Best program for graphic design ? E-commerce focus

[Ryan_Carter]

Hello All,

First Post.

This looks like a great community you have here and I look forward to participating.

That being said I am in the process of building a small retail computer company and need to build up some of my graphic design skills and then apply that knowledge at work.

I would like to know what program/programs are the preferred industry standards for graphic design? I need to start developing logos and content for an ecommerce site that is currently in the works.

Here are two examples of the type of content I would like to create: (not sure if I can insert pictures here, but I'll try)

http://www.justpetehere.com/media/apple-logo.png
http://www.eurogamer.net/assets/converted/pics/reviews/pentium4/a_med_p4_logo.jpg


I have a very diverse technical and business background...Related to the topic at hand I have a decent working knowledge of HTML, Flash and primarily design in Dreamweaver and Fireworks.

Fireworks seems extremely limited when it comes to actual graphics creation.

I was thinking one of the newer versions of Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator. The graphics I have in mind would be designed from scratch for use on my future website.

Also can anyone recommend a book or two that can get me designing decent content fast?

Thanks again for the help!

When the site is done, I'll let you all know. Maybe I can help some of you get into a decent computer system someday.

Ryan.

[cjoe]

Hire a designer. it will save you money on software (think 500 bucks US) and you will get a professional result.
For the type of graphics that you will produce on a day to day basis, fireworks is a good solution, but for a business id you might want to use the Adobe creative suite, which will cost you an arm and a leg, for somthing that you dont know how to use.
Plus designers have access to things such as font libraries and stock photos.

[EC]

^ what he said.

[typographics]

can we persuade you not to make bubble logos?

[cjoe]

can we persuade you not to make bubble logos?

at the expense of swooshes, lens flares, bevels and drop shadows?...

[carter the artist]

just because you own a hammer doesn't make you qualified to build a house.

[orkaknos12]

HAH! Isn't this the typical 'ignorant client' everyone's worried about?

"Design can't be that hard.. all I need is the tools."

"Business can't be that hard all I need is a desk and a chair."

So yeah, before you go and screw up your own company's look with some half assed web template and a swoosh logo, go talk to someone who knows what to do and pay attention to what they tell you. It really does take years and years to learn this stuff.

Oh and get your pocketbook ready; sane, competent people don't work for computer systems. I'd say you're looking at about $5000 for a decent identity package (yes really). Then you'll have to do some ad buys and some radio time, etc, etc, etc.

-Jon

[cjoe]

HAH! Isn't this the typical 'ignorant client' everyone's worried about?

"Design can't be that hard.. all I need is the tools."

"Business can't be that hard all I need is a desk and a chair."

So yeah, before you go and screw up your own company's look with some half assed web template and a swoosh logo, go talk to someone who knows what to do and pay attention to what they tell you. It really does take years and years to learn this stuff.

Oh and get your pocketbook ready; sane, competent people don't work for computer systems. I'd say you're looking at about $5000 for a decent identity package (yes really). Then you'll have to do some ad buys and some radio time, etc, etc, etc.

-Jon

unless its a really good one. I'm talking twin 21"LCDs G5 monster. With an external 400GB HDD, reference monitors etc. :D

[carter the artist]

oooh, if i get that computer, than I might be willing to teach this guy design. :)

[nyc_skater]

Fireworks has a button called magical logo creator, it's for people who need the software to create the design and not years of schooling or years of hard work.

Put me on order for a commadore 64...you have no idea how long I've been waiting for someone to tell me they'll set me up with a decent system...so glad you came along.

[Vikia]

Fireworks has a button called magical logo creator, it's for people who need the software to create the design and not years of schooling or years of hard work.

Put me on order for a commadore 64...you have no idea how long I've been waiting for someone to tell me they'll set me up with a decent system...so glad you came along.LMAO at nyc_skater!

[Vikia]

Ryan, if you are serious about also becoming a designer, Adobe Creative Suite is a start.

I cannot point you to ANY source that will make it fast or easy to learn graphic design. There are tutorials [see our resource threads in the newbie section of the forum] out there that will help you learn the software and a few tricks, but how and when you need to apply them may take a bit longer to understand.

I would pick up a book or two on logo creation to understand why swooshes and bubble logos may pose problems. Some of the most successful icons are simple and more powerful in their simplicity. Do you want to look similar to another brand for a specific purpose? Do you want to create a brand that defines your own vision? What do you want the logo to stand for. It will become your identifier, how do you want your company to be seen. It will become your company brand, how do you want clients to feel about the experience of doing business with you?

And how something so simple looking can be a pain in the @$$ if created for one media (low res viewing online) and then trying to actually print it large format like on a business sign or trade show graphic or on a commercial press for your stationery and business cards, invoices and advertising.

Welcome to the forum.

[geomonkey]

can i get something faster than a macbook pro. i'll do anything you want(to do with design that is):)

[Ryan_Carter]

Hahah thanks for all the wonderful responses..

I think the last one regarding Adobe Creative Suite was about the only really useful comment.

I guess I should have clarified my intentions a touch.

First, we are a small company. We have done a few million in sales. We don't have the budget to drop 10-20k on graphic design. Most of our work is done in house and is usually effective for the level we are currently at. Someday I will hire pros.

Another thing is that I own half the company. Any good CEO has at the very least a moderate understanding of every aspect of their business. In other words, it is my job to understand computers, manufacturing, web design, marketing, graphic design, economics and so forth...If I am to communicate effectively with my staff and my affiliates I need at least rudimentary knowledge of the topic at hand. Not to mention the cost savings from doing at least some of the work, whether that be GD, web etc, in house is important.

Hopefully in the near future I might be able to offer some decent money to various design saavy members of this board, or perhaps a nice $6k dual monitor, NVIDIA Quad SLI workstation in exchange for GD, but I don't quite have that much cash to throw around.

Now back to the task at hand...

My needs right this minute involve the creation of vector graphics for use on the web. Out of the Adobe Creative Suite my guess is that for this task Illustrator would be my best bet?

Can anyone recommend any literature that would help me get a working knowledge of the software rather quickly? I'm not talking about becoming an expert here.

Thanks,
Ryan.

[carter the artist]

classroom in a book, wow books, teach yourself books, The Bibles of "whatever necessary software", and anything by the Photoshop TV guys. That should help you learn a bit of how to use them.

Now take some art courses, and you can learn design... because the software is useless without a solid education in design.

[fyred1]

I like the "Visual Quickstart" books a lot.

Photoshop is probably the most used program for web graphics. You can draw vector images in photoshop, but the images don't remain vector when they are saved for the web.

[orkaknos12]

Another thing is that I own half the company. Any good CEO has at the very least a moderate understanding of every aspect of their business.


Any good CEO also knows when they need professionals and how to delegate work to good people, so they don't crash and burn trying to know everything and be a jack of all trades. At 3 million in sales under your belt, you could probably do with some serious marketing efforts. Setting up your company's image is pretty much the first thing you should consider, not the last. It's all about making a positive first impression in any business and visibility. What does your company do for marketing right now? Do you have anything on the web, in print in the local rags? You will not get even a moderate understanding of design with absolutely no practice in the tools - let alone design theory. You'll just get frustrated and waste your time/not sleep doing it after work - time better spent properly managing your start up and getting noticed. You need to weigh the benefits in the costs in your next budget consider what cut of the profit it'll be. In house will save you serious money, but may not be as experienced or edgy as an agency. if you want to attract any talent, look at about $30000/yr to start. weigh that against your profit and ask yourself how much more you could be doing if your business was to be in front of people's eyes and saying the right things. You're in a competitive business with narrow margins, so you have to sell stuff on an idea and get your hand above the crowd.

Adobe Illustrator is a program with a very steep learning curve, so is photoshop - and yes they are both industry standards - and yes they cost a lot. Illustrator is a vector program and photoshop is a pixel editor. Outside of the main programs, you'll also have to consider fonts and photography, illustrations, trademarking, branding, printing options, signage options etc etc etc, and set a creative direction for your company. We're telling you over and over again that knowing the tools does not mean you can design. While the DIY attitude is understandable on a tight budget, it takes years and years of practice to get a hang of this stuff and it's not an experiment you should expose your young company to. Literature-wise, you can check out the for dummies books and some of the quick learning guides, but you'll need to purchase the software license. Adobe offers "total training" DVDs which will take you through the basics, too.

-Jon

[Gromit801]

My ghod, the arrogance in here is stiffling. Give the guy a break, he wants to learn something.

[geomonkey]

any chance of that mac book pro. sorry im just kidding.:o