Stealing vs. "Influenced"?

[The Lurker]

How often do you find yourself borrowing,stealing,copying, or being heavily influenced by another designers solutions?

I'm in school for graphic design. I've decided to heavily research all there is to know about the profession. From design, theory, history, the do's and don'ts, dollars and sense. Life in freelance, etc.

None of that is important. just a little background of who i am.

Back to the question. To the professionals, the folks making money at this...

The job of a commercial graphic designer is to find solutions and get the job done the best way possible. Obviously being creative and unique makes your ad or logo more memorable and recognizable.....but......

Is a solution a solution? And should I feel guilty for giving a client something that's been done before? I'm not talking about giving him a big yellow golden "M" for his new fast food place. But for example, i saw a design for some kind of lending place where the designer turned the "&" symbol into a dollar sign and stuck it between the owners last names. I looked super slick, it was really subtle..and solved a problem (matthewmckim i think. dont remember). So, if a small business in Middleofnowhere, South Dakota, needed a quick cheap logo, should i feel guilty for that?

I've been studying every tutorial known to man, all types of type solutions, etc, and I feel guilty as i shouldn't use any of what i've learned. Because it's basically copying. I've seen so many logos, super clever, especially when it comes to typography...and i'm sitting here like umm...





I think this whole post is gonna come across as "is it okay to be lazy and copy?" and that's not what i'm asking.

I'm asking
1. if a person comes to me to solve their design problem, is it okay to take elements from another person design? obviously, most will say no, but what if it fulfills their needs? I mean, there was only one inventor of the cheeseburger, yet most every restaurant in the U.S. has some kind of variation on their menu.

2. How many of you professional (by that i mean, people that actually make money at this) secretly rip off elements or concepts from other people? I'm sure most established designers have their own style by now, but is it natural to piggy back initially? How many of you piggy backed other solutions and designs before you had your own style? and how long did it take you before you had your own style? etc etc?




thanks. sorry for cluttering up your board. i'm just super serious about this and i'd like to know the rules to the game and inside the brains of all those involved. good AND bad.

p.s. you can't hurt my feelings. I've come to realize that the best advice an aspiring designer can get isn't praise, but advice on what NOT to do. i embrace this cuz...i dont want crappy, cliched design work that's gonna get laughed at. i want good,effective, top shelf design work. i figure this board has a few people qualified to provide this type of direction and feedback.

p.s.s. pretend this post is wearing the same pair of jeans two days in a row. and dirty socks. very informal. i just read thru it and it came across as very robotic. if i were a complete stranger, i wouldn't want to help me after reading this. but i just got off work and i'm too tired to fix it up. so just pretend i'm your weird kid brother that comes across like an idiot on the internet. but help anyways. thanks people.

[Satchel]

Welcome lurker - I didn't read the whole thing in depth but I skimmed it - I gotta say if no one borrowed ideas then there would be no trends... take grunge for instance, that blew up recently because people took the idea and ran with it. Everything has pretty much been done, you just gotta find a way to put your own spin on it - then it's yours!

[The Lurker]

hmm. very true. thanks for taking time out to give feedback. all is valued.

haha. WOW. i think you just answered more than my design question now that i read that again. i'm applying that logic to other things in life. answers a lot of questions.

anyways, i'm takin a nap. let this post simmer. hopefully i'll awake to feedback explosion. thanks kiddies.

[Thomas51471]

Here is a great article that I read the other day that addresses this rather well:

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/copy-great-designers-steal

[tZ]

influence is caused due to interaction

You can not avoid interaction.

The only thing you can do is learn from it.

If that is to say you are "stealing" ideas then well.... everyone steals everything because everyone is equally affected by the enviornment they are made accustom to.

There for, I think the trick is making the ideas and concepts which you are influenced by and interact with your own.

This is not to say your stealing because you utilize others techniques and concepts within your own work.

However, the utilization of concepts and techniques needs to be intentional rather then a spur of the moment- and I think that is were the "line" is crossed. When people use others ideas and concepts on a "spur" of the moment whim- rather then through a process that best results in the use of others or "cliche" concepts for the communications sucess rather then thier own.

Because regardless of what you want to belive I personally like to approach my work based on the idea that everything has been done. This logic helps me to take concepts and ideas that I "know" have been used before and make them my own per the given promblem.

"borrowing" is just human nature the trick is to make what you borrow your own so it doesn't appear as so.

Some of the best work 'borrowed" ideas and concepts from others- was taht to say this is thought as stealing?- for instance the japonise highly influenced western art during the impressionism and post impressionist erra. Many artists such as van gogh, dega, lautrec are documented in using rtechniques and concepts exibited by the japanese- so is this to say that they were stealing?- I mean some even copied direct works of the japanese in order to learn from then.

There is were the seperation between stealing and learning from others begins. Just because dega and other western artist were heavily influenced by the japanese doesn't mean they stole from them.

As they used the ideas presented in japanise work and here is the key idea

made is thier own.

and- that is were the distintion lies between theft and being influenced.

I know in this whole "speil" I didn't supplu you with an answer to your question but, I don't think there is an answer. Its just something you need to learn to work with and deal with. As interaction can not be avoided and everything we interact with influences use- no matter what. The key is taking those influences and making them your own and making them appropriate per the given instance.

I mean... currently I am creating a childrens menu. Along the way I have gathered about ohh say.... 20-30 different children menus assessing design. Some of which are very unsucessfull and ohers which are highly. Now no matter what I do or think I am going to be influenced by all the menus I have looked at- correct?

So is this to say I am stealing if I decide to use a simular approach for the benefit of the communication?

I wouldn't think so because if I do result in the use of a simular style this is due to the benefit of the communication not my own. Since, I feel this is what best attracts and intriqyes the target audience.

There for, rather then being a arbituary soulution it becomes more so a thought out strategic process- and thats is the differenciation- in my opinion.

Now if I were to just take one of those menu designs and slap my information on it and be done- that is were the line is crossed. The "spur" of the moment decisions to use concepts and ideas emboddied within others work.

With that said- hopefully i didn't just confuss the hell out of you with my logic and poor grammer.

[The Lurker]

once again appreciated.

if you guys hit within 5 miles of the target of this thread, you'll be supplying me with the knowledge i seek. no rant will go unappreciated.


and Thomas, that article was great. thanks for that.

[typographics]

But for example, i saw a design for some kind of lending place where the designer turned the "&" symbol into a dollar sign and stuck it between the owners last names. I looked super slick, it was really subtle..and solved a problem (matthewmckim i think. dont remember).
you know something, i think it was matthew mckim! lol.

i think everyone else did a great job of answering your question, so there is no need for me to echo what has already been said.

matthew~

ps. blake & blake is an accounting firm located in OKC that handles major local and national accounts. im glad to hear you liked my solution!