Newbie: pre-press, colour correction, etc.

[markf]

Hi everyone,

I've been doing graphics work kind of like a hobby for quite some years now, but as time goes on I get more and drawn into it. I enjoy designing stuff and seeing it in print or on the web, but have often been frustrated by some of the gaps in my knowledge. Sure, I have a lot to learn on a whole range of subjects, but at the moment I'm trying focus on just a few areas that I feel need improvement.

Disclaimer: Yes, I have read the ultimate resource thread (all of it) which contained some really great links, but not exactly the stuff I was looking for. I've also googled, read all the rules here, spent some time using the search function of this forum, trawled through other websites, searched around in the reviews of various books on amazon etc. So basically (I hope) I'm not a complete idiot, and my questions have some merit.

What I'm looking for is preferably some online resources or tutorials which really get down to the nitty-gritty of pre-press (or what I understand to be pre-press which is probably wrong anyway) and colour correction / colour theory, or more specifically what do I need to know about colour when I move a bitmap file (CMYK converted) from photoshop into corel or illustrator, and then to a PDF to send to the printer. Each program has colour correction profiles and then I'm somehow supposed to adjust my monitor as well. When I get the work back from the printer I'm somehow disappointed when some of the colours haven't come out the way I expected them to (for example, last time I had something which I had set to be Pantone Cyan come out as a purplish colour when I got the work back).

I have no problems buying books (providing they focus on what I'm after) but I find that I can often get the knowledge I need faster from websites. Sadly in this case this information has been a little harder to find.

So my question to all you pros out there is where did you get this knowledge from? Where should I go next? Where can I find some info on colour theory that goes beyond explaining how RGB and CMYK are different.

Looking forward to your advice.

Mark

P.S. Please done tell me to go off to design school for 3 years - this is just a hobby for me. The info I'm after at this stage is mainly technical.

[morea]

It's best learned hands on.... but there is a lot of helpful info at www.prepressure.com

[Silence04]

i'd have to say when your dealing with prepress stuff (at least for me), expirience is best way to learn... regardless of the amout of things i read, i never fully understood certain things until my own prepress issues were staring me in the face.

but the link above is one of the best resources i've found

[pythagoras181]

see...You are in the same boat as me...only a different ocean. I work in pre-press at the mo and though I can't really suggest any books, what I have started to find is that all the skill and knowledge in the world does not compare to the little voice in a seasoned pro's head to remind him/her that *this looks like the same type of job that cost you a fortune in screw ups last year...check the damned file again*
Most of what we learn is by starting off at an entry level position and gaining experience through asking insightful questions off our colleagues and most importantly...making sure we don't make the same mistake twice.

www.prepressforums.com is a very useful site for your needs but yet again...theory falls way short of practical experience

[markf]

Hi guys, thanks for your fast response! It's good to know that I'm not the only one having trouble finding this kind of info :-)

Sure - hands on experience is always good - my hands are ready - but since I don't work at this full time I'll just have to try and learn with more theory. After all - you could learn to drive with hands on experience but doing some theory lessons first (what does a red light mean, who has right of way at an intersection) would always be a good idea :rolleyes:

I'll read through both of those links, digest, and report back here in a day or so.

Thanks again!
Mark

[PersonasBinar]

15-20 years of screwing shit up will make you an awesome prepress operator. Colour Correction is an art I tell you. Colour by the numbers, not by the profile. Solid red is 100m100y that kinda thing, IMHO.

Good luck and expect loads of late nights but it can be alot of high pressure fun.
You think colour is bad wait til you learn imposition.

[Ned]

or more specifically what do I need to know about colour when I move a bitmap file (CMYK converted) from photoshop into corel or illustrator, and then to a PDF to send to the printer. Each program has colour correction profiles and then I'm somehow supposed to adjust my monitor as well.


From Photoshop to Illustrator to InDesign, you can use all the same color management. Just make sure you go into Edit=>Color Settings, and set the same CMYK color profiles for each program.

As far as adjusting your monitor, there are two ways of doing this. The best is hardware calibration, which you can only do on certain monitors. Otherwise, all you can do is "characterize" your monitor. Try the Adobe Gamma Utility, which comes with Photoshop, for that (not necessary on XP or OSX).


When I get the work back from the printer I'm somehow disappointed when some of the colours haven't come out the way I expected them to (for example, last time I had something which I had set to be Pantone Cyan come out as a purplish colour when I got the work back).


Are you actually printing in a spot color!? If you are, then use a recent Pantone book to see your colors, not anything you see on screen. If you're not printing in a spot color, then DON'T design with one - the printer will have to convert it to process otherwise, and they might have different values for their pantones than you do. Use a Global Process Colors instead. Try to get a color guide from your printer, then do all your designs using the colors in the guide, as Global Colors. They will usually be in nice round numbers, like 100% Cyan, 20% Magenta, 20% Yellow, 0% Black (PS, avoid using black in colors when designing for newsprint. For general use, use a rich black in place of 100% black - this is a whole 'nother topic - ask your printer what their formula is for rich black. If I don't have the printer's formula, I usually use 30% cyan, 100% black).

When to design with a spot color is any time that the print will contain either 1) an actual spot color, or 2) when there will be a special ink or processes in the printing, such as metalic foil, die cut, etc. Any spot color can be used to mark the special print. The printer can read the spot color as different from the CMYK seperations.


I have no problems buying books (providing they focus on what I'm after) but I find that I can often get the knowledge I need faster from websites. Sadly in this case this information has been a little harder to find.

So my question to all you pros out there is where did you get this knowledge from?

As everybody else has noted to - I got my knowledge from hands-on experience. I am also very well read, and an Adobe Certified Expert. I don't personally bother with websites - books are far more reliable, but they are also my preferred method of learning.

[PersonasBinar]

To save you grief and money down the road. Get a pantone to process guide, this will show you and your clients which pantones can be done in CMYK accurately and which ones cannot. This one little guide has saved me thousands of dollars, when you can show someone that the company colour CANNOT be hit and they must pony up the cake for the bucket of ink and a five colour run. Live it love it.

[PrintDriver]

Ned's advice doesn't apply to my end of the business where everything is done in spot or Pantone Process numbered colors and if you convert to Process CMYK colors or use that damn PMS to Process guide I will haunt your phone and email until you send me PMS numbers. (I'm serious.)

My advice is to talk to some of the printers you use. Ask them for the specific pdf settings they want and how they want their color set up. Many to most printers won't color correct a file sent in pdf form.

Some printers will even give you the correct ICC profiles to drop into your programs. While most 4-color printers follow the same rules, each has it's own idiosynchrosies. Wide format guys like me, we have multiple personality disorder. What works for color on this inkjet over here may not work on that one over there - and so on ad nauseum.
Talk to your printer.

[Vikia]

You know, after all these years, I have NEVER trusted my monitor for color. Even after calibration. What I trust are those little numbers next to CMYK in your Info menu or in your Color menu. I get the most accurate results when I tune in to the numbers and not what I am viewing. I take eyedropper readings and I check it against a CMYK screen build reference (http://www.tintbooks.com) or Pantone book (http://www.pantone.com.) if nescessary.

Color correction is indeed an art. Nothing will match hands on experience, but there are some very good references out there. Peachpit Press has a book called "Photoshop Color Correction" that is quite good. Digital-photography.org (http://www.digital-photography.org/learning_CDs_Adobe_Photoshop/learning_tutorial_scanning.html) has a training CD called Scanning and Color Corrections in Adobe Photoshop which is good for beginners.

[Ned]

Ned's advice doesn't apply to my end of the business where everything is done in spot or Pantone Process numbered colors and if you convert to Process CMYK colors or use that damn PMS to Process guide I will haunt your phone and email until you send me PMS numbers. (I'm serious.)


Thanks for that, PrintDriver... Large Format Printing is actually the next area of design which I need to learn right away, as I'm working on a new Visual Identity project with a start-up business, which will require a lot of large format printing. That is very good for me to know. Thankfully, I respond pretty well to harassing emails and phone calls. ;)


What works for color on this inkjet over here may not work on that one over there - and so on ad nauseum.


Just as a side note, to the original poster - this probably won't apply to much of what any of us are doing here, but if you're desiging to print directly off your home inkjet/bubblejet printer, the file should be be in RGB. Home printers are designed to print best off RGB color models. I suppose they just figure that the average desktop user is not print savvy, and does most of his/her printing off the web. ;)

[Ned]

I check it against a CMYK screen build reference (http://www.tintbooks.com) or Pantone book (http://www.pantone.com.) if nescessary.

I do the same thing. Only for CMYK I use a color guide from my local printer, because it's free (and also most accurate when I print from them). ;) Not all printers have them, though... I wish the one my newspaper client uses had one, because newsprint is one of the trickiest to color manage!


Peachpit Press has a book called "Photoshop Color Correction" that is quite good. Digital-photography.org (http://www.digital-photography.org/learning_CDs_Adobe_Photoshop/learning_tutorial_scanning.html) has a training CD called Scanning and Color Corrections in Adobe Photoshop which is good for beginners.

Good link, Vikia!

[morea]

a couple other threads on prepress:

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14015

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13271

[JenJolt247]

Practice makes perfect

[markf]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to say thanks for the useful links to resources. I've been busy these last few days digesting all of it. I went through the entire prepressure.com site and read every word. It was tough going and unfortunately the information there seems to be seriously out of date, but I was still grateful that it was there.

I also appreciate that many of you are old hands at the prepress game so of course it is hard for you to imagine how it would be possible to "start again" when you have the benefit of your years' worth of experience, but I thank you for giving me a few pearls of wisdom - even though I may not be able to apply them just yet.

From following some of the links here it seems that there are some books which might help me on this subject and I'll order them.

I kind of made the mistake on this thread of mentioning a few technical points, so naturally some of you responded with some (very good) tips about these. However, I'd like to keep this thread on the topic of learning about prepress, so I'll start a new thread with some of those technical issues and answer your specific responses on that thread, I'll link those new threads as soon as I've done them.

I've also started writing down my own list of questions and a list of things I don't know, so I'll ask them later or in the appropriate places.

Just one point I wanted to cover on this thread - many of you suggested that I talk to my printer. Unfortunately that is not always possible. The people I use at the moment kind of act as an agent for a printer, so I don't get direct contact with the printer. Their prices are unbelievably low and the quality of their output excellent (I was looking at the boxes of flyers waiting to be collected by others), so I don't really get to ask dumb questions with the people I'm using at the moment. My print needs are very basic, so I don't exactly have a reason to take up a lot of their time. But I'll cover more of this when I discuss some of the specific problems I had.

Thanks again guys and keep up the good work!

[markf]

Here's the thread where I answered some of your specific technical points, please head over there to continue:

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=212851

[markf]

I just wanted to update this thread with a wishlist of books that I've put together based on reading numerous posts all over the place. I'd be grateful if anyone could just give them a quick check and give me some feedback. The list is here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/19DV3X6LIUSSL) (clickable links on amazon, etc).

For those who don't like to click:

The Pc is Not a Typewriter by Robin Williams
Robin Williams Design Workshop by Robin Williams
Before & After by John McWade
Thinking with Type : A Critical Guide for Designers, Writers, Editors, & Students (Design Briefs) by Ellen Lupton
Pantone Guide to Communicating with Color
Process Color Manual, 24,000 CMYK Combinations for Design, Prepress, and Printing by Pat Rogondino
Adobe Illustrator CS2 Classroom in a Book (Classroom in a Book) by Adobe Creative Team The Brand Gap: How to Bridge the Distance Between Business Strategy and Design by Marty Neumeier
Designer's Color Manual: The Complete Guide to Color Theory and Application by Tom Fraser
Getting it Right in Print : Digital Prepress for Graphic Designers by Mark Gatter Before and After Graphics for Business by John McWade
Designing Brand Identity: A Complete Guide to Creating, Building, and Maintaining Strong Brands by Alina Wheeler