I'm not a religious man...

[Rocketpig]

But that might change. This is a religion that I can really get behind and support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarian

[Kool]

Hahahaha, what's funny is that some people really believe in it. It's not a whole lot different than Scientology which L. Ron Hubbard came right out and admitted was created to make money.

[balou]

Hilarious!!! Bookmarked for more in depth reading later. It's not really taken seriously is it Kool? Where's Morea's bleach bottle.

[reuber1]

Some people go to far, but it was originally done as a satire of the entire debate on teaching Intelligent Design alongside Evolution in schools (created by a student, no less). He figured if Intelligent Design was good enough to be on an equal playing field with Evolution, despite lack of scientific evidence to support IE besides a book that says otherwise, then "anything" should be able to be proposed and taught in school.

[Jriddim]

why does it have to ryhme with rastafarian....it makes me feel like they are pokin fun at rastafarians

[morea]

he undulates so beautifully!

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/1400/touchedbyhisnoodlyappen3ov.jpg

[Mynock]

Satire is great.

[morea]

but doesn't this conflict with the official teachings of GDF that the avatar of the omnipotent being takes the form of a vengeful pancake?

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/783/pancake5ut.jpg

[TheBluePanda]

I never quite understood the flying spaghetti monster thing.

[danedawg99]

I never quite got the invisible guy in the sky thing, either... :p

[AlexNJ210]

it is kind of funny how religion seems to force its way into things. Faith is just that, FAITH, something you aquire on your own. Something that build value for you on its own time. I really dont think it is something that needs to be taught in science class. Its just both sides trying to say whos right or not. Really, even if we do answer the "how did we get here?" question, theres another question that i think is infinitely more important and is only one that will be answered in time, and thats "Where in the hell are we going?". Its much easier for me to grasp my creation than my end. I think people really can get their heads in the sand pretty easily.
Really funny story though, great parody on the whole topic. I think its sooo rediculous that you cant possibly take it seriously unless you are an idiot. Thats the way it should be done if at all.

[balou]

What happened to the separation of church & state. If people want their kids to have a religious education, they should enroll them in a school that will do that. And is not the Adam & Eve story pounded into every kid at Sunday school since day one? And fair is fair, teach the evolution theory in Sunday Schools. OK, my 2cents.

[danedawg99]

And fair is fair, teach the evolution theory in Sunday Schools. OK, my 2cents.
YES!!! Brilliant! :D

[morea]

And fair is fair, teach the evolution theory in Sunday Schools.

My Sunday School taught creation and said that it allowed for the possibility of evolution, which we did discuss in sunday school.

My high school, on the other hand, taught that the theory of evolution was a proven fact, beyond any doubt or questioning.

[reuber1]

My high school, on the other hand, taught that the theory of evolution was a proven fact, beyond any doubt or questioning.Good.

[morea]

Actually, I don't think that's any better. If I can show respect for others' beliefs, why shouldn't they show respect for mine?

While evolution is the prevailing theory, it is hardly 'beyond questioning'. That is what science is all about, really.

[balou]

I mostly object to it being made a rule that it must be taught. And putting stickers on text books. Who really doesn't question it in their own mind anyways. It's not like "if it's not taught in the schools, they will never hear about it." You'd have to be locked up in a closet at birth not to have heard about both theories.

[reuber1]

This is what I chalk up to everyone's need for "Balanced" information; no matter how right or wrong one side may be, we have to present both opinions as being equally justifiable. Where does it stop? Why don't we start teaching Buddhism in schools? I applaud your Sunday school's effort to suggest that Evolution is a possiblity, but if they didn't, I couldn't care less, and THAT is what most theocracy* driven people don't seem to understand. You don't hear too many supporters of evolution forcing evolution to be taught in church, do you? Want to learn about intelligent design, go to church/Sunday school, or whatever. In school, I want to learn about something that has evidence to support it, based on scientific finds, rather than what a black book says.

*=Is it just me or is this country slowly turning into a theocracy?

[morea]

lol! I'm a pretty 'live and let live' kind of girl. I don't think creationism needs to be taught in schools... but I don't think that they should go out of their way to imply that anyone who believes in creationism is a complete moron, either. ;)

[morea]

Is it just me or is this country slowly turning into a theocracy?

I disagree. I think that most people in this country looks at religious people as "extremists" and "nutjobs".

Not all 'religious' people are mindless sheep. I have actually studied most mainstream religions as well as a lot of science in finding what I believe. And if asked, I can explain WHY I believe what I believe, rather than saying "cause my church says so."

But this isn't really the place for all that. Like I said, I respect everyone's right to their own beliefs. If we don't agree, hey, that's fine. Diversity is what makes this world interesting!

[Jason Fraker]

I like Donald Millers words that relate to this issue:
"There are people out there who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists, and there are people who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God doesn't exist. It stopped being about God a long time ago, and I'm just not interested in the argument."

As for creation vs. evolution, they're both theories and they both have some breath-taking science behind them. There are also many subtle shades of gray between one and the other, and different interpretations of the "facts" on both sides. People on both sides of the creation vs evolution debate have to take pretty big leaps of faith and believe whatever they choose to believe.

I don't really think we have scratched the surface in terms of what science can tell us. You can spend your entire life studying the physics of light and rationally come to the conclusion that it's made of waves, or particles. It's just not knowable at this time.

[reuber1]

The abortion bans in South Dakota make it hard for me to believe that this nation isn't heading towards a theocracy. Not by a longshot.

[balou]

lol! I'm a pretty 'live and let live' kind of girl. I don't think creationism needs to be taught in schools... but I don't think that they should go out of their way to imply that anyone who believes in creationism is a complete moron, either. ;)

To me it just says you have a lot of faith in your religion. I don't have that faith so is hard for me to comprehend. But I don't think any less of someone because of their beliefs. Or that they're any better than anyone either.

Government is forgetting some of the main principles that this country started out on and separation of church and state just seems so clear to me. It's how we can have Muslims living next door to Jews or Catholics next to Protestants or Pastafarians next to Atkins Dietarians - because religion does not make one person more powerful than the next. I see that changing now though. Look at the elections and how religious views or lack of can sway voters. Look how some churches go out of their way in telling their congregation the "right" way to vote. Ireland, Serbia, Lebanon, Iraq. It's more often than not why people divide & conquer. And it happens in baby steps - like putting stickers on books and banning books from libaries.

[chalsema]

Speaking of Pastafarianism, this is a great comic: http://www.collegeboundcomic.net/90.html

[TheBluePanda]

Speaking of Pastafarianism, this is a great comic: http://www.collegeboundcomic.net/90.html


Hm.. that guy needs to brush up on his illustration skills. :D

[Drorain]

considering the abortion debate even scientifically you could say it should be illegal...there is a reason so few doctors will perform such actions

[reuber1]

And what is that reason? Because rape and insest are perfectly normal, right? Because a right wing guy who has no female reproductive organs says it's OK, right?

[morea]

I don't think any less of someone because of their beliefs. Or that they're any better than anyone either.

I totally agree!


Look at the elections and how religious views or lack of can sway voters.

It's tough to keep politics and religion totally separate, because some political issues - like abortion, the death penalty, and just about anything else that gets really heated and controversial - are based on people's personal/religious beliefs. But you know, if I don't believe in abortion, I won't get one. I won't stop someone else from doing it. My beliefs are mine, and I don't think I have the right to tell anyone else what they can or can't do any more than I think they have the right to tell me how to live my life.

I don't think that churches should tell their members how to vote, I don't think that church members should do what their religious leader tells them without question, and I don't think that politicians should try to flaunt their religion for votes. My personal belief is that if more people treated others the way they want to be treated, this world would be a much more peaceful place!

[reuber1]

OK, that day when catholics put that mark on their forehead, whatever it is (I'm not religious, I am a retard; FORGIVE me), I remember when an older guy with that came in to Target at the food court deal, and the newer employee working the counter (ironically, a latino employee, who is shy, nice as hell, 16 years old whose family came in from Mexico, I'm assuming legally) offered a napkin to clean it, because he didn't know any better. He offered it as a sign of good faith, to be helpful, whatever. He wasn't being a smartass or anything about it. Well, this guy, this god-fearing man, TORE into him like no other. He insulted this kid to no end, calling him STUPID and YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER. Man, I wish I wasn't working, I would have kicked his ass.

Maybe all the religious nuts just live in Dubuque, Iowa then, because they are frickin' everywhere and as a liberal (a negative thing, evidently :rolleyes: ), I'm not looked very highly upon.

[Drorain]

actually this is one of the largest misconceptions about abortion, most of the time the women that get one are doing so because of pressure from the would be father.

~ref..."A Woman's Concern" a nonprofit offering shelter, counseling and alternatives to abortion.

[morea]

ugh. Well, some people are just jerks. (Actually, a lot of people are jerks, but it has no bearing on whether they claim to be 'religious' or not. There are jerks everywhere!)

You'd think that someone who claimed to be 'god-fearing' as you said would be a little more compassionate and understanding. These sort of people drive me as crazy as they drive you! Had I been there, I am sure I would have had quite a lot to say to him. :mad:

[reuber1]

actually this is one of the largest misconceptions about abortion, most of the time the women that get one are doing so because of pressure from the would be father.

~ref..."A Woman's Concern" a nonprofit offering shelter, counseling and alternatives to abortion.So, rape and incest doesn't happen then, and women can't get pregnant from it.

That's my point. If you get preganant because you nailed some dickhead in a drunken sex slop, that's you're own damn fault. However, in the case of rape or incest, I think making it illegal including those reasons is ridiculous.

Am I the only f'cking liberal leftist online right now?

[Drorain]

rape and incest do exist, but if your asking me to draw a line, and say allow it I will not. I would rather see a woman go through counseling for one thing rather than both...(the rape and the abortion)

And I would rather see the child adopted into a loving family...perhaps I sound heartless but I have a heart for children.

In regards to the criminal that commits the act, lock the bastard up for life

[Drorain]

oh and let me clarify if it wasn't abundantly clear...I am a right wing nutjob

[reuber1]

I know that.

I don't think it's fair for a someone else to make a decision of that magnitude for a woman besides the woman herself. This is the difference between pro-life and pro-choice. Pro-life is imposing a view that not everyone believes in, which is you must have this child, whereas pro-choice gives you the option to not have the damn kid or not have the damn abortion. I doubt many rape victims share your sentiment about keeping the child; whose face do they get to see everytime they will look at the child?

[D-Frag]

fiesty today...like a spicy meatball!

[morea]

oh and let me clarify if it wasn't abundantly clear...I am a right wing nutjob

I know that.

LMAO

[Drorain]

I know that.

I don't think it's fair for a someone else to make a decision of that magnitude for a woman besides the woman herself. This is the difference between pro-life and pro-choice. Pro-life is imposing a view that not everyone believes in, which is you must have this child, whereas pro-choice gives you the option to not have the damn kid or not have the damn abortion. I doubt many rape victims share your sentiment about keeping the child; whose face do they get to see everytime they will look at the child?

All this is based off a viewpoint of the supreme court decision saying it was a right to privacy. A right to privacy for whom? The woman? Well the man helped create the embryo as well, it takes two to tango. And then their is perhaps the right to privacy for the would be infant as well, as it is somehow yet to be determined if all embryo's do infact become human's...or something.

I think the courts do need to look at it again, and perhaps in a new light because scientifically, that embryo is alive and even responds to stimulus, science will back me up on that.

A doctor takes something called the Hypocratic Oath...a promise to protect and preserve life. This is why many doctor's will not perform abortions.

Perhaps something to note about the SD abortion clinics...oh wait its only one, and they say they have aproximately 800 per year. Interesting there isn't more, unless perhaps the people don't want them there?

[Drorain]

:Eyeroll:

wow I haven't even gotten religious in this discussion, wow thats a record for me

[jimking]

Confusious says "One who votes on abortion has not been aborted".

[morea]

ooh, that's true.

Oh look! Over there! Something shiny!
*runs off*

[Drorain]

now I do hope I'm not making people angry, I think this dialogue has gone quite well, but I think I'm going to tuck my soapbox away in anycase cause its just about weekend time and I need to prepare myself mentally for young mr. Dane cook...

YAY

[morea]

have fun Dro!

[reuber1]

A right to privacy for whom? The woman? Well the man helped create the embryo as well, it takes two to tango. And then their is perhaps the right to privacy for the would be infant as well, as it is somehow yet to be determined if all embryo's do infact become human's...or something.

I think the courts do need to look at it again, and perhaps in a new light because scientifically, that embryo is alive and even responds to stimulus, science will back me up on that.

A doctor takes something called the Hypocratic Oath...a promise to protect and preserve life. This is why many doctor's will not perform abortions.

Perhaps something to note about the SD abortion clinics...oh wait its only one, and they say they have aproximately 800 per year. Interesting there isn't more, unless perhaps the people don't want them there? First off, I don't know if this GETTING RAPED point is getting through. It takes two to tango, it takes one to be a rapist and one to be a rape victim.

Reacting to stimulus. A lot of dead animals have reactions to stimuli . Please show me what science backs this up that a human fetus is a developed human being, because it's news to me.

Hypocratic Oath. That's subjective to whether or not the fetus is considered a developed human being. Again, see above.

And SD abortion clinics and how there are so few. Have you ever been to South Dakota? The population is extremely small, the state capitol is smaller than a town not even noteable about a half hour away from me. And maybe people don't want them there because, well, like I said. Have you been there? That place is as conservative as they come. I get to go on "vacation" there to visit my brother, and last time I visited, I've never been exposed to such anti-liberal anything sentiment I would have to hire a P.I. to find someone remotely liberal.

This isn't an issue of WANT anyways. If they don't want to have them, FINE. THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF PRO-CHOICE!!! YOU GET TO CHOOSE!!! But who are we to say that the 800 who do want to have them, CAN'T?

[JPnyc]

Well I can't lie I do tend to befriend with people of similar belief and value systems to my own. But I'm surely not unique in this. Socrates said "A man befriends a man like himself", although he probably didn't say it in English.

[jimking]

Your right and wrong, why? Because now people are a dime a dozen, a human resource. In that case choice is easy, nobody will miss them. But in a case where for example there was a major desease that killed 3/4 of the Earth's population, do you think choice would be legal? Nope it wouldn't. The argument would go the other way for obvious reasons.

[Kool]

Everything I have read in this thread regarding abortion is completely irrelevent. Abortion didn't spring into existance with Roe vs Wade. It has been around since women and babies have been around. You can't stop it, women will do it no matter what. If it's made illegal then your daughters will die in filthy back rooms.

Edited to add: Whether or not to get an abortian is a moral issue and you CAN NOT legislate morals. It never never never never never ever works.

[danedawg99]

Am I the only f'cking liberal leftist online right now?
I'm here and i totally agree with you. I don't condone abortion as a birth control method, but in cases of Rape, incest, and where the life of the mother would be in grave danger should the pregnancy (ie WAAAAY underage girls, certain immuno-deffciencies) be carried to term, abortion should be legal. Unfortunately, there's no way to draw a line in the sand and pick who should get one and not. So, leave roe v. wade alone.


edit:

well-said, Kool. :cool:

[balou]

Everything I have read in this thread regarding abortion is completely irrelevent. Abortion didn't spring into existance with Roe vs Wade. It has been around since women and babies have been around. You can't stop it, women will do it no matter what. If it's made illegal then your daughters will die in filthy back rooms.

Edited to add: Whether or not to get an abortian is a moral issue and you CAN NOT legistrate morals. It never never never never never ever works.

I agree.

[JPnyc]

Since it's now become an abortion thread, I will say that to me the deciding factor in this very touchy subject is that a fetus is not an independent life form. It requires support of the mother to exist. As a free individual the mother has the right to make the choice to withdraw that support. You shouldn't be able to tell someone what they can do with their own body. That's why I don't consider it murder.

[Drorain]

i don't know...would it be different if we laid eggs? did we evolve into abortion?

[Rocketpig]

Actually, I don't think that's any better. If I can show respect for others' beliefs, why shouldn't they show respect for mine?

While evolution is the prevailing theory, it is hardly 'beyond questioning'. That is what science is all about, really.

Blame that on your teachers and their own ignorance. While evolution does exist and has been proven multiple times, the commonly referred to "theory of evolution", more appropriately called "Darwinism", is still very much up for debate.

[flutterby nut]

seen 'north country' dro?...takes a great deal of guts and fortitude to bring a pregnancy caused by rape/incest to term, and a great deal more to keep and raise the child...every time it moves/you look at the child, the negative memory is there in full color...the mother has to be willing to live with that, and if she can't, she deserves the right to choose...it's also difficult for the child to assimilate as well...he's a misfit from day one...hardly fair for them either...just thoughts.

[JPnyc]

Yes, that would be different. An egg no longer requires the mother's physical support. If it were possible to take a human fetus from the mother and successfully incubate it to independence, then there would be no excuse for allowing it to die.

[AlexNJ210]

first of all, creationism and evolution theory not only address the notion of how life forms have developed. it goes way further back than that. Evolution theory starts with the birth of the universe. Big Bang theory and expanding universe are all part of evolution theory, they walk hand in hand really. People who are putting this intelegent design theory thing into classrooms are trying to undermine the evolution theory. They are terrified of a generation growing up believing that the universe did NOT begin with God. Its the old chicken or the egg argument but on a galactic scale. Its not about how animals compete and darwinism, its about why everything exists at all. Evolution theory litterally leads one to believe there is no one governing controling entity in nature or the universe, that everything is purely free unguided and totally OUT OF CONTROL. Creationism says that SOMEONE IS WATCHING, JUDGING, CALCULATING, scaring the daylights out of people, scaring them into moral submission. Maybe the smart thing to do would be to take all the scientific data, moral applications(from religion), and smash them together in a new curriculum that teaches people to think for themselves. The creation theory is totally irrelevant because WE WILL NEVER KNOW. Believe what you want to believe, BUT let the next guy have his own belief too. That would save MANY lives and headaches and silly arguments like this one that shift to abortion all of a sudden.

[AlexNJ210]

Another thing. Its the greatest question of man to know WHY WE ARE HERE. Is life utterly meaningless, OR are we living with purpose, does our life amount to something some higher meaning, some end that has had an impact on the next life ...something...are we moving toward something. Fact of the matter is that religion does not hold an answer as to why we are here, otherwise we wouldnt be asking. All it tells us is that God creates us, sends us to life, and in death we go back. What in the hell for!!!!! That is just as meaningless an idea as the evolution model proposes. The major problem with people is that we cannot accept the fact that our life is no more or less valuable as the deer that was hit by a car. We have become so dominant over our environment that we believe we are somehow a higher force, something utterly above it, as though we couldnt possibly have emerged from such a mindless, emotionless, world. But if you really think about it, we ARE the greatest race of living beings in our world(that includes all life forms), if thats not something to give value to your life then maybe we ve all gone nuts.

[nyc_skater]

I'm with you boss...


YES!!! Brilliant! :D

[cjoe]

LMFAO! its what i've been looking for all these years. mmmmm beer volcano.