Looking for critique

[aid4design]

Hi everybody, Im a long time listener, first time poster. I recently filed my DBA and got a tax # and so Im off and running on owning my own design firm/print brokerage.. I am currently developing my first business card. I have had some feedback from some business pros, and now that I have refined it, I would like some feedback from some design pros... I want to perfect this before I PAY to have it printed to make sure I am absolutely happy... please be kind, but please be honest... I am glad to have finally joined this forum and look forward to contributing more than I have.. TIA to those who critique my work, I appreciate your insight.

..for the record it is two sided 4/4 and the pink outline is just that and doesnt print..

original removed by poster for personal reasons, thanks to everyone, see next version on pg 2..

[morea]

welcome to GDF!

why would you pay to print this card 4/4 when you could print it 2/2?
It is really just black and red, with the gray being a screen of black.

I would consider investing in a domain name rather than using a freebie email address like yahoo / gmail / etc for business. It makes you look more professional to have a personalized email address - like @airborneindustriesdesign.com or @aib.com

To be honest, it doesn't really command my attention. When I think "airborne", my brain conjures up images of birds in flight, blue skies with fluffy white clouds, airplanes, etc.

You will want your business card to stand out compared to the bazillions of others out there... you could even print it on Classic Linen blue card stock or something (even though Neuro would kick me for saying that because linen stock is a royal pain to scan art from... sorry prepress people.)

I guess I don't really see how the red ties in, or how the card will really make me remember your business apart from others.

Hope that helps some. :)

[YNOT]

I'd have to say that I agree with morea's comments. The red doesn't seem to work.

You need a more defining logo of some sort...not just type like you have it now. You want someone to see your logo and really feel compelled to use your company...you want something that ties in with what you do. As it stands now, I wouldn't really have a good sense about your design skills by what you have here.

Just my .02¢...I hope I'm not discouraging you, but I think you need to put some more thought into this and how you can better sell yourself to others.

Good luck and please, keep us posted on your progress.

[distruktor]

first off, welcome to the forum.

My first comment would be as you are obviously serious about doing this and have registered yourself for tax etc.... i would maybe think about getting yourself some web space (even if its a holding page for now) with email capability... as 'b.miller@airbornindustriesdesign.com' looks and sounds a bit more professional than having a yahoo account.

I'd probably loose the tinted logo on the back of your card, knocked back (normally enlarged) logos always drag designs back into the eighties for me.

Also the front feels really empty and everything looks squashed up the edges, i think you could combine both sides of this card into one side and it would still look very neat and tidy. this would leave you free to do something like flood the back of the card with red ink, for arguments sake... this sort of thing may make it look more contemporary.

to be honest im not really sure picking out a.i.d is a bit cheesy too... sorry im not being harsh just being truthful. The name Airborn Industries Design makes me think of aeroplanes as well (but maybe thats just me) :) and the red key line on the front looks a bit like a profile of a wing which makes me think along those lines too.

just read back what i have typed... i wasnt trying to be harsh honest, those where just my first impressions.

hope i helped

dis.

[mac.FINN]

I agree with Mo ^^
It's rather pedestrian. It doesn't really grab my attention at all. You really should take advantage of the airborn angle, there's definately a lot of potential there. You may want to look into designing a logo aswell.
My only other comment is the line "airborn industries design" needs some serious kerning.
Oh and I'm not positive, but isn't it spelled "Airborne"? with an e?

Good Luck :D

[morea]

lol, if it isn't, then I spelled it the wrong way throughout my post. :o

Airborne > airplanes > flying > take flight > preflight

"Helping your business reach new heights" rather than "Professionally created graphics." Just a thought. ;)

[aid4design]

First, thank you for your insight. Second, the websight/domain IS in the works, and so that would obviously be shifted to the correct names/email before printing as well as having the websight added to the card. To address the question about why 4/4 instead of 2/2, I work full time in prepress and printing 4-color process is simply less expensive than printing a pms with black(you get charged for ink wash ups). That being said, I WAS/AM considering paying the extra to print the pms, so I could keep color consistent throughout ALL of my personal collateral in the future. Also, the reason I went with this name 4 yrs ago, my senior yr in college, was that I really liked the "larger than life" feel that it had/has. I am really into snowboarding, mountain biking and things of the sort and really like the "free" feeling you get when you are airborn(note: it IS without an e, that is for the brits, no offense:>)) The original "logo" was simply the first three letters "aid" being lower case while the rest was caps, but I have been playing around with that and trying to work on a better cohesiveness. I think you all may be right, that a true logo should be developed. WE'll see how it develops, I really appreciate the thoughtful responses and will post back a revision... thanks again. :)

[aid4design]

lol, if it isn't, then I spelled it the wrong way throughout my post. :o

Airborne > airplanes > flying > take flight > preflight

"Helping your business reach new heights" rather than "Professionally created graphics." Just a thought. ;)

morea, I have been through about 50 "phrases" and somehow never touched on that one. :o You have impressed me, and I will be using something along that line... thank you.

[morea]

glad to help! Somehow it's easier when trying to brainstorm for someone else than when you are trying to do it for yourself. ;)

[mac.FINN]

(note: it IS without an e, that is for the brits, no offense:>))

Afraid not. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/airborn

I think Airborn has been used and is "accepted" but the correct spelling is Airborne. A lot of companies change the spelling in their name so they can copywrite that specific name (EZ instead of Easy). But to me, this just looks like an error and rather unprofessional.

[aid4design]

Afraid not. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/airborn

I think Airborn has been used and is "accepted" but the correct spelling is Airborne. A lot of companies change the spelling in their name so they can copywrite that specific name (EZ instead of Easy). But to me, this just looks like an error and rather unprofessional.

there was sarcasm in my statement, I have intentionally mispelled it, and will keep it. new words are created daily and that doesnt make them unprofessional... it will soon be copywritten and you are on the money about that being why, plus I just dont like the e on there, to me THAT looks mispelled.

on that note... I want to thank ALL of you for your kind critiques. I have taken everything into consideration and have moved to a complete overhaul of the front (or back depending on which way you look at it) and have hit on a design that I am very pleased with, so lets hear what you have to say about this one... for the record... site is still in progress, the .com version of my site will not be available, and this will be updated before printing, but for critique purposes it acts as a placeholder.

Thanks again...

image removed by poster for security reasons. :D

[distruktor]

im still not sure about your logo, without wanting to sound harsh (thats not my intention) it looks like you have type you company name and then stuck some bits onto it. None of the elements seem to have a purpose.

I would deffinatley go back and start sketching some ideas out before touching the mouse... im not sure about the red curve in the top left corner either.

on the back i'd deffinately lose that tinted logo as it looks a little dated and also my eye goes straight to that big red dot, for me its fighting with your information.


dis.

[aid4design]

thanks dis, I appreciate the insight. The screened logo will remain. Sometimes retro gets a remix and can become contemporary again. Ive never been one to follow trends and "flooding" the back with red has always looked rediculous to me, plus it is a waste of advertising space. As far as the "elements" not having purpose, I feel like the spot behind the name moving along the curve to a new height represents "taking the design, or business Im designing for, to a new height". So I think I'd have to courteously disagree with you about that point, they DO have purpose. As mentioned before, the logo originally WAS just type, with the aid being lower case and so of course it is going to look like type with some pieces added to it. As far as going back and "sketching" before touching a mouse, that wont happen... I am a computer guy, I design with the computer, not a pencil. Sorry if it sounds like Im arguing my view, dont mean to. Just responding to your critique.. which I do appreciate.. and would still love to hear from some others... Thanks again.

[mac.FINN]

I'd have to agree with Dis.
To me it looks amateur. It looks very computer driven with no real thought behind it.
The one thing I can't understand is why the company name has a lowercase letter followed by Allcaps? It's really unpleasing and I can't see a reason for it.
I think you're moving in the right direction... but slowly.

[aid4design]

not to be defensive, but what graphic design these days ISNT computer driven??... the lower case first letter makes for being different. I think outside of the rectangular mainstream that is the trends of today. I think that 85% of the known world doesnt have any clue about any of the stuff that designers discuss and alot of times designers are a bit overkill on the "artsy".. I want the design to look computer driven, because I create graphics WITH the computer. I want customers to go, "oh that's cool looking.." please understand I am not irritated, Im just explaining my disagreeance with the comments.. I kinda thought the folks in here would have appreciated the design, not think it to be amatuer..

[morea]

I think that what he means is that it looks like the concept was put together based on software effects rather than thinking through what would look best and then executing it.

Personally, I try to avoid swooshes if at all possible, because they come across as cliche.

I agree with mac that I don't really understand why the first letter in each word is lowercase and the rest is caps - imo, it would look better just leaving the whole thing lowercase, because it looks almost like an error.

Are you really into the idea of using red in the design? The word "airborne" conjures images in my mind of skies, clouds, treetops > blue, white, and green. The red seems to strggle with the name of the company instead of working with it. It could just be that particular red.

I like the layout on the back better now... although the red dot over the "i" really draws my attention away from the important information, and I don't see a purpose in that.

Hope some of that rambling was helpful!

[distruktor]

i give up...

[aid4design]

thanks for the help.

[aid4design]

i give up...


that seems to be the easy way out... someone disagrees with your opinion and you give up??..

design is subjective at best. this particular group(and you by far have not been the only group to critique it) chose to not like it and that's fine, but it's also fine that I choose to disagree with the "reasoning" for the dislike.

the comments you all made were great. it gave me insight into what other designers would think upon seeing it.. I accomplished what I needed to accomplish and I really do appreciate the honesty and directness. I wouldnt have liked it if everyone was just like, oh yea that looks good, i like it.. the reason I posted was to get the things you all dont like about it, so thanks.


and for the record, there has been many YEARS of thought put into it, revision after revision after revision, it wasnt "just slapped together"... :)

thanks again.

[distruktor]

it wasn't the easy way out... its just i could see this thread going round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round...

[aid4design]

it wasn't the easy way out... its just i could see this thread going round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round...

it would only go around and around, if you repeat yourself. like you did about the screened "aid" on the back... like I said I appreciate the comments I got, I disagreed with some of them and spoke that disagreeance.. which is perfectly ok, just as is you not liking the design.

I must say, I have been around the block a few times and never stopped to post mainly because my perception of artists in general tend to think their stuff dont stink, me included. So it was a real change of pace for me to actually feel the need to get imput through
this particular outlet.. I am glad I did, but it also prooves to me that my understanding of artists is "generally" correct. It is not a bad thing, it is just how artists are, their perception is the only perception. I wonder if the critique would have been different, if I had more than a couple posts. Ya'know let you get to know me before I ask for your opinion. Just a thought... take care everybody, I'll be around.

please believe that I DO APPRECIATE the feedback though.

[distruktor]

i'd take the screened "aid" off the back...

[aid4design]

exactly my point. professional.

[distruktor]

ahhh come on... that was reasonably amusing :p

[aid4design]

i suppose it was. :D

...perception is everything, until it becomes reality and then it is nothing but opinion.:cool:

[Craig B]

I saw this yesterday, but now the link is pulled. Can't comment if we can't see it.

[aid4design]

true. I removed it for security reasons because of the personal info that was on it, and would repost it temporarily but the file is at the house, I am at work. :o i decided I had heard enough, I knew what wasnt liked about the piece and so I pulled it. If there are more people interested in commenting, I may "x" out the personal info and repost for commenting on the design itself... thanks for showing interest, let me know if you WANT to comment and I'll put it back up tonight..

just one thing, dont tell me to remove the screened "aid" from the back... ;) im pretty set on that part of it.. :D

[Craig B]

Once again, I vaguely remember the design … so I can't really say how I feel about the screened back without seeing it again.

However, I'll tell you what I think if you'd like … keep in mind that comments made on the forum are only that. They're just comments. It's up to you whether or not you feel that they're valid.

If, however, several repeated comments keep popping up, there's probably some validity in them … but once again, it's up to you whether you feel the need to change anything or if you're comfortable with what you have.

To be honest with you, I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and if you wish to repost I'll try and give you an honest critique. Take it or leave it.

[aid4design]

thanks craig... extra insight, from an extra set of eyes, from a different perspective is always appreciated.. check back this evening i'll repost with the personal info removed, for further critiques from you and whoever else wishes to speak.. :)

[aid4design]

ok I apologize for stripping these off prematurely and I also apologize for being defensive and punchy.. stressful day in the prepress trenches... here is the current design again, personal info replaced, and I will be reposting another revision for more critique... thanks again guys, hope I didnt sour anyone from giving feedback, I truly appreciate comments and consider everyones opinion valuable... -brandon

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/4749/aidbcfinalinprogressnorealinfo.jpg

[chalsema]

One thing that you might want to consider (sorry if this has been posted, I didn't read all the posts) is moving the information away from the edges of the card. Except for the parts that obviously bleed, the rest feels really close to the edges. Also, on the front, the dot/swoosh behind the text is kind of distracting. Maybe make the big dot/swoosh the light grey you use on the back and leave the little dot at the top red? Something like that could be easier to read.

[aid4design]

thanks chalsema.. I will not be reposting a revision tonight, I am WAY too tired. :mad: (i hate getting tired, wish I could just keep ticking like the energizer bunny) but I only got 3hrs sleep last night and gotta be at work again at 7am, and Ive got monitor burn in my eyes. :o :rolleyes: give me a day or two, I will post back and will not be so defensive to the critiques.. thanks again EVERYBODY.. :p

[pantone]

i too have not read the entire thread, this is only my second post on the forum. there seems to be a disconnect between "aid" and the name of the company on the front/back. i can see that you are playing off the first letters but im not sure if that is very successful. the type you are using for your contact information is also disconnected from the company name. i think a way of solving this would be to use that typeface as the "catch phrase". this would connect the front to the back. also your contact information is a much stronger, cleaner typeface. have you considered just using one typeface for everything. this would allow your mark to stand out while showing your type skills. i hope this helps or give you some ideas.

[PrintDriver]

Don't worry about being defensive.
It's about time someone said, "no, I don't think so" to some of the 'advice' around here.
Very refreshing.

[Jeizzavelle]

Just because somebody offers advice doesn't mean they're right. In the end it's your butt on hte line so if you don't feel good about something, don't do it. It doesn't make them right or wrong it's just that they have differant taste.

[aid4design]

OK, I went back to "the drawing board" (so to speak) :p

This is a design I came up with a few years ago that I resurrected and updated. Please be honest. I dont have a back, so Im open to suggestions for one..

thanks again, having a place like this for feedback is great. :D

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1919/aidbcfinalnoinfo9mn.gif

for the record, just a bit of explanation... the silhouette is of me on my snowboard, so suggestions for how to better that as well would be nice. ;)

also, the black outline of the sun on the left that looks wider, really isnt like that, for some reason its showing up when I reduce and save a .gif..
otherwise the circle is nicely created.


thanks everybody.

[distruktor]

hi, i dont think you need the shadow around the information it seems to complicate and make that area seem cramped for space... it'd sit nicely as is on the blue background.

Im not overly sure about the font for 'design' either and if it was me i'd probably loose the keyline between the words...

but this is better (in my opinion)

dis.

[typographics]

aid4design,

okay, ill give this one a whirl.

first of all, i know you are a printer by profession, but we dont need to see the crop marks on your artwork. it makes it harder for us to visualize the finished product.

whats with the drop shadow behind the contact information? were you afraid people wouldnt see it? along with being visually distracting and unattractive, it doesnt serve any logical purpose. this card would look 1000x better if you removed it, maybe even 2000x better :)

in the logo, you decided to include a silhouette of yourself riding a snowboard. why? im not able to make the connection between snowboarding and graphic design. there are a million ways to graphically communicate 'airborn'. illustrating yourself riding a snow board should probably be low on that list. i would attempt to visually tie in the image with the subject matter, ie. graphic design services, or explore a purely typographic solution.

speaking of typography, the 'design' typeface used in your logo has got to change. thats the only advice i can give. that font was not designed to be used in all capitals and the kerning is absolutely atrocious.

the white strip on the bottom of the card is awkward and set at a wierd proportion to the rest of the layout. there doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason to how it is placed. plus, the spacing is horribly off. look at the amount of white space above 'airborn industries' and the amount of white space below 'design'. they should be the same, unless you like the uneven/unbalanced look.

i guess ill stop there.

matthew~

[distruktor]

hey Typo, i guess that grahic design (to somedegree) is about self expression and putting you own style into what you design...

and that is what skating and snowboarding are all about. Having said that i agree that its not a good enough reason to put it on your business card, unless you specialise in board graphics... maybe?

dis.

[typographics]

hey Typo, i guess that grahic design (to somedegree) is about self expression and putting you own style into what you design...
i totally agree. for example, i love typography and so i designed my personal logo around that concept. however, typography is related to graphic design. i also like classic cars, but i didnt include a '55 chevy in my logo. a logo can include personality, as long as it relates to the subject matter.

Having said that i agree that its not a good enough reason to put it on your business card, unless you specialise in board graphics... maybe?
again i agree. that was the point i was trying to get across. if he designed snowboards, or materials related to the snowboarding industry, then i would approve of the concept of his logo.

[distruktor]

if he designed snowboards, or materials related to the snowboarding industry, then i would approve of the concept of his logo.

Totally...

i think this is deffinately a step forward from his old version though

[aid4design]

hi guys, thanks. I did realize after posting that the kerning was horrid on the word "design".. that has been fixed. I am not understanding something though.. forget that it is a snowboard, why doesnt the fact that the sillouhette is airborn tie it into the name? Im also not understanding how the drop shadow around the info "distracts" from the info... if anything I thought that helped make it "stand out"... just curious is all, trying to pick your brains a bit.. I appreciate the feedback and would love to hear from some other folks as well...

any suggestions for a back?..

thanks..:)

[chalsema]

if anything I thought that helped make it "stand out"
I don't think it needs to stand out. A business card is only 3.5" x 2", so you don't have to worry about your info getting lost. The lines of the box/drop shadow break up the space in a weird way. If they were gone you'd have a much more airy feel to the card. Which I would think is a good thing if you're trying to portray "airborn."

[aid4design]

thanks chalsema
... thanks makes sense. I liked the way this looked and thought it looked too empty without, but I may revisit that.. another thought on the snowboard sillouhette... I want to look as if I remain, "young and hip". I am in contact with the younger folks still alot, hell at 30 I am still young, but I want to stay in tune with that..

[PrintDriver]

aid4design,

okay, ill give this one a whirl.

first of all, i know you are a printer by profession, but we dont need to see the crop marks on your artwork. it makes it harder for us to visualize the finished product.



You are a designer. You are supposed to be able to visualize. A bleed border should make no difference to your trained eye. If it's trained to ignore it...
I'm used to clients making that argument, but not designers.

[aid4design]

thanks printdriver... it really was just "a passing comment" to me.. I hear that all the time.. and to clear the air, I DO work full time in prepress but that does NOT make me a printer by profession, just paid consistently and better prepared as an artist. ;) ...by nature I am a creative.

im actually really hoping as I progress through my career to help close/bridge this inevitable gap that persists, between "prepress techs", and "designer/artists". there's really NO difference between the two, except for that each thinks his own stuff smells more like roses than the other. :eek: :D

[distruktor]

thanks chalsema
... thanks makes sense. I liked the way this looked and thought it looked too empty without, but I may revisit that.. another thought on the snowboard sillouhette... I want to look as if I remain, "young and hip". I am in contact with the younger folks still alot, hell at 30 I am still young, but I want to stay in tune with that..


dude im only 28... i snowboard alot to (used to ride for burton - before i nailed myself) if you wanna see whats hip check these out:

http://www.forum-snowboards.com/

http://www.volcom.com/

http://www.burton.com/

http://www.ridesnowboards.com/

http://www.dcshoecousa.com/

http://www.zooyork.com/

http://www.slapmagazine.com/new_site/

http://www.howies.co.uk/


hope that was of some help

dis.

[aid4design]

thanks dis. I visit those sites quite frequently and feel like I have a decent view of hip. I still like to try and stay different though. I have always strived to create new trends, not create within the trends. but that's just me and my perception. Did you ride FOR Burton, or on a Burton?.. big difference. ...and I ride a K2. :D it has been slow going since moving to Texas though for my fiance to do school and my deck crys daily.;)

http://www.k2snowboards.com/default.asp

oh and just like anything else these particular trends have all been set because the designer KNEW someone, not had a better vision. just my .02

[distruktor]

thanks dis. I visit those sites quite frequently and feel like I have a decent view of hip. I still like to try and stay different though. I have always strived to create new trends, not create within the trends. but that's just me and my perception. Did you ride FOR Burton, or on a Burton?.. big difference. ...and I ride a K2. :D it has been slow going since moving to Texas though for my fiance to do school and my deck crys daily.;)


I rode for burton, not US though (as i am english...) i rode for burton UK i was sponsored by a skate shop and some other companies of which burton was one... fell off a small cliff though and wrecked my back :( put an end to it all.

I used to ride seasons at snow summit in Cali... man you guys in the US now how to make fun parks!

[aid4design]

I rode for burton, not US though (as i am english...) i rode for burton UK i was sponsored by a skate shop and some other companies of which burton was one... fell off a small cliff though and wrecked my back :( put an end to it all.

I used to ride seasons at snow summit in Cali... man you guys in the US now how to make fun parks!

Definately. Im a freeride man myself. the park is fun, but I wanna ride till Im old. I like racing, but I also like just carving the mountain. not great at tricks but I can get a few grabs and 180's was just starting to get 360's before leaving the mountains where I went to School, Appalachian State University in Boone, NC... they were more like medium sized hills though. ;) still fun with great Buds. ;) best place I've been was Angel Fire, NM. I'd like to drop in from a heli one day in Alaska.. man that'd be the life.

thanks again for your insight Dis.

[distruktor]

dont get me wrong freestyle is what i used to do all the time, but freeriding is the dogs!

i think fresh powder holds a special place in all our hearts :D


have a good weekend man... im off home in a bit

dis.

p.s. this thread has gone waaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaay off track.

[aid4design]

yea WAY WAY off track... apologies for being SO snappy toward your thoughts the first day I posted Dis. Have a good 'un. Drink a COLD NEWCASTLE BROWN for me. ;) I wont get one for at least 5 more hours.
:D


so any more thoughts on the card(other than kearning on "design")??

maybe suggestions(other than a flood) for the back?...

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1919/aidbcfinalnoinfo9mn.gif

[PrintDriver]

Sorry for going a little off topic myself. I hear "I can't visualize it" quite often.
I work in production too. A weird little corner of it.

It's not so much that prepress and designers do the same job, they just do it differently while using the same tools. Each is a master at what he does. If both would only recognize that, the print world would be a better place.

[distruktor]

Sorry for going a little off topic myself. I hear "I can't visualize it" quite often.
I work in production too. A weird little corner of it.

It's not so much that prepress and designers do the same job, they just do it differently while using the same tools. Each is a master at what he does. If both would only recognize that, the print world would be a better place.


Amen!

[emmerse]

the drop shadow box is not working for me. is visually distracting and really serves no purpose other than being... um visually distracting.

How would your logo look without the orange circle/sun thing? its very out of place and again, distracts from your company name.

And I'll reiterate... loose the all caps on "design". There's no gentle way to put this, but that font should never, ever, ever be seen in all caps. It's difficult to read and the kerning still horrendous. Now, what about all lower case? that might work if you wanna keep the same face for "design"

The snowboard illustration may represent being airborn, but it's a little too literal for a design company. When I see it, I think snowboard design, and thats it. The message it conveys is too specific in my opinion.

one final thought, have you thought about changing the name to "airborn design"? "industries" sounds like you make airplane parts or something. Just a thought to make your name a little more concise.

[aid4design]

thanks for the opinions emmerse. Im not real sure about changing the name I have already filed my DBA...not real sure how easy or complicated it would be to change.. the kearning in "design" is still horrendous, because this is the same copy as on pg 4, I moved it because the thread got off topic, but thanks for reminding me.


is there anything NEW or different that someone can add that they like or dont like??... and still no suggestions for a back??... :confused:

[emmerse]

this is the same copy as on pg 4

well, that would explain that then :)

[typographics]

You are a designer. You are supposed to be able to visualize. A bleed border should make no difference to your trained eye. If it's trained to ignore it...
I'm used to clients making that argument, but not designers.
LOL. all i can do is laugh that off. you bicker with people over the smallest things. :rolleyes:

[aid4design]

thanks for your comments everybody.