What is the GD industry like in terms of employment?

[paradoX]

I'm a graphic design student currently studying in Pittsburgh for a Bachelor's degree with a projected graduation of Fall of 2007. Since I'll be graduating relatively soon, I'm very eager to know what the job market is like, or the employment rate, for graphic designers is. My goal is to stay in or near Pittsburgh as it's where I've lived my whole life but if I'm forced to move, it may be possible.

In essence, I'm worried as hell about not finding a job. I'm doing good in school, I'm very savvy with the desktop publishing programs and I'm getting better everyday as a designer but this obviously doesn't assure me anything. I've taken all of my instructors' advice but still I don't feel optimistic about what'll happen after I graduate.

What should I expect and what was it like for you after you graduated?

[PrintDriver]

You a desktop publisher or a graphic designer? Big difference.

Do you have any work experience at all?

Start looking for that internship now and get it out of the way. Doing what basically amounts to an internship after college while trying to pay bills and move away from home (if that is the case) is far more difficult if you don't have any real world experience.

Do a forum search. I think Morea may have bookmarked all the threads about job hunting in this industry already in the FAQ or in the new user threads.

[paradoX]

You a desktop publisher or a graphic designer? Big difference.

Do you have any work experience at all?

Start looking for that internship now and get it out of the way. Doing what basically amounts to an internship after college while trying to pay bills and move away from home (if that is the case) is far more difficult if you don't have any real world experience.

Do a forum search. I think Morea may have bookmarked all the threads about job hunting in this industry already in the FAQ or in the new user threads.

What I meant by desktop publishing programs are the Adobe applications, QuarkXPress, etc. I have done a lot of hands on stuff with drawing and painting and I have work experience in that I've done numerous freelance jobs that they were pleased with but nothing in-house. I'm not far enough in my program to go on any internships according to my school, that's early next year but I do try and get as much freelance as possible.

My main question is what does the industry look like in terms of the demand for graphic designers?

[morea]

It is NOT easy to break into this industry, good grades or not. Even once you do, people in our position can often be viewed as expendable.

(For example, I have been laid off from two jobs in the last three years because the companies' budgets got tight and they owners felt that design work wasn't important to their bottom line. Not that I'm bitter. :rolleyes: My last boss told me in regards to an ad I was working on, "anybody can do it, because it doesn't matter what it looks like, as long as our name and phone number is on it.")

There is a sticky thread in the soap box section of the forum called "if other businesses were like graphics" - you ought to give it a read.

At the top of the page is a link to "The GDF Articles" - be sure to read the one entitled "What to Expect out of a Design Career".

(Apologies - I would give you links to all of this, but my DSL has been mostly down all weekend and it would take me all day just to get the pages to load. It has taken me almost an hour just to get THIS much posted.)

But first and foremost, check out the links to frequently discussed topics, here:
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7892

My best advice (if you aren't planning to work for yourself) is to make sure you round out your business skills so you can do something else if you can't find a design job right away... or so you can pick up other jobs (if necessary, of course) in between.

[JPnyc]

From what I have gathered from the members on this forum (i'm a web developer, not a designer) it's a lot like catching it in yer zipper, but doesn't pay quite as well. :D

[paradoX]

It is NOT easy to break into this industry, good grades or not. Even once you do, people in our position can often be viewed as expendable.

(For example, I have been laid off from two jobs in the last three years because the companies' budgets got tight and they owners felt that design work wasn't important to their bottom line. Not that I'm bitter. :rolleyes: My last boss told me in regards to an ad I was working on, "anybody can do it, because it doesn't matter what it looks like, as long as our name and phone number is on it.")

There is a sticky thread in the soap box section of the forum called "if other businesses were like graphics" - you ought to give it a read.

At the top of the page is a link to "The GDF Articles" - be sure to read the one entitled "What to Expect out of a Design Career".

(Apologies - I would give you links to all of this, but my DSL has been mostly down all weekend and it would take me all day just to get the pages to load. It has taken me almost an hour just to get THIS much posted.)

But first and foremost, check out the links to frequently discussed topics, here:
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7892

My best advice (if you aren't planning to work for yourself) is to make sure you round out your business skills so you can do something else if you can't find a design job right away... or so you can pick up other jobs (if necessary, of course) in between.

Thanks for the response and good luck with your DSL.

I read the "What to Expect..." article but I don't even think that's what I'm concerned with right now, earning six digits/stardom. I'm concerned with earning any digits and finding someone who will accept me right out of school. What are the entry-level jobs like and how many of them are there?

I've considered applying for RIT's graduate course for graphic design but that's two more years of school and more money, not to mention far from where I live. I figure I need to make myself as attractive as possible as I'm finding out how competitive things are.

I'm worried sick about all this.

[TooTallVal80]

I'm not far enough in my program to go on any internships according to my school, that's early next year but I do try and get as much freelance as possible.
Weird. During my last quarter in college I did an internship at this museum. I helped out a bit in the Graphics department. Mainly used Quark, Photoshop and Illustrator. But mostly Quark. But I suggest you look into doing an internship at least before you graduate.

After graduating in March 2003 I wasn't going nowhere. In between then I did some minor freelancing. Then in October I ended up doing another Internship. Lasted till April. There were some major changes in the small ad agency and I felt pushed out. So immediately after that I started working at this small printing shop not far from home. The pay wasn't all that great and plus it was part-time. But I gained some experience then. But things were slow, summer was coming the boss let me go in June 2004. After that I was jobless until October 2004 when I finally started working at this printing company again not from home. Full-time, pay was a little better.

So in my experience, it seems like doing at least one or two internships is the key to getting a job. But it all depends on your qualifications. During my experience I found out competitive the industry is and basically you just have to sell yourself. And make sure you have a good portfolio.

Hopes this helps just a little.

[orkaknos12]

To start, I'd get into some web applications and learn how to make websites and how to script stuff in any of the popular web programming languages. Not many companies are going to trust you with stewarding a brand or laying out a magazine or ad until you've done some less risky applications. Web design on general is considered by most business both a pain in the ass, neccessary and something that they're dead if they don't have one. If you can design a good website, you can write up a proposal that they bring you in house to do their identity or to maintain their current collateral - which is really what you want just starting out. Friends can really help you out in this situation. The other direction is to start in prepress and do an internship in it while you're still at school. Once you get known for good work, you'll seem less expendable. As for that expendable thing, I don't think it changes no matter what industry you're in these days. Thank the stars you're not in sales - that's an underappreciated role and very easy to burn out in. Good luck, make sure to stuff that portfolio with all the skills you can!

-Jon

[PrintDriver]

Don't be worried sick. Worry doesn't help. Self-confidence in what you can do is a better approach.

And don't let your school tell you you aren't ready.
If you are doing freelance, you're ready.
Entry level in Graphic Design usually means 3 to 5 years of experience. So the sooner you get those dues paid, the better off you'll be.

As we've told numerous graduates here, if you can't find something in design right away, shoot for prepress or production work and work up. I'd hire anyone with prepress/production experience over someone who doesn't have it any day. But a good book (portfolio) is essential too. A graduate degree means nothing in the real world - unless you plan to teach.

You should expect to start out low. Real low. It seems by the views on this board that the low to middling jobs where the GD position isn't well respected are out there all over the place. Be vigilant when interviewing to see what a position really is before making a decision. But don't pass something up because you think it's 'beneath you' either. Don't expect to break into a studio position right out of school. It could happen, but don't expect it.

[paradoX]

I'm very familiar with web design and I've done numerous sites with very pleased clients. I do agree that it's a pain in the ass and I'd much rather be working in print but if it gets me a job, so be it.

PrintDriver, what do you mean by prepress/production?

I have been working greatly on building my portfolio but it's tough.

[morea]

I've considered applying for RIT's graduate course for graphic design but that's two more years of school and more money, not to mention far from where I live. I figure I need to make myself as attractive as possible as I'm finding out how competitive things are.

Read over the education/experience links in that frequently discussed topics thread. Honestly, if I were you, I would not spend the extra money on a graduate degree in GD. If you want the degree, it's one thing, but it probably won't ensure that you get a better job/more money. It is a completely overcrowded field, but an advanced degree probably won't set you too far apart from the crowd from a hiring manager's point of view.

It's not as much about the degree in this industry as it is about your book - the actual portfolio of what you can do.

Seriously, in my current job search, I found a position that listed its requirement as follows:

"Associates Degree + 2 years work experience. Masters Degree may be substituted for 1 year of work experience."

Prepress is VERY important knowledge to have if you intend to design pieces that will be printed. If you want to stick to web design, you don't need to learn it. But if you do want to print anything, consider getting a part time job or internship in a print shop doing prepress/production work.

Prepress is pretty much what it sounds like - getting files from other designers and troubleshooting them so that they are ready to go to film / to be burned to press plates / to be printed on an actual press. A LOT of designers don't know how to set their files up properly for press, and if you don't, you may end up paying for your print shop to have to troubleshoot them.

Working in a print shop will also help you to understand why pieces are printed (and even priced) the way they are, which will help you to design in ways that will save your customers money.

Check out www.prepressure.com for more information.

[PrintDriver]

PrintDriver, what do you mean by prepress/production?

Scary...
Third year in college eh?

Go here and read some stuff about prepress.
www.prepressure.com
Then ask your profs why they aren't teaching you how to get stuff printed in the real world.

Just because you can create it, doesn't mean it can be printed. Easily anyway.

[paradoX]

Scary...
Third year in college eh?

Go here and read some stuff about prepress.
www.prepressure.com (http://www.prepressure.com)
Then ask your profs why they aren't teaching you how to get stuff printed in the real world.

Just because you can create it, doesn't mean it can be printed. Easily anyway.

I'm actually second year of a three year program. Internships, production and those sort of things come right near the end. I do realize printing is a complex process and I've read few things on it and believe me when I say I'm eager to learn the process.

[morea]

you don't have to wait for the college to say you are ready for an internship to shadow someone in a job, and you don't need their permission to get a part time job at a print shop.

I really think your best bet is to read over those links I provided. they really explain a lot.

[PrintDriver]

Sorry Mo, I didn't see you had already linked that.
Getting tired, I guess.

Don't let mean old PrintDriver get your goat Paradox. It's far too common for kids to get out of a 4-year program and not know what a plate is let alone how to prep a file for it. One can only hope your school does you justice. And don't get me started on learning wide format...
:D

[defjoe]

jeeezzz...that is scary PD... what do you mean by Prepress/Production? Se,e like we have said in hte past, colleges do NOT prepare these kids for the real world at all. It's so sad. then they go out there and can't get hired and wonder why. doesn't ANY school pick up on this? don't they get feedback?

[paradoX]

jeeezzz...that is scary PD... what do you mean by Prepress/Production? Se,e like we have said in hte past, colleges do NOT prepare these kids for the real world at all. It's so sad. then they go out there and can't get hired and wonder why. doesn't ANY school pick up on this? don't they get feedback?

I don't think it's fair to judge my school just yet as I'm only half-way through my program. I know there are whole classes dedicated to production that are later in the program only I'm not there yet, obviously. If I graduated and were asking these questions, I'm sure I'd be as surprised as you that my school didn't teach me something like that but like I said, I'm a year and a half away from graduation. I'm sure there're oodles of information they'll fill me in on.

[morea]

don't take it personally, paradoX. This is a big problem that is not covered by the majority of design schools.

[PrintDriver]

If your school does teach the necessaries, we should put its name in a sticky here.
Morea's right. Don't take it personal.

[1ooScreamingTrees]

Do you happen to go to AIP? :p

[paradoX]

Do you happen to go to AIP? :p

Unfortunately, I do.

I'm very embarassed by it if you can't tell but I try to be optimistic. I wasn't sure about it when I initially started because A) High School didn't teach me anything about college (or accreditation for that matter), B) I was lured on by the convenience since I wanted to go into Game Art (weren't too many schools that taught it) and C) it was only a block from where my mom worked - a free ride into town everyday (saved money by living at home and commuting).

What annoys me most about the school are the ignorant dumbasses that I'm afraid to be stereo-typed as. A lot of these kids are laughable but also pitiful in their ethics about school, but every once in a while you'll run into a smart one, or at least a quasi-smart one (like me).

But the real pros are the library (incredible collection of design/art books/magazines/videos - part of me thinks it's worth tuition alone) and there are some really friendly, knowledgable staff. As I've said, I originally started off there for Game Art and Design but discovering I enjoyed the boxes and shirts for computer games far more than the games themselves, I transferred to Graphic Design (B.S.). It was the best decision I've made while there. Also, the school looks to be accredited by Middle States by the Fall which will hopefully increase the value of my degree.

To briefly discuss my experience so far, I've learned a great deal in terms of the general education classes and the hands-on art classes but all the computer classes are beneath me for the most part. I feel I need to work on concept development and my creativity, not to mention my drawing/painting abilities since I figure they'll be the things most exercised. I soak up anything technical I hear about printing or any design terms but no one seems to talk about it much. I'd like to work in a print shop but I don't drive (long story). Fortunately, I'm confident in my computer abilities which I figure is a big load I don't have to worry about.

But I'd like to reassure you I'm a starving, wannabe graphic designer. I'm not like one of the charlatans at AIP who have lukewarm enthusiasm for the field. It's all I want to do with my life and I've been hard-pressed to find any remotely serious designers here at school to converse with, hence why I come on here. I'm trying so damn hard to prepare myself for after I graduate that it's making my head hurt.

Thanks and I appreciate everyone's replies.

[1ooScreamingTrees]

Hehe it just sounded like you did for some reason. I went there for 1 semester in 2003 right out of high school - got the hell out of there ASAP because I wanted an education that focused at least slightly on business...which probably made my choice to go to an 'art school' fairly poor.

Your description sounds fairly simmilar to my experience...although...I thought their general education was a joke - it felt like the professors were catering to the average freshman high school student.

Although I felt like the technical computer courses...like digital manipulation...were way below my current skill-level - I think these things should not even be included in a design schools curriculum. Technical abilities are something you can learn on your own time in my opinion - I'm in school for the conceptual development.

I came back to columbus and I'm in the VC program at The Ohio State University.

I had a "Color theory" course at AIP in which the instructor decided to teach us how to use Painter IX, and restricted us to using black and white...while making geometric patterns for assignments. Apparently he had a different take on what "color" theory was. I think it was Mr. Graves! If he's still there.

[Aaron Arlof]

Paradox, I'm a (production) designer living in Pgh. I've had the same trouble you've had and went to a much worse (i imagine) school, IADT. The commercials alone are embarassing to me. Anyway, there's been a lot of good advice in this thread so far and on this site overall. I landed my current (temp) job through Aquent doing production art. I'm not sure what the industry view is of them, but it got me a job which pays my bills. It's not the most exciting work but it gets you in places and gets you experience so it might be worth looking in to. Another problem with Pgh is that it's a who-you-know kind of business environment, which makes it harder for those not in the circle to break in.

Bit off topic, but I go to a local designer/entrepreneur meeting every month which is led by a good guy that runs his own design shop. I think you might get something out of it just by attending, I know I have. You can find out more on meetup.com, search for pittsburgh and graphic design, it should turn up.

I haven't answered any questions directly, but I've learned recently that there are many ways to view and handle a personal dilemma. Good luck, maybe I'll see you at the meetup. It's nice to talk shop with other designers since everyone else gives you the "i'm listening but don't understand stare".

[paradoX]

Thanks for the info, Aaron. I was wondering about IADT and how it ranked against AIP. What type of degree did you get, associate's or bachelor's? Did it take you long to land your current position? I guess there aren't any great schools for art in Pittsburgh, huh?

I've checked out meetup.com before - very cool site. I think I may have even looked up graphic design before but was too shy to attend anything.

[Thomas51471]

I'll tell you how I got to where I am now.

When I was in school I did work for a local University (the high price one I did NOT attend) and frat houses for the client working experiece (I got paid, just dirt).

Once I got out of school I still did a bit of freelance for various University things, but got fulltime employement in my last semester of school at a screen printer. After graduation I moved from press operator to ink mixer. I did that locally at the same shop for a year and moved to Los Angeles and got work with a Mossimo screen printer mixing ink for all Mossimo t-shirts (keep in mind I worked for just above minimum wage at all these jobs). I did that for a year, quit and used my school and freelance porfolio and a "just look them in the eye and tell them I will do anything" attitude to get a job in L.A. cleaning up adds for phonebooks all over the country (United States).

At all of these places I learned about every aspect that I could of the business (even if I didn't work that aspect) and kept using things I learned to get new jobs. By the time I left L.A. I was doing freelance, working for the phonebook company and mixing ink for an urban screen printer in Compton. In each of these jobs I was doing different things. Designing, technical cleanup work, ink mixing.

When I moved back to Texas I had enough experience from all the different places I worked to land the job I have now. I am art director and the entire art department for a national promotions company. We run the gambit of different work. But had I not have worked a variety of jobs and places willing to do any and everything and learn it all I would not have gotten here.

Over the years I have worked here I have learned more about the technology, printing, technical and marketing and business sides of this industry and next year will be striking out on my own in my own firm. Get in where you can, doing whatever they will let you and then branch out from the inside. That is the way I did it.

[FlipFriddle]

One mistake I made right of college, which I advise you not to make, is to wait around for the perfect job, or at the very least any old design job. If you can't find something after a few months, get a job doing anything, preferably something related to your field, even working at Kinko's. Keeping some money rolling in will lower your stress level and give you some time (and money) to get your portfolio together. You can do some freelance to keep your skills sharp. While you are at the meaningless job, you can spend your off time looking for the next job, the DESIGN job.

A little history of where I've been (since you mentioned game art, it's relevant I think): I went to SUNY Buffalo for Mechanical Engineering, but bombing out of Calculus made me head to their Architecture school. While there I got interested in their Design Studies program, a mishmash of graphic, industrial, and environmental design. That's where I stayed. While in school I hooked up with some guys who were making a new sci-fi roleplaying game (you know, paper games, old-school); they needed cheap (read "free") illustrators and I was bored so I got into that. My design school had NO computers (circa 1992) so all they taught was theory and hands on drawing and construction techniques. The roleplaying game ended up needing layout with Xpress, so I started to learn that. Eventually I learned all of my digital skills on my own (don't ever do book layout at a Kinko's while paying by the hour). My first job (about 8 months after I graduated) was at a PR firm where I was hired as a "designer" but ended up doing mostly billable-hour timekeeping. I left that to pursue the Roleplaying game full time, but that didn't work out. Through it though I got a job with Wizards of the Coast, where I continued to teach myself all the desktop publishing apps I could. I am a true student of on-the-job-training. I ended up leaving that job (long story), and worked at a friend's Sherwin-Williams store while I looked for my present job, which is the lead Graphic Designer at a local private University. University design work isn't terribly creative all the time but it pays the bills. In the meantime a friend and I bought out the RPG I worked on in college and now produce it on the side; that's where I can have some fun, and it keeps my illustration skills sharp (www.ssdc.com shameless plug).

I guess the moral of my boring life-story is that you need to learn as much as you can on your own, and keep looking for the next opportunity. You never know where you'll end up, so don't take too narrow a view of your life's ambitions this early. Remember, you already changed directions once in college, and that was only a couple years. I look back on that first portfolio in 1993 and wonder how I EVER got hired too. :)

Jeez, now you guys know all about me.

[PrintDriver]

Production work is basically like using a template. You have a specific format that is used. For the stuff I do, a designer has come up with the concept. Colors, fonts, image sources (if not the images themselves) and the basic panel size layout templates. Header size/font, body size/font, caption and credit size/font. Then the client supplies the copy... Ooh boy... First time around you lay it in and let it run off and send it to the client to shorten. LOL. I imagine it to be similar but different for publication production.

A lot of designers look down their nose at production people, usually calling them 'monkeys' of some sort. The AIGA boards are famous for this attitude. What they don't understand is production artists do work that frees them up to do more design. They should respect us more.

I prefer production to creative any day. I don't have to worry about running into a block and I get paid more than a heck of a lot of designers I know. :D

[orkaknos12]

I'm an Art Director / Lead Designer at my firm and I do most of the graphic design, layout and template specifications. My production artists take the load of my shoulders - big time. I'm uncomfortable doing what they do for a career, and they don't all really understand graphic design or don't really feel like getting into actually laying out the stuff from scratch, so they're stoked to fill in the framework of design systems we have. I am so grateful to have them and we get along really well. We definitely need both types of people in the world - I don't really look down on them. - the stuff they've taught me about the tools and doing things efficiently is really great.

-Jon

[urstwile]

Old school here, maybe, but back when I first started in all of this (1977, as a typesetter in the early days of computer typesetting), there was a definite separation between production and art direction/design. Art directors did tissue layouts, they sent them to the typeshop, and we executed their layouts for them. Now, the software seems to make it a given that designers, um, produce...by that I mean an art director or designer takes their job from conception all the way through to the production part.

I'm not sure that's always a good thing. For one thing, it means that people who used to have a job doing production are now forced to scramble for jobs, since the software makes it easier for designers and art directors to accomplish their goals all the way to the final product...sort of. Try searching on "production artists" on Monster.com, and you'll see what I mean. Chances are, your chances of finding a job with that title are slim to none.

For another, it seems to make the art directors and designers get bogged down in details that used to be the role of people like me to deal with. Although I'm quite sure the pre-press people are happy with the additional work they most likely have to do getting the files ready for print. Orka, you're becoming an exception rather than a rule in terms of handing things off to production artists. I work with one art director who pretty much takes things from start to finish. Apparently, however, typing a slugline at the bottom of an ad is a challenge he doesn't feel capable of...thus, I have a job. Not too far off from being a typist in an accounting department, which is what I ran away from in the first place, and then landed myself in this industry.

Lately, if it hadn't been for me expanding my knowledge of certain things, I'd be picking very little meat off a thoroughly picked bone just to get any type of actual challenge in what I do. Not to mention any kind of job security. I've pretty much given up on that to a certain extent, and am looking to move more towards design, something I honestly, need and want to learn, although I've learned a fair amount through osmosis. (sorry to all of you who went to school for it). Then again, I've considered job-shifting to being a librarian, although I hear that's a dying breed as well. :rolleyes:

I know this is kind of straying off topic a bit, but orka's post tickled an itch in me a bit. And it feels like a generational kind of thing, as well. I've been in this for 28 years, mostly on the production end, but it used to be that I was considered a craftsman (craftswoman? craftsperson?) and now, I tap sluglines on to the bottom of an ad and that's considered to be the expectation of what my role is.

If I weren't more aggressive about seeking out challenges, I'd be working at a McDonald's by now. :eek: And that would suck. Especially because their food always gives me indigestion. :p

Sorry for the rant folks. :(

[orkaknos12]

Old school here, maybe, but back when I first started in all of this (1977, as a typesetter in the early days of computer typesetting), there was a definite separation between production and art direction/design.


I don't know if it's the tools getting easier - a lot of the time, the production guys will show me stuff that makes my jaw drop it's so genius.. I was seriously stressing doing things beginning to end when I was unskilled and figuring out the profession - I can do end to end layouts and I can code PHP, but we hired pros to do this stuff in 1/4 of the time and much better executed. I love art direction and design, it's my passion , and I feel secure in my role now that it makes sense. I think it's generally that a corporate atmosphere is miserly and it's hard to get bodies in front of workstations. I begged and begged and then one day things went right, I got the production staff I needed and lack of work has not been an issue :) I think business needs to get their head out of the sand about the image and design world. When they brought me on, they had no idea what they were doing, they had silver lettering on white cards in a font that looked like a wedding invitiation, and their collateral was a word document with a 72dpi logo scanned from a fax machine dropped into the header - shudder.


For another, it seems to make the art directors and designers get bogged down in details that used to be the role of people like me to deal with.


Aint that the truth :P like I said, I'm not comfortable in the production mindspace. I think delegating to the right people is what good creative management is all about. If you're doing art direction and GD, once you get the backing you need, you can start thinking less about how it's done and more about having the vision to create new opportunities for the company.


I've been in this for 28 years, mostly on the production end, but it used to be that I was considered a craftsman (craftswoman? craftsperson?) and now, I tap sluglines on to the bottom of an ad and that's considered to be the expectation of what my role is.


ehh.. it seems like a certain art director isn't really taking care of his managerial duties. Generational, I dunno - there's good and bad examples in every industry.

-Jon

[PrintDriver]

Wow, Ork. I wish more people could wrap their heads around your mindset. It's all over the museum and show circuit but there are still many many out there that just aren't willing to 'let go' to a production artist.

Urstwhile, on Monster for the Boston area you can find 3 to 6 openings a month for a production artist. The new kind, not the paste up kind. Usually laying out catalogs for the biggies like Staples and TJX or ads for any number of newspapers (the Boston Phoenix takes out an ad a week I think, LOL). The pay ain't great and for any of them 'entry level' means at LEAST 2 years of experience...but they are there.

[urstwile]

Orka, well, I'm with PD on this, I applaud you for your understanding that you'd much rather be doing what you do best and people like me tend to be really good at what we do...that's why we're there (hopefully). Kudos on fighting to get a production staff.

Last night, as I typed the post, I almost hesitated to hit the submit button because I could see that I was venting in a big way about something that I'm continually reiterating to the art director and the creative director (two different people) where I work: why are YOU spending your time doing that, when I can a) do it better and 2) do it faster and c) you could be working on something else, like coming up with the next great campaign for one of our clients?

And I overdramatized about the slugline thing (I really shouldn't stay up so late), but what I do now is a far cry away from getting tissues from art directors who actually knew how to copy fit and actually drew layouts. Whatever happened to art directors sketching things out and then handing them off at that stage? Photoshop and Quark happened (and lately, InDesign). That's where I think the software comes into play. Tissue comps are a dead form. Showing a client a rough sketch is out of the question. But every now and then I get an opportunity to work with a sketch, and I'll just say that it makes me feel really good, because I feel like then I'm putting my own craft into it as well. Last week, the creative director at work actually let me lay out two ads "on my own!" (based on other ads in the campaign) and it just felt right, like that's what I was supposed to be doing.

And PD, yes, I didn't mean to say that there are NO jobs out there, although here in San Diego, the pickings are VERY slim, and Boston's just way too long of a commute from here. :p

PD, you also posted about how people look down their noses at production people, and that's SUCH a bad attitude to have, but it's unfortunately really prevalent, and I honestly don't understand why, or maybe I do, it's the cachet thing, I guess. Back in the old days, typographers and production houses were also accorded mention in the awards, but not so much anymore, unless the agency that submits the ad insists on it.

Bad sign: when your production manager doesn't even ever try to understand what it is you do and how much time you need to do it, how can you ever hope to get the time and respect that you need to do your job?

To wax nostalgic once again, it seems like there was much more of a partnership between art directors and typesetters/typographers/type houses back in the 70's then currently exists between art directors and production artists nowadays. The times they have a-changed.

Ahh...this poor, now wandered off-topic thread.

[paradoX]

Production work is basically like using a template. You have a specific format that is used. For the stuff I do, a designer has come up with the concept. Colors, fonts, image sources (if not the images themselves) and the basic panel size layout templates. Header size/font, body size/font, caption and credit size/font. Then the client supplies the copy... Ooh boy... First time around you lay it in and let it run off and send it to the client to shorten. LOL. I imagine it to be similar but different for publication production.

A lot of designers look down their nose at production people, usually calling them 'monkeys' of some sort. The AIGA boards are famous for this attitude. What they don't understand is production artists do work that frees them up to do more design. They should respect us more.

I prefer production to creative any day. I don't have to worry about running into a block and I get paid more than a heck of a lot of designers I know. :D

So essentially there's the idea part and the production part - that's it? So one team comes up with all the ideas and the others slave over bringing it to life? I imagined it was more interactive than that with others. There's always the freelance element which is sort of both I imagine but what I don't understand is what school is supposed to prepare you for, which part? They seem to be teaching me both where I'm at but honestly I wouldn't mind either process. I enjoy working with graphics programs and as I've said, I'm savvy in that but I also highly enjoy developing ideas. I can imagine how naive I sound.

I searched Production Artist on Monster and came up with a whopping two results for my area, one which seems more along the lines of web/interactivity.

And so based on the information on here, I should expect right out of school not to find a job whatsoever? I haven't really gotten a straight answer on this but it's what I've gathered. From what I was told at school by a rather knowlegable teacher who was in the GD field for a very long time (in her late 50s), she said that designers were in need. From what I was told, people are hired at graduations during portfolio review and I always figured I'd be one of them. The school has a high placement of graduates in their studied field and I figured that was reliable, though not something I'm choosing to rely on.

If you can't tell, I'm very confused and lost.

[orkaknos12]

If you have work, I might start trotting it out, and network with friends and people you know. Like people have said in this post before, it's a hard industry to break into, but the key to it all is being in control of your future. if you're determined to get a job in GD and your portfolio is good, it won't take long. The portfolio night event coming up looks very intimate and promising, so I'd pull out all the stops to go talk to these people if their near your city. You basically get a portfolio book review from creative directors - it's like pro helping you out with your resume. http://ihaveanidea.org . You'll hear what they're looking for and you can develop your portfolio more strategically. Guilds and Greaphic Design associations are a good thing to get into as well... most of them will do a portfolio review with you and keep an ear to the track for work. Once you get out of school and your hours are more flexible, it'll be easier to talk to employers. For now I'd just start building a great portfolio to show off your talent.

-Jon