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BotixStudios
02-10-2006, 11:28 PM
Greetings,
My name is Ryan Griffin and I represent Botix Studios. Our product is currently in implementaton phase and we are looking for web graphic designers that can update our less than impressive website. Our market consists mainly of 18-27 year old males. We prefer graphics that follow the scheme of Medieval Fanstasy. An individual must have the following traits and characteristics to take on this project:
Access to all tools needed to complete the project
Access to TeamSpeak(FREE PROGRAM: www.goteamspeak.com (http://www.goteamspeak.com)) and headsets
Over the age of 18, or Guardian's Signature
Skilled in the creation of graphics
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
Project Details:
The above project entails that an individual creates high quality graphics that emphasize a creative and fun environment. As the title states we are looking for a complete site overhaul. Graphics for everything from the main page to the forums. An individual need not take on the whole project but is welcome to and promoted to take sections of the site and develop it individually. No infrastructure programming is needed. Our webmaster will make all judgement calls as he will be the one updateing the site in the future. You will be working with him directly over TeamSpeak(Program similar to Ventrillo).
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
Project Responsibilities:
All Individuals taking a project from our company are required to fullfill the project by the due date or they will be dismissed without compensation. There are no exceptions to this rule.
All scope and dutys the designer has in the project are discussed before the project begins as well as a completion date. It no event will these terms be changed unless both parties are willing to rework the original contract. There is no exception to this rule.
All individuals will be given a basic concept for the artwork by Botix Studios as well as a due date. The individual will then give Botix Studios their fee for completing the project. Individuals will need to sign an official image rights release form that will be provided for you that needs to be scanned and emailed back to ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com).
Please note that sample art pieces will greatly increase your chances of being signed on to a project as well as higher payment per project.
For more information please email me at ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com).
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
Sincerely,
Ryan Griffin
Public Relations and Marketing Manager
ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com)
All Individuals taking a project from our company are required to fullfill the project by the due date or they will be dismissed without compensation. There are no exceptions to this rule.
This sounds like an interesting project. Just didn't want anybody who's planning on responding to miss this point above, it really jumped out at me.
It reminds me of this paragraph from Jeff Fisher's example contract on about.com ...
http://graphicdesign.about.com/library/contracts/uccontract1.htm
I use language like this in my contracts. Meeting deadlines is a two way street.
</mom>
COMPLETION/DELIVERY OF PROJECT
The estimated completion date the project is ______________. Any shipping or insurance costs will be assumed by the client. Any alteration or deviation from the above specifications involving extra costs will be executed only upon approval with the client. Any delay in the completion of the project due to actions or negligence of client, unusual transportation delays, unforeseen illness, or external forces beyond the control of the designer, shall entitle the designer to extend the completion/delivery date, upon notifying the client, by the time equivalent to the period of such delay.
typographics
02-11-2006, 01:47 AM
that sounds like a fun project!
rockem
02-11-2006, 01:55 AM
Definatley a two way street here, nice offer but my contract would conflict with your contract. I would be paid for work I put into it, missing a deadline can happen on both ends with alot of unseen, and uncaused instances.
The individual will then give Botix Studios their fee for completing the project.
With such stingent rules with regards to delivery, you might want to clarify this alittle in your initial outline. I imagine you mean a quotation for the amount of time it will take or do people pay you to do work for you ?
BotixStudios
02-11-2006, 02:33 PM
With such stingent rules with regards to delivery, you might want to clarify this alittle in your initial outline. I imagine you mean a quotation for the amount of time it will take or do people pay you to do work for you ?
My apologies on the lack of clarification there. By "fee" I am directly refering to the user setting up their ideal compesation for the project they take on. Again sorry for the confusion and looking forward to hearing from some of you.
Ryan Griffin
Public Relations and Marketing Manager
ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com)
BotixStudios
02-11-2006, 02:35 PM
Definatley a two way street here, nice offer but my contract would conflict with your contract. I would be paid for work I put into it, missing a deadline can happen on both ends with alot of unseen, and uncaused instances.
Rockem,
I understand your lack of interest because of a solid due date. Believe me when I say that all dates are discussed prior to contract arrangement as well as your compensation and what project you take on. We currently have four projects that need completion. I would hope to see you there.
Ryan Griffin
Public Relations and Marketing Manager
ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com)
BotixStudios
02-11-2006, 02:38 PM
This sounds like an interesting project. Just didn't want anybody who's planning on responding to miss this point above, it really jumped out at me.
It reminds me of this paragraph from Jeff Fisher's example contract on about.com ...
http://graphicdesign.about.com/library/contracts/uccontract1.htm
I use language like this in my contracts. Meeting deadlines is a two way street.
</mom>
AS EC has stated,
Yes we do have solid due dates only because everyone working for Botix Studios has them as well. Because we are pushing for an early release date we need to put together the pieces. We do not want this to scare all those talented graphics artists away so please come discuss a project with me. You be compensated for your time and give plenty of time to complete the project.
ecsyle
02-11-2006, 10:16 PM
If something comes up that is outside the influence of yourself or the designer and reulsts in the project being delayed, then the designer doesn't get paid? Sorry, but that is ****ing shady :(
Sometimes things go wrong. For example, one of our servers was exploited, so I had to drop everything and figure out what was going on. It resulted in my spending about a week migrating to a new server, contacting clients, and not working on all my other projects. A 30,000 dollar contract had to be pushed because of it. It happens.
Right. And the main thing that delays projects? Come on, say it with me ... clients! What is to say that if you don't like somebody's work, you'll drag your feet and force a missed deadline? Sorry, just had to spell it out.
BotixStudios
02-12-2006, 03:21 AM
If something comes up that is outside the influence of yourself or the designer and reulsts in the project being delayed, then the designer doesn't get paid? Sorry, but that is ****ing shady :(
Sometimes things go wrong. For example, one of our servers was exploited, so I had to drop everything and figure out what was going on. It resulted in my spending about a week migrating to a new server, contacting clients, and not working on all my other projects. A 30,000 dollar contract had to be pushed because of it. It happens.
The only reason the due date is in is to prevent designers from pulling out prior to arrangement and demaning compensations for a 'half baked idea'. At Botix Studios we are all about team work and in the event that an "outside influence" hampers a project we are more than willing to discuss a change of due date with the designer. We find that having a static due date on everyones part promotes a healthy environment for business. I can only hope that others share my opinion on this matter. If this is the only reason you are holding back checking out our products then please talk to me and we can work something out.
Sincerely,
Ryan Griffin
Public Relations and Marketing Manager
ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com)
Zenobian Grey
02-12-2006, 04:52 AM
I'm open for disscusion and availabilty on this project. Depending on the terms, we may have a proactive connection here.
You can reach me by clicking on my avatar.
Thanks for your time!
The only reason the due date is in is to prevent designers from pulling out prior to arrangement and demaning compensations for a 'half baked idea'. At Botix Studios we are all about team work and in the event that an "outside influence" hampers a project we are more than willing to discuss a change of due date with the designer. We find that having a static due date on everyones part promotes a healthy environment for business. I can only hope that others share my opinion on this matter. If this is the only reason you are holding back checking out our products then please talk to me and we can work something out.
The problem is not at all about having a solid due date, Botix. Every client has deadlines, and this is not only expected, but embraced. The problem is that the designer "will be dismissed WITHOUT COMPENSATION"!
That is the part which is shady, and in no way in compliance with normal contract practices in the Graphic Design world. We all charge kill fees or deposits, as a general rule. If the project gets cancelled, or the designer gets removed from the project prematurely, we still get paid for our efforts. I don't charge kill fees, myself, I take a deposit before I start work on the project. It is extremely rare that a designer would ever rip off a client. It is always the other way around, which is why we must protect ourselves. You can call any design you don't like a "half-baked idea" (your words), but it is still the designer's TIME and resources, and MUST be paid for! From what you just said, what you are offering is very much akin to a design competition: "If we don't think your idea is half-baked, we'll buy it and compensate you for it. Otherwise, your time and effort is for naught."
How about screening your designers ahead of time (being honest with them about what's involved in the job), so you know you have one you can trust to do a good job, rather than adding unfair clauses to your contract?
BotixStudios
02-12-2006, 07:23 PM
The problem is not at all about having a solid due date, Botix. Every client has deadlines, and this is not only expected, but embraced. The problem is that the designer "will be dismissed WITHOUT COMPENSATION"!
That is the part which is shady, and in no way in compliance with normal contract practices in the Graphic Design world. We all charge kill fees or deposits, as a general rule. If the project gets cancelled, or the designer gets removed from the project prematurely, we still get paid for our efforts. I don't charge kill fees, myself, I take a deposit before I start work on the project. It is extremely rare that a designer would ever rip off a client. It is always the other way around, which is why we must protect ourselves. You can call any design you don't like a "half-baked idea" (your words), but it is still the designer's TIME and resources, and MUST be paid for! From what you just said, what you are offering is very much akin to a design competition: "If we don't think your idea is half-baked, we'll buy it and compensate you for it. Otherwise, your time and effort is for naught."
How about screening your designers ahead of time (being honest with them about what's involved in the job), so you know you have one you can trust to do a good job, rather than adding unfair clauses to your contract?
I understand your frustrations Ned,
but you have to understand that I have had some troubling issues with freelance designers in the past and I am being upfront with them. These projects are very simple straight forward projects that we are passing on to the community so that we may find some skilled compentent designers we can hire on as full time. I am sad to say that if the contract is not to your liking then you have the power of choice to choose to seek work elsewhere. For those who find it difficult to come to terms because of the literal catch clause please talk to me in this forum or pm/email me about the topic. Remember the "without compensation" is there only in the event of a forceful contract break.
Ryan Griffin
Public Relations and Marketing Manager
Why are people arguing about this contract? BotixStudios can have anything they want in their contract and certainly don't have to justify it to any of us. And if we don't like the terms of this contract then don't try for the job.
I understand your frustrations Ned,
but you have to understand that I have had some troubling issues with freelance designers in the past and I am being upfront with them. These projects are very simple straight forward projects that we are passing on to the community so that we may find some skilled compentent designers we can hire on as full time. I am sad to say that if the contract is not to your liking then you have the power of choice to choose to seek work elsewhere. For those who find it difficult to come to terms because of the literal catch clause please talk to me in this forum or pm/email me about the topic. Remember the "without compensation" is there only in the event of a forceful contract break.
I don't mean to give you a hard time, Ryan. :) I can understand that, if you had a bad experience. It is the same with I, there are certain types and red flags that I look for in clients, which make me hesitant or even resolutely against taking a project. That clause in your contract raised a bit of a flag to me. I know it works both ways, but it's usually the designer who gets the short end of the stick, because the employer/client is often in a better position of power, financially. We are probably on the same level here, just looking from a different perspective.
By the way, you never left a web address for Botix Studios. Is THIS (http://www.botixstudios.com) you?
ecsyle
02-13-2006, 01:20 AM
Why are people arguing about this contract? BotixStudios can have anything they want in their contract and certainly don't have to justify it to any of us. And if we don't like the terms of this contract then don't try for the job.
Yes, they can have anything they want, but it made the red flags in my head start waving. I don't think people are trying to make this a big issue as much as they are actually trying to help. Maybe.
I still think it's shady. I won't touch a large project without a 50% deposit, and that is just because I have been burned too many times in the past.
Exactly. I'm not trying to discourage anybody here, just offering a word of caution. I understand the need to set firm deadlines, but I've been burned really badly too. Once by somebody that refused to agree to my terms, stating they had been "burned so many times before by unreliable designers" ... you might remember how that turned out for me. (http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=2602&z=1)
It's nothing personal BotixStudios, I'm here to offer support for my fellow designers -- and I do hope that you find a good match and wish you much success for your projects! :)
BotixStudios
02-13-2006, 02:51 PM
I don't mean to give you a hard time, Ryan. :) I can understand that, if you had a bad experience. It is the same with I, there are certain types and red flags that I look for in clients, which make me hesitant or even resolutely against taking a project. That clause in your contract raised a bit of a flag to me. I know it works both ways, but it's usually the designer who gets the short end of the stick, because the employer/client is often in a better position of power, financially. We are probably on the same level here, just looking from a different perspective.
By the way, you never left a web address for Botix Studios. Is THIS (http://www.botixstudios.com) you?
Yes, Ned I am very sad to say it is THAT (http://www.botixstudios.com)
I understand that it brings up a large red flag but in all business you need to have a measure of trust. I am not here to rip anyone off or I would not be responding to any of these messages. The clause in the contract is there to ensure productivity and safety. As ive mentioned before in the past I have dealt with lots of freelance work where I had to set up the project and the designer went to vacation right in the middle so I found a new one. Once he got back he wanted compensation for the project that was already complete. As long as you guys aren't gonna be taking extended stays at hawaii we won't ever have to reference that clause in the contract. As you can see THAT (http://www.botixstudios.com) is in bad shape and really needs some TLC.
BotixStudios
02-13-2006, 02:54 PM
Yes, they can have anything they want, but it made the red flags in my head start waving. I don't think people are trying to make this a big issue as much as they are actually trying to help. Maybe.
I still think it's shady. I won't touch a large project without a 50% deposit, and that is just because I have been burned too many times in the past.
I have absolutely no problem with deposits on one condition,
I must have a way to reach you in real-life. Because of the nature of the internet it is very tricky to make sure you are dealing with the real thing. If this sounds like something you can do then give me an email and we can get started.
ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com)
BotixStudios
02-13-2006, 02:56 PM
Why are people arguing about this contract? BotixStudios can have anything they want in their contract and certainly don't have to justify it to any of us. And if we don't like the terms of this contract then don't try for the job.
Kool,
There being safe designers and asking questions before they start work. I fully support this or I would not be here answering them. Thank you for your full support you kool cat. :cool:
Yes, Ned I am very sad to say it is THAT (http://www.botixstudios.com)
Don't be embarassed about your website. You're on a Graphic Design forum looking for a designer to hire, so we all know that you're on the right track, no matter what you've got to showcase now. :)
... you might remember how that turned out for me. (http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=2602&z=1)
Yes, EC, I do remember that one...
Horrid story it was.
I have been burned a number of times, but never to the scale that this girl was doing, thankfully.
BotixStudios
02-14-2006, 07:01 PM
As of now all our projects have found been assigned. Thank you for your interest.
I would like to take a moment to thank everyone here at Grapic Design Forums for the tremendous help they have been. Please keep up the excellent work guys because I can honestly say this is by far the best independet source of freelance designers.
Looking for more? I only said a moment... ;)
Ryan Griffin
Public Relations and Marketing Manager
ryanchrgriffin(at)yahoo(com)
reuber1
02-14-2006, 07:15 PM
I would like to take a moment to thank everyone here at Grapic Design Forums for the tremendous help they have been. Please keep up the excellent work guys because I can honestly say this is by far the best independet source of freelance designers.I think this would make a good QOTW, no?
Navian
02-14-2006, 07:33 PM
we need more smilies. because I would use a rotflmao one, right here... :p
Epectasis
03-04-2006, 07:02 AM
If anybody here reads this message who has been "selected" by this company to do some work, can you please post?
Everything was supposedly fine with them up till nearly two weeks ago!
I didnt hear from the guy for over 4 days to get an email saying that he was going to be back on thursday (this was a monday) and that he would get back to me for the details (we had agreed that my work was good enough). Like i said, this was nearly two weeks ago and i heard NOTHING from him since. I've mailed him twice in between and no response.
What's the status for everyone else??????
Epectasis: I was not one of those "selected", but I certainly do feel for you. I have been having this happen to me a lot lately (in the last few weeks), and it's becoming very frustrating. Especially since some of these jobs have involved other designers who work with me, so I'm promising them work which never comes to fruitation. That really pisses me off...
Epectasis
03-04-2006, 07:54 PM
Epectasis: I was not one of those "selected", but I certainly do feel for you. I have been having this happen to me a lot lately (in the last few weeks), and it's becoming very frustrating. Especially since some of these jobs have involved other designers who work with me, so I'm promising them work which never comes to fruitation. That really pisses me off...
yeah, exactly! i mean i wasnt getting my hopes up in the first place because i was still iffy about the whole deal. Especially when i gave him my price (which he accepted). But ever since that...nothing. So i feel like i've just been played! I mean if the client changes it's mind (although i do believe that agreeing through email can be considered a legal commitment at this point) send a message to say that you changed your mind! be professional dammit!
yeah, exactly! i mean i wasnt getting my hopes up in the first place because i was still iffy about the whole deal. Especially when i gave him my price (which he accepted). But ever since that...nothing. So i feel like i've just been played! I mean if the client changes it's mind (although i do believe that agreeing through email can be considered a legal commitment at this point) send a message to say that you changed your mind! be professional dammit!
OK don't quote me on this, I'm not an attorney -- but I do believe that one of the criteria for a legally-binding agreement is "consideration" -- meaning, they have to give you a deposit or something along those lines.
I get a pretty fair number of requests for proposals each week, and LOTS of them are a waste of my time. I always follow up with those that don't get back to me (how rude) and often they just flat out fail to respond. This irks me. How totally unprofessional.
Anyway. Hopefully he'll come around -- sometimes people get caught up in other things and eventually do get back with you.
I get a pretty fair number of requests for proposals each week, and LOTS of them are a waste of my time. I always follow up with those that don't get back to me (how rude) and often they just flat out fail to respond. This irks me. How totally unprofessional.
Indeed! This is exactly what I run into, especially in the past while.
Anyway. Hopefully he'll come around -- sometimes people get caught up in other things and eventually do get back with you.
There is still that... A week, or even a month, in business time, is nothing. This is something I have had to learn myself. People will actually get back to you a month later, and think nothing of it.
I once had a falling out with a client, because I failed to take a deposit on a small job, and not only performed the job, but even invested the money into the print, because he had stated an immediate deadline (Monday following that weekend)! He didn't respond before the deadline, didn't respond to proof requests, and in fact never responded throughout the week!
Now, what he did was wrong. I did fire him as a client, never took payment for the product, and washed my hands instead. There was one thing he had said to me though which I thank him for, that which I have just repeated to you - "A week in business time is nothing". I don't hold grudges, but I do thank him for saying that to me, because I have found that to be very true statement, and one which I have never forgotten.