, and I've found over the course of the years that there HAS to be a solution, usually it's something so incredibly simple... There is some satisfaction in finding the answer, too. That, and I'm incredibly anal about sending clean files to the printer (having been on the receiving end of files gone sideways).

InDesign is relatively new to me, so it's particular quirks sometimes baffle me.

[jimking]

It may not be a Indy thing than more like a PDF thing. This problem I've seen from quark also after making a pdf for our workflow.