apples new stuff

[rockem]

http://news.com.com/2061-10801_3-6044066.html

[Patrick Shannon]

As a proud Apple user, even I gotta bark at Apple for this stuff....

Geez, $350 for a boombox that does nothing unique (something like wi-fi, whatever)? Why not just buy an Apple dock and connect that to the AUX input of your home theatre? Same deal, you can also do video (with video iPods), and cheaper to boot.

A $100 leather case that doesn't offer access to the screen / controls? How does this differ than the free case that came with the 3rd gen iPods? Better yet, when cases that do offer that stuff is half that price (and lower)? What's particularly funny about this is that third-party stuff does tend to be crap (cripples the iPod in one way or another, like making it difficult to plug the cable in, etc), but Apple completely crippled everything with this.

Okay, some stuff may have been added to the Mac Minis (like wi-fi, etc), but other stuff taken away (Radeon video card for Intel Integrated graphics) and $100-300 more expensive to boot. No thanks.

I know it wasn't supposed to be a major product keynote announcement or anything, but very underwhelming and makes me wonder who up there thought some of these things were good ideas.

[Craig B]

Well, they did finally make 7200 rpm drives standard in the minis as well. I think the boombox hi-fi thing is more geared towards high-school/college kids that probably don't have room or money to set up a full system ...

I was hoping they'd release a "bigger screened" video iPod ... oh well ... maybe next time.

[rockem]

As a proud Apple user, even I gotta bark at Apple for this stuff....

Geez, $350 for a boombox that does nothing unique (something like wi-fi, whatever)? Why not just buy an Apple dock and connect that to the AUX input of your home theatre? Same deal, you can also do video (with video iPods), and cheaper to boot.

A $100 leather case that doesn't offer access to the screen / controls? How does this differ than the free case that came with the 3rd gen iPods? Better yet, when cases that do offer that stuff is half that price (and lower)? What's particularly funny about this is that third-party stuff does tend to be crap (cripples the iPod in one way or another, like making it difficult to plug the cable in, etc), but Apple completely crippled everything with this.

Okay, some stuff may have been added to the Mac Minis (like wi-fi, etc), but other stuff taken away (Radeon video card for Intel Integrated graphics) and $100-300 more expensive to boot. No thanks.

I know it wasn't supposed to be a major product keynote announcement or anything, but very underwhelming and makes me wonder who up there thought some of these things were good ideas.

umm a portable boom box, that im sure has great sound for 350 that plays my ipod and a remote, doesnt sound bad at all to me.

[rockem]

nicely designed to it looks pretty sweet

[Thomas51471]

If I could get it to network with my PC I might buy it for external storage. But I probably won't buy it at all either way because once I finish upgrades and all I could get a better PC for cheaper.

[Patrick Shannon]

Good point about the 7200rpm drives, the old 4200rpm drives was Mac Mini's Achilles heel. And while the argument can be made that the stuff they added is certainly worth $100 extra (on lower end unit), consider some stuff taken away along with the higher end unit equaling the price of the old eMac (with screen) and it kind of busts the sweet price point of the Mac Mini anyway. I would have done a $499 / $599 pricing, or at the highest, a $599 / $699 deal.

About that boom box, there are still yet (good) third party iPod products out there that do the same thing for cheaper, and sound really great (with better price appeal to the college crowd). I guess as far as superior sound quality goes, Apple is playing the "Bose" premium marketing card, but for what that box does, I can't see paying any more than $200-250 for it. In addition, this is also considered a portable unit like other boomboxes, right? Not too smart to have the fragile iPod sticking out at the top like that, they should of had it dock "into" the unit ala XM/Sirius satellite radio boombox receivers.

[Patrick Shannon]

Actually I did some checking, Apple's website says 5400rpm drives. Which is still a little improvement but I *think* one of the Mac Mini configurations in the past already had 5400rpm (the one I used to have had 4200rpm).

[Craig B]

Yup, docking the ipod inside the unit somehow (with the screen and controls still available, just in case you didn't want to use the remote), wuold certainly have been more "attractive".

[Patrick Shannon]

And does it have to stop there? :) How cool would that be if it did have it's own display and wi-fi if you could stream your music off of it from iTunes on another computer? In addition, it could even be taken a step further by losing the on-product screen, have an A/V jack to go out to a television (like iPod dock) for iPod videos to play out to. Or you could have an onscreen display to control/stream your music, etc. That would definitely be worth a look to me.

Regarding that last selection, there's some third party product does the same thing for around $100-200 (don't know how good it is, though), but that concept can certainly be taken farther ;)

[Rocketpig]

Well, they did finally make 7200 rpm drives standard in the minis as well.

Nope. They're still 5400 RPM drives.

Overall, the Minis are okay but the iPod accessories are crap IMO. Overpriced and underpowered.

$350 for that boombox? I'll stick with my $1200 home theatre system, thank you very much.

[reuber1]

I got a "home theatre" system from when I was working at Target for $37. Being in charge of electronics when all that stuff goes clearance can be a good thing. I put quotes on "home theatre" because it's normally only $150...and it's Magnavox.

[Rocketpig]

I got a "home theatre" system from when I was working at Target for $37. Being in charge of electronics when all that stuff goes clearance can be a good thing. I put quotes on "home theatre" because it's normally only $150...and it's Magnavox.

The sad thing is that your $150 system probably won't sound much different from the Apple system...

And you know what you can do with your leftover $200?

BUY A F***ING IPOD!

[Patrick Shannon]

Yeah, stepping away from Apple's box, I never could understand the marketing hype how single speaker(s) units like Bose can sounds like it immerses the room with symphony (or whatever marketing buzz words they used). My friends and I played with a Bose, we weren't impressed.

It's all about the speaker placements, daddy. Two fronts. One center. Two rears. And a sub. Place those speakers in the room correctly, and 5.1 goodness right there. (And can be taken even farther with higher grade units).

Sure, not everything will support 5.1 (iPod in this case), but it's still going to sound a lot better with true speakers surrounding the joint as opposed to "virtual sound."

[Craig B]

Nope. They're still 5400 RPM drives.

Weird, I can see on their main spec page where it lists 5400 drives, but if you start customiing your order and you select learn more on the hard drive section you see this ... I knew I wasn't crazy.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7922/harddrive4zk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[PrintDriver]

Did you play with a Bose home theatre system?
My sis has one and boy is it suweet.

As for listening to mpgs on a tiny ipod stuck into a boom box, no thanks. I actually still prefer to hear all of the music. It took a long time for me to get used to music on CDs. It sounds dead to me as opposed to vinyl. But where the heck do you find vinyl these days...?

I digress. Who wants a Mac mini anyway. Too small to do real work on and tough to upgrade.
:D

[Silence04]

they still make vinyl! for pretty much all new albums, you just have to special order them.

[PrintDriver]

I guess I shoulda specified Analog vinyl. But let's not wander too far off topic.
If you have any good links, PM me Silence!

[reuber1]

Did you play with a Bose home theatre system?
My sis has one and boy is it suweet.

Oh god, in my last three months at bullseye hellhole we had one of those on display on a front endcap, about two aisles away from the counter. There was a large red button that you push (it said "PUSH ME" in big print, and it was low enough for kids to hit). They do sound AWESOME, however, they had it on WAY too loud. When someone pushed it, we basically had to forget about talking to someone for the next two minutes because you couldn't hear at all. They did away with those after what was I think the entire companies electronics workers complained about it on targetsucks.com...at least I think they did, I don't go there much anymore LOL.

Anyways, those things are awesome. I would seriously consider purchasing some dualdisc CDs and play them back through that, even if I owned the regular CD to begin with. They are nice.

[rockem]

those ipod players that are like 100 to 150 bucks are crap, The bose and the kiplisch are pretty sweet sounding, The kiplisch is like 25 bucks cheaper than the bose, I have the bose and it sounds great. I have seen alot of display models of the bose that sound like crap cuz they get abused and usually a speaker is blown or something.
As for the ipod sticking out, what is wrong with that if you loose your remote you can still access the control panel, if it wasnt sticking out and you loose the remote it would be a pain to change stuff. And if your dumb enough to carry the speaker around with the ipod docked in it, well then your just asking to break something.

[rockem]

Did you play with a Bose home theatre system?
My sis has one and boy is it suweet.

As for listening to mpgs on a tiny ipod stuck into a boom box, no thanks. I actually still prefer to hear all of the music. It took a long time for me to get used to music on CDs. It sounds dead to me as opposed to vinyl. But where the heck do you find vinyl these days...?

I digress. Who wants a Mac mini anyway. Too small to do real work on and tough to upgrade.
:D

where you at PD? there isnt a record store around your area for vinyl?

[PrintDriver]

Oh, I'm sure there's someplace in Boston...probably. But not local to me, no. I live in the sticks.

[Patrick Shannon]

those ipod players that are like 100 to 150 bucks are crap,

I bought someone one of them for Xmas for their Mini, it sounds pretty damned good for being such a small unit.


As for the ipod sticking out, what is wrong with that if you loose your remote you can still access the control panel, if it wasnt sticking out and you loose the remote it would be a pain to change stuff. And if your dumb enough to carry the speaker around with the ipod docked in it, well then your just asking to break something.

Except it is intended to also be moved around like a boombox (runs on batteries), making this a HUGE oversight. As someone else had suggested, they could have made it dock into the unit where the screen and panel was still very easily accessible (third parties have already pulled this off effectively). As I said, satellite radio receivers (like the Delphi) have the same concept.

Yeesh, anyone read Macrumors? 1058 negatives for the Hi-Fi story.

[rockem]

well when you move it take it out, I mean how often do you plan on moving the thing once you get it to where your going?
a satellite radio receiver is way different than an ipod control wise
most third party ones stick out just like the apple one, actually I dont know of one that doesnt stick out

[Patrick Shannon]

well when you move it take it out, I mean how often do you plan on moving the thing once you get it to where your going?

The question is not "why" but "why not" have it dock in a safer and more "integrated" manner in a unit that advertises portability. It doesn't even matter if you've found a "nesting" spot for boombox and docked your iPod to play it, just one accidental elbow or whatnot in that thin little dock is going to send your poor iPod flying. (Much more viable in popular places to bring a portable music unit such as parks, camping trips, etc.) I've actually knocked my iPod out of it's dock on a few occasions, fortunately it just had desk to fall on. But to be fair, I don't think it really matters if the boombox on something like a bookshelf around the home.

While Apple has put some truly awesome stuff out (lovin' my new Intel iMac), they are NOT immune to design and functional flaws. I think one of the last situations like this had to do with the Airport Express's wireless music function (something this boombox should of had to make it worth it's price). Basically the AX can stream your music, but Apple didn't leave a way to control the music from another room, like a remote. (A no-brainer. Fortunately a third party eventually came to the rescue). I remember all the Apple folks attempt to use every kind of rationalization in the world to defend this, one of the worst being something along the lines of "ah, people are incredibly lazy, get off your butt and head to the computer to change the song." Ha, try telling that to someone who has their computer upstairs and their living room downstairs ;) Better yet, try telling that to ME when I have put on light jazz and my date tells me she prefers something else right in the middle of fooling around :P

And on that note, I had a feeling that Apple was going to introduce some successor to the Airport Express today, shame....



a satellite radio receiver is way different than an ipod control wise

Not really. Depends on the unit of course, but Delphi's SkyFis and I think the $300-$350 Sirius portable (S50? Something like that?) operates through a jog/scroll wheel to go through menus and channel category listings ala iPod menus. The big difference is touch sensetivity on iPod, but the wheel isn't any less responsive docked into encased products. (Unless you have it in Apple's own leather case, heh :P)


most third party ones stick out just like the apple one, actually I dont know of one that doesnt stick out

Just a few, some better implemented (and better looking) than others, all considered portable units. (I actually have one more item that encases the iPod, but can't post any more pics here.) Middle one probably gets my pick for the best portable integration, pretty decent reviews on that unit too.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000ARSLB8.01-A9B09ZK9BZJQ6._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009VKJH4.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0006ZO2CG.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[rockem]

ill give you the tube one cant remember who makes it, but those others are just as prone with something happening to it, and they dont even compare to the quality of the apple, bose, or kiplisch

[reuber1]

If I remember correctly, JBL does the tube one.

[rockem]

as for sirius or delphi being like ipod, they are totally different

http://gearlog.com/photos/gearlog/images/172/original.aspx

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/ca/reviews/20041012/skyfi_og.jpg

[rockem]

altec lansing maybe for the tube one

[Patrick Shannon]

Yep, Altec Lansing does do a lot of iPod add on products and they are the makers of that center boombox product.

As for the S50, I forgot about the car dock addon with it's own knob control (though I think it's more akin to the controls that surrounded the 1st gen iPod, or maybe even that new iPod remote), yep, it controls differently away from it...

http://cdn.sirius.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobtable=ImageAsset&blobcol=urlimage&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1132007360089 ....but I'm going to go ahead and admit the S50 might be a bad example. Maybe I should have mentioned the Sirius Sportster instead. That has a more true jobwheel / knob somewhat similar to the SkyFi as the unit is very "SkyFi-ish".

I already said it, the way to move around the Delphi (except when moving between categories) is with the jog wheel, and the concept of the jog wheel is NOT different than that of the scroll wheel, except for not being touch sensitive and having the "click" resistance as you turn it. Heck, if I wanted to simplify it, then I could say that the iPod scroll wheel could be somewhat compared to the channel knobs on an old television set.

Anyway, the whole point I am trying to make is that the jog wheel on Delphis is no less functional when docked in boombox, and ditto for the scroll wheel on iPod when docked in one of these units that "holds" it. You don't have to wrap your hand completely around iPod in order to work it easily, kind of why the scroll wheel is awesome.

Quality can't be judged since the Hi-Fi is not out yet anyway, and (if you mean sound quality) the sound was never under debate, just the extreme price tag for less features. I'm sure sites like Macworld will be all over the boombox audio quality once they get a unit for review.

The other two units have it sticking out at the top a little, but not anywhere to the extremity as Hi-Fi, and both have a back for it to rest against. Hi-Fi doesn't (spin it around in Quicktime VR). Gravity can't be argued ;)