Here's a logo to check out

[Jriddim]

Hey Guy's

Im a student designer thats doing a logo for my friends contracting/home improvement business. My friend wants me to use yellow and black and to use the shape of a framing hammer... the rest was up to me. Tell what you think, I would love any comments/crit

Thanks!!!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/_Truth_and_rights_/newbeigen.jpg

[Rocketpig]

The "hard" drop shadow has always been a pet peeve of mine. Try to use a richer gold color so that the black back drop is not needed. Besides, true yellow is kinda ugly anyway. A richer color would work better.

I notice that you used a lot of strokes on the imagery. Try making the rulers a little more fluid and eliminating the strokes. Strokes are a menace in logos because when they are shrunk down to a small size, they tend to disappear or become impossible to print nicely.

Try implementing some bends into the rulers. I think it would make the "b" look nicer and it would flow better.

BTW, I like the hammer. Other than eliminating the stroke, I'd leave that alone.

[Rocketpig]

Just as an idea, try the logo with an RGB 255/190/0 gold color. See what you think.

[Rocketpig]

Here's a quick job. Hope you don't mind me jacking your logo.

[EC]

yellow and black -- about the worst combo there is (danger signs, bees, it's psychologically unnerving).

Nice start though! I concur with cjoe, keep us posted! :)

(PS Welcome to the GDF!)

[Rocketpig]

yellow and black -- about the worst combo there is (danger signs, bees, it's psychologically unnerving).

Nice start though! I concur with cjoe, keep us posted! :)

(PS Welcome to the GDF!)

Not to derail this crit, but do you really think yellow and black are that bad?

If it's a nice gold color, I think it can be done (though other colors can be used for ultimately a nicer effect IMO). His client said that he liked those colors and you know how clients can be...

[Jriddim]

Great stuff guys, I really appreciate it! I shall re-post the re-designs shortly, BTW, what would be a ball-park figure to charge for this logo? along with a b-card?

[Rocketpig]

This forum is really jumpy about discussing prices (some reasons I agree with, some I don't personally), so your best bet is to:

a) Buy a GAG handbook. They list pricing

b) Call a few design houses in your area, pretend you're a customer and get a price out of them. That will give you a ballpark figure to go off because in my experience, the GAG handbook views most pricing indexes through rose-colored glasses.

[Jriddim]

Ok thanks very much!!!

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

yellow and black -- about the worst combo there is...

...and one of the most effective/memorable color combinations for identities of businesses in the construction/home improvement business. (Hyster, DeWalt, and many more)

A client of mine actually hired a company to do a study on just that topic years ago and the only request they made for their logos was that they be yellow and black.

- J.

[cjoe]

yellow and black -- about the worst combo there is (danger signs, bees, it's psychologically unnerving).

Nice start though! I concur with cjoe, keep us posted! :)

(PS Welcome to the GDF!)

oh thanks what did i say? :)

[Rocketpig]

...and one of the most effective/memorable color combinations for identities of businesses in the construction/home improvement business. (Hyster, DeWalt, and many more)

A client of mine actually hired a company to do a study on just that topic years ago and the only request they made for their logos was that they be yellow and black.

- J.

Wow, that's a damned good point, Jeff. I knew there was a reason why I didn't think it was taboo. You pointed out the reasons why I thought it seemed okay to use.

Ferrari couldn't have been wrong for all these years... :)

[JaCkinbOx]

On the other hand, an appropriately employed brown couldn't hurt, either.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I don't mind the use of yellow and black as long as it's done right and think you are on the right track but as stated before I would drop the hard shadow and use a more gold yellow. I like you font it definitely says construction to me keep us posted and Rocket had a good idea about getting an idea of pricing, that can be one of the toughest things to determine, even though it sounds simple.

[EC]

Not to derail this crit, but do you really think yellow and black are that bad?


I suppose I should have said I believe it's one of the "toughest" combinations ... but of course there are appropriate uses for it and you won't ever hear me say that *anything* is taboo.

[rockem]

The shadow thing needs to be taken off, it hurts the design more than helps it, same with the strokes. The hammer seems a little awkward to me, and the ruler thing makes it way to busy IMO. Your learning so explore alot of different concepts, i think you need to incoporate the hammer or other tools into the letters, the hammer next to type isnt working right now it has a clip arty, beginer feel. Ill try and find some of the logos I am talking about that work very well for some refernce material.

[Jriddim]

OK thanks... I shall re-work it with some new deeper shades of yellow in mind, Thanks for all the quick replies... this forum rocks!!!!!!

[emmerse]

yes, we rocketh

[vtwin_gary]

here's what i think about black & gold
http://media3.steelers.com/Images/design/header/header3.jpg

sorry to highjack.
please pick up where you were

[Navian]

No ^

[Jriddim]

Hey Guys, This is the re-design.. I Think this is a stronger peice... I am playing around with ruler in he text but im not sure if i should keep i or not??



Thanks

Joe

[Jriddim]

Wooooopssssss Here is the pic LOL




http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/_Truth_and_rights_/newbeigen2.jpg

[Jriddim]

Ok soo its pretty late right now and as you can see the "&" is the older lighter yellow hahah i forgot about the "&".... Please disregard that........

[EC]

The monitor I am on currently tends to wash out colors a bit, but I think though it's subtle, this color change made a huge impact. I am not sure about the repeating element in the "i" (it's different than the other rulers, lacks the dot at the top) ... but nice improvement.

Just out of curiousity, did you try to use the "B" (hammer + ruler) combined with the type at all? (i.e. "mark + "iegan &" and "others")? It may not work, but just wondered if you played with that at all. Without the strokes, I *got* that it was a "B" but didn't before.

Good progression!

[rockem]

Im not seeing alot of progression with this, getting rid of the strokes is good, the hammer still looks a little awkward and with the ruler around it it is just to much.
I would strive for a different concept. If your a student beleive me you will be redong alot of your first work or not even using it at all, worry more about your process, researching, sketching, typography etc. It will help you in the long run

[Jriddim]

Alright,

Here is another logo design that has more of a deeper meaning, The ruler is supposed to represent the unificaton between races from whom the company is consisted of. I think it is less busy and easier to read. Let me know what you guys think!



http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/_Truth_and_rights_/beigen3.jpg

[morea]

if you go that route, I'd prefer to see the ruler made to look more like an "I" at the top - right now I am reading it as "B EGEN BROTHERS".

[Jriddim]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/_Truth_and_rights_/beigen4.jpg

[morea]

maybe if you square it up some, like this:

http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/9304/untitled19nu.gif

that reads more like "I" to me. I'd probably square up the bottom of the "R" too, now that I look at it. Just a suggestion.

Also, if you put the increment marks on the left it would probably interfere with the readability of the text less (imo). I think that's what you had done in an earlier version.

Might also want to tweak the kerning a little, too.

I think you're making good progress with this.

[D-Frag]

yellow and black are the most distinctive 2 colors you can use, and are the most visible from any distance, they are actually a very good color combo, thats why they are used in stuff like construction signage and the like.

the logo is a good start, and your headed in the right direction, just needs a tad bit more tweaking

[rockem]

I think you need to get away from the computer on this for a little bit. Its almost all the same thing, the last revision is a little different but not much, the kerning needs alot of work

[Jriddim]

What do you suggest to do with the kerning??? my client already ok'd the font and I could go ahead and start all over from scratch with pencil and paper but I am not trying to go all out here. I just want to establish a logo soon, and did I tell you i am doing this for free?

[morea]

argh. Even if this guy is your friend, you'd think he would pay you for your time.

[Jriddim]

Yeah he is "supposed" to pay me but i really don't its gonna happen because yeah he is BROKE..I really just want a portfolio peice and right now i think this is moving further and further from that. unfortunatley

[morea]

I don't think that's necessarily the case.

One thing that MIGHT help you adjust the kerning is to rotate the image upside down and work on it that way.. it kind of keeps your brain from "reading" it, and allows you to look at it as a bunch of shapes instead of a bunch of letters. I've found it helps ME, anyway.

As for gaining portfolio work, I would HIGHLY recommend volunteering for charities or non-profit groups that you deem a 'good cause' like local animal shelters, etc.

You can also check out this thread http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13845

and be sure to read over the portfolio tips here: http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7892

^ there are also some sample design contracts linked in that thread... don't learn the hard way like most of us do. A contract is for your protection as much as your client's.

Hope that helps some.

[Rocketpig]

Yeah he is "supposed" to pay me but i really don't its gonna happen because yeah he is BROKE..I really just want a portfolio peice and right now i think this is moving further and further from that. unfortunatley

It may be moving farther from what you call a "portfolio piece", but showing that you can competently create a simple logo is more important to professionals than glitz and bling.

Your portfolio should always have one or two conservative pieces in it to show that you can tone down your "style" and make something work for a client.

Most of the time, the hardest logos to create are the most simplistic.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I like the latest version alot I think you should square up the end of the ruler on the R like Morea suggested and adjust your kerning but as far as a freebie goes and a portfolio piece this is a good simple design that is memorable.

[Rocketpig]

BTW, the fact that the "&" is bigger than the other fonts really bugs me.

Am I the only one who thinks this?

And your kerning does need work but it's not readily evident to me how to fix it and keep your current design.

[Jriddim]

Thanks guys that boosted my self confidence a little bit, I guess it is true about having a simple conservative peice in a portfolio, hopefully this will be mine.

[morea]

good call on the ampersand. You could make that a little smaller, since that's not the part you want to emphasize.

[rockem]

If you just want a logo soon, your not going to have a portfolio piece, your just gonna have a logo done quickly. If you want it to be a portfolio piece, and a great logo for the freinds company, discuss with him about the time you need to get it done. If it is for your portfolio there isnt room for so so design all the pieces in your book should be the bestof the best, if its just a filler piece take it out, and if your in beggining of school right now there will be plenty more to come

[Jriddim]

Thanks, You make very much sense

[Jriddim]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/_Truth_and_rights_/bb5.jpg

[emmerse]

best so far, IMO.

I'd reduce the amphersand down about 80% of its current size.

not sure about baseline of Biegen sitting on the top of brothers, it creates some weird junctions. This works a well when the colors are the same, but always looks off to me when they differ.

good logo progression though.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Yeah, I like this one the best also but I would seperate the 2 lines, it's okay to be close but one touching the other can create problems down the road. I agree with emmerse about making the & smaller at least half the size its too prominent right now. Compare this to the first one and you have definitely made a nice progression.

[Jriddim]

Yout guys are sooooo right!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/_Truth_and_rights_/bb6.jpg

[morea]

you know, you should make sure to save each version (and your sketches too, if you still have them...) because it's great to show the progress behind a mark, and how it evolves along the way. Include a brief description of what you changed and why... it's great to have a record of that to show how you got to where you are!

I think you're doing a great job. This latest is best by far!

[Jriddim]

Thank you very much Morea! I do have all the old versions in my pb gallery,
I shall definatley do that for shure.




Joe

[Neuro]

Kerning is much better and your progression with this project is really good. I agree with Morea that you should make sure to save your steps. I also like the one color ruler better than than the dual color one. I think it makes it stand out more.

[rickself]

I think you're about there! How about setting a carpenters triangle at the end of the N that has a horizontal base and the top corner angles down to the S. Stick the ampersand in the triangle?

I don't know, I like the last version.

[Jriddim]

Rickself, That really sounds like an awesome idea, I would love to mess with a carpenters triangle and the ampersand, would you mind??? I really think that would solidify it!!!!

[rickself]

Rickself, That really sounds like an awesome idea, I would love to mess with a carpenters triangle and the ampersand, would you mind??? I really think that would solidify it!!!!
Go for it...I'm in prepress, i don't get paid for having an opinion!:D

[balou]

How about rather than using an ampersand, fill up that space at the end of the top line with "and" in lower case letters or even smaller upper case letters - either center aligned with Biegen or aligned with the bottom edge of Biegen? A thought. What a change from the first version! Looks great!

[balou]

Or a black hammer with the head of hammer hitting the S with AND in reverse in the handle. Cut off the handle when it gets to the yellow N? Make the head of hammer same height or slightly smaller than the N in Biegen. OK, I'll stop!!!

[Jriddim]

thanks balou thats sounds interesting!

[rockem]

this is why sketching and brainstorming help tremndously, get all those ideas out of your head and on paper in a few minutes

[Jriddim]

haha yes rockem, and I am going to be a man and admit that yeah, i did no scetching on this one... and in the future, my comp isnt even gettin turned on untill I have filled up 5 pages of scetches. you are more true than the sun.

[Vikia]

I liked the progressions. I liked the colors immediately for the construction trade. Using carpenter tools as parts of letters makes sense to me.

Don't know if your friend wants or needs a tagline to go with his logo and company brand. But to fill this void, a tagline could be a cleaver version of the old carpenter adage about "measure twice, cut once" bringing in a theme about work that can be trusted.