pantone color

[MargaretD]

I have no idea what Pantone book to buy. What is the difference between solid and process. Would the formula guide work for me? I'm a freelance designer. When I bring jobs to the printer I'm always looking through their swatches.

[balou]

Is a bit of an investment but I'd go with the set. But if you're thinking one or the other, that's a personal preference. I would think the Pantone solid would be first choice.

[prepress_goddess]

if you can swing it, definitely go with the set - the pantone solid and solid to process guids will be your most used.

[balou]

Solid shows the Pantone Inks - spot colors. The Pantone Process shows CMYK - 4 color process versions.

[carter the artist]

Don't forget, they just introduced the Color Bridge, which will make the solid to process obsolete.

[prepress_goddess]

eventually, but most shops will still be using pantone to process guide when printing CMYK and converting used Spot colors - best to see what the color will do when converted to CMYK, than be surprised on the press

[carter the artist]

the new color bridge still has the formulas. It's just that they are different now.

[PrintDriver]

<rant alert>

Pantone is friggin driving me nuts.
I swear it's time to junk it and move on to something that isn't changing formulas every few years.

Now tell me true Carter, do you require Pantone Solid matches or CMYK equivalents in your large format printing when trying to match a critical corporate callout? Are you charting or using color management? Does this guide really help us? Maybe it's ok for small 4-color stuff but for large format, having the color on coated stock is not gonna help you guess the color output if you want to print on vinyl...or canvas...or Dibond... Just coated paper - maybe. Which is the least used material in my bag of tricks.

<end rant>

[carter the artist]

What we do when it comes time to do pantone colors is we ask them to call out a pantone, and we try to match the pantone not the cmyk equivalents. It's a pain in the arse. I wish people would realize that the CMYK is good enough. If it's a real problem color, we'll print out the pantone chart and have them pick one.

I have tried to bring the shop into color management, before I got there, they were shooting darts at the pantone chart and hoping it would work. They would use profiles on the wrong media just because they didn't want to profile everything. For example, They only had the 1440 dpi profile on the photogloss, but if we were printing a car wrap on controltac (which we only profiled at 360x720) and the client wanted better detail I would run the RIP with the Photogloss1440 profile. Of course this caused color shifting and more problems.

BTW, the book does come in handy, because if the client calls out a pms, I print the chart on the media with the same profiles I'll RIP their work in, and try to find the closest match to the book.

[orkaknos12]

ehh.. the bridge is kind of useless in my opinion - I've never really needed to go back and forth - it's either monitor RGB, process CMYK or pantone spots - the three never seem to cross. Just get a regular 2006 formula guide and maybe a metallic guide, since those are all the rage for some odd reason. It'll set you back a good $200, so I usually just go to the printers for the few times I need to know pantones.

-Jon

[prepress_goddess]

yep - being the printer - you have to instruct clients about color and the pantone solid and pantone to process guides offer the clearest representation as to what is going to come off of the press.

color bridge is pretty useless here - inks are mixed according to the formulas in the solid guide when printing spot, process conversion is usually right on the money when printing to density readings.

The only times i've had problems with clients not liking color is when they don't like the conversion result. Then we have to run job as a 5 color (CMYK + Spot)

[carter the artist]

well, Prepress Goddess, we don't have a spot color opportunity. We just have straight 4color.

[prepress_goddess]

we don't have spot option with our encad/onyx either - just straight cmyk.
Spot and CMYK + Spot only on press

hehe, in fact, i had a customer call yesterday asking what PMS876 would look like off the encad - after much explaining that you can't represent a metallic spot color in CMYK - I finally just printed a swatch and sent it to her. I haven't heard back yet :D

[carter the artist]

lol.

[PrintDriver]

OMG! PrePress Goddess that is too funny!
I hate that metallic chip book. When I see those chips come in it is usually for paint rather than print. NO ONE can match those colors. They do try though. Metallic flake is a tough thing to get down. I'm glad we don't print it.

Speaking of those metallic colors...Can you run those as spots on a press. I mean the ones other than silver and gold? I've never seen them used anywhere. Metallic papers and vinyls, yes, but not inks.

The other book I hate is the textile book. Puleez. Which fabric are they emulating anyway and what chance do I have of a) matching a chip to a fabric, and b) making a print to match the fabric. Crazy. Usually we just run a chart and flip the chip on it, like all pantone chips and come close. If it needs to be closer, we run a square test changing the two most likely values x and y for 5 or 10 squares each. It's usually in there. Costs money though.

But to say the pantone chip is exactly how the color will print... Only as a mixed spot color on a press. I'd say at least 20% of Pantone colors are out of gamut for any CMYK type large format printer (or lambda/lightjet for that matter too). And none of the formulae given in the spot to process book will match. Best to check before comitting your project in large format world. Many designers will try to lay hands on a chart from their printer of choice. And they are all different. A color management regimen can account for a lot of consistency, when it's maintained. I've seen it work great and I've seen people get lax with it.

But I think I'm off topic.

[Ovaltine]

At work, we have the Pantone Spot book, the Spot to CMYK book, and a metallic one, but the one I really miss from my last job is just the Process book. The one with the dashed #s, so you know what the mix is going to look like on coated or uncoated stock. All I can remember now is that the 90 to 100 range is the reds.

[prepress_goddess]

Hey PrintDriver - I totally understand what you large format plotter guys go through.

In answer to your questions, the metallic inks run great on press, we order pre-mixed tho and never have had a problem matching the book.

And you are correct in that the CMYK gamut is out of range when it comes to matching pantone colors, usually you can come close by messing around with the ink densities, but my advice to customers is that if you are that in love with the spot color you have chosen, cough up the extra money and run it as a fifth color, they are always much happier with the results.

[PrintDriver]

Wow, wish paint was that easy.
Too bad or wide format printers don't have 5th color capability. Or maybe it's not too bad...
:D
<though I've heard of a UV substrate printer coming out with the capability...:rolleyes: >

[carter the artist]

We're supposed to get a flat bed uv printer, possibly soon.

[PrintDriver]

Might want to wait on that...They keep upgrading them, at least 3 times a year. The technology is mutating FAST.