an attempt at drawing

[jacambece]

For the last few days I have been working on my drawing skills and I wanted to share my progress. Here are 2 of the pictures I have made…neither is too special, but then again I have really never taken the time to try and draw. Critique is welcome, but if you don’t like them please tell me why so I can fix them up and make them better.



http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/godmode21/th_Drawing0002.jpg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/godmode21/Drawing0002.jpg)

This one is just random stuff, not sure what I was going for, but I like coloring



http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/godmode21/th_Drawing0001.jpg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/godmode21/Drawing0001.jpg)

This is some form of warrior.



Cambece

[defjoe]

I movede this to the showcase

you might want to get drawing paper, that will help. loosleaf just doesn't cut it.

keep practicing. Draw anything you can.

[mac.FINN]

Lookin' good. Keep it up.

Is it just me or is that second picture of "Jesus, Jungle Warrior"?

[PrintDriver]

???

[tZ]

All of your work is flat.

I can respect flat work when it serves a purpose but when working on your drawing skills it is best to draw things as they appear in real life. Then once you start to grasp the idea of drawing what you see begin formalizing. However, formalize to further communicate the volume of the object not the opposite as you are doing.

Instead of drawing fictional objects it is best to draw things you can see and exist in space with you. That way you can really begin to explore the objects relationship to the space it occupies resulting in more sucessfull renditions of volume rather then flat objects on a page.

Cause when you say your practicing drawing I interperpt that as meaning communicating volume on the page and non of your work even begins to show volume.

and that is what the basic fundementals of drawing are- not "illustration" as you so present.

Keep working at it though. Instead of tracing the object outline try to model the object using boxes showing three surfaces. That will create a more believable object since your showing all three axis (x, y, z) instead of just one as you have now. Which in turn is making your drawing flat and unsucessfull in communicating volume- what drawing is all about. So think boxes and three dimensions rather then the contour of the object. That is the trick to believable renditions of form and space not the contours.

[PrintDriver]

Take one of these and call me in the morning:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874774241/qid=1148316820/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-0030442-7532869?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[fyred1]

Keep practicing and get yourself a decent drawing pad or sketchbook. Notebook paper is not the way to go. Flat is great if that's your style but you should work on shading and perspective also. I like what you've done.

Take one of these and call me in the morning:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874774241/qid=1148316820/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-0030442-7532869?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
That's a great book.

[fyred1]

...when working on your drawing skills it is best to draw things as they appear in real life.
Like this? It's one of mine.
http://idesyns.com/drawingSmall.jpg

...when you say your practicing drawing I interperpt that as meaning communicating volume on the page and non of your work even begins to show volume. It really depends on what you want to do with your art as far as whether or not you need to show volume. The most important thing is to draw as much as possible, and then draw some more.

[jacambece]

Thank you all so much...i have a new drawing pad, pensils blending sticks and a whole new vast persective on drawing since i posted those. I am planning on getting some more drawing books too. i have been working hard but i am not yet at the level where i will post again. i want to make the pictures pop this time. once again thank you all.

Cambece

[reuber1]

damn fyred, nice!

[fyred1]

damn fyred, nice!Thank you Mr. Reuber! Glad that you like it. :)

My drawing skills haven't helped me become a better designer, though. I still have some studying to do. On the plus side, I just purchased CS2 (the whole suite) and now I can get serious with all of these great programs. So much to learn...

[Jriddim]

I think this may help... Try picking out a few objects... find a dominant color within the objects,, that is a neutral tone. use a peice of canson drawing paper that matches that tone the greatest...then go in with lights and darks.. It is a cool and "easy" way of manipulating shades to create depth... you can even keep it grayscale... here is an example.. i did this a while back.. it is on grey paper.. with a dark grey, a light grey,a white, and black pencil...

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/_Truth_and_rights_/threefiftyZ.jpg

[fyred1]

Nice work! I like it very much.

[Jriddim]

fryed, you drawing is quite beautiful! did you work from a photo, or did you get that person to model for you?

[fyred1]

It was a photo. I don't have it anymore.

Thank you for the compliment!

[Zendada]

Heh, the original poster just brought me back memories of high school. Thats what my notebook looked like. You might find a page or two with an essay or some math problems but those are few and far between.

Keep at it and you’ll find yourself somewhere in the design or fine art industry.

[PrintDriver]

What am I missing here?

I'm not seeing any amount of skill in the original posted drawings. Doodles in a notebook (not even a high school notebook) is the best I can come up with. It can't even be described as Primitivism.

jacambec, what is it you are trying to accomplish with these drawings? What is your goal?

[typographics]

What am I missing here? I'm not seeing any amount of skill in the original posted drawings.

wow...if i had said that, i would have two or three people giving me hell for it.

[PrintDriver]

Go ahead. Give me hell.
But explain why so I'll understand what I'm missing here.

[cjoe]

wow...if i had said that, i would have two or three people giving me hell for it.

we appreciate you ruffling a few feathers, PD can't do it all the time ;)

[fyred1]

Go ahead. Give me hell.
But explain why so I'll understand what I'm missing here.I think you're missing the fact that the original poster was/is enthusiastic about learning to draw. I think that is a wonderful thing.

Why do people get bashed for trying? Constructive criticism is one thing. A message saying -- yeah, so what -- isn't constructive at all.

[PrintDriver]

I offered the link to the book that is most likely to help.
My comment was backlash to all the "Oh, pretty picture" comments. Too much "great job" goes the wrong way too. Telling them they are going to be a great artist or designer some day based on doodles on notebook paper is condescending.

And posting a drawing showing "I can do it better" is much more ego-crushing than asking what the intent of the art was for.

I can think of at least 2 instances where art such as this was used in stuff I've printed. One job was even done in a product guaranteed outdoors for 10 years.

I'm not convinced yet that this isn't a :p post...

[Loopy Lisa]

Jacambece: I loved your top one but I adore colourful abstracts to begin with...and I too, thought the second one was Jesus avec Egyptian symbols.

Fyred1: DOOD...draw me next will ya? That is amazing work.

[typesoup]

Go ahead. Give me hell.
But explain why so I'll understand what I'm missing here.

The original poster clearly has a love for drawing and is in the beginning stages of learning how. Your first response, although posting a link to a very helpful book, was flippant and arrogant. Thoroughly unnecessary.

Your second post offered a sweeping judgment that was not asked for, nor do I, as a new reader in these forums, understand what the impetus would be to shoot someone down like that.

Perhaps the questions you should be asking yourself is why you chose this tone of voice to post in, and why you felt the need to offer a sweeping judgment I imagine you have no credentials to declare. Even the most seasoned professor does not utter such vulgar dead-end statements. I'm referring to the 'I see no skill here' which is rarely offered by even the most famous of artists unless they are being pressed or badgered to do so. Your decree was neither solicited nor warranted.

Your language and tone smacked of dismissive arrogance and a certain worn bitterness.

So I will ask you this: what was your goal in posting these "comments?" What irked you about the thread? Why did you feel the need to say what you said with the tone in which you said it?

Even child prodigies received comments like yours. I wonder what your expert opinion would be regarding the skill (or lack thereof) exhibited in this work:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/typesoup/picasso1907.jpg

I'm wondering if this is supposed to be a forum of professionals or self-absorbed, emotionally immature egocentrists.

[Kool]

Whoa there newbie! PrintDriver has a right to his opinion just like anybody else. He has all the credentials he needs to critique any image he wants in this forum. The original poster said "Critique is welcome" so it was solicited. You may disagree with is critique and debate it all you want with him. But you will do it in a respectful manner.

[fyred1]

posting a drawing showing "I can do it better" is much more ego-crushing than asking what the intent of the art was for.My intent was to post an example of what can be done, not to shove anything in anyones face. It wasn't a matter of "I can do better" at all. It was to try and back up what I said; An example of what I can do so that the statements that I made actually mean something.

People can talk a great game sometimes. How does one know which advice is sound or not? I wouldn't be crushed by someone posting an example. It would make me respect their opinion more than someone whos work I hadn't seen. It would make me strive to become better.

I view examples of peoples work here all the time and am envious of the talent that I've seen. The examples have inspired me, not crushed my ego.

[fyred1]

Fyred1: DOOD...draw me next will ya? That is amazing work.Lisa,
Thank you, so much, for the wonderful compliment! I'd be happy to draw you, given the time to do so.

[typographics]

Whoa there newbie! PrintDriver has a right to his opinion just like anybody else. He has all the credentials he needs to critique any image he wants in this forum. The original poster said "Critique is welcome" so it was solicited. You may disagree with is critique and debate it all you want with him. But you will do it in a respectful manner.
you mean as respectful as PD was, by saying "I'm not seeing any amount of skill in the original posted drawings"? you defend PD when he makes rude comments, but when other members do the exact same thing, or less, they get scolded for it. it seems like everyone should have to follow the same rules, even if they are mods...

[JPnyc]

That's not your concern, it's mine. Do your job, whatever it is, and I'll do mine. Thank you.

[PrintDriver]

Ah, I see. I forgot to put a smiley after my second post.

Ok, if you want to tell the poster he is the next Picasso be my guest. But there is far more depth (and I don't mean that in a 3D representational way) to the Picasso piece posted above than to the 'warrior' in the first post. But I don't feel like writing a dissertation tonight.

If Jacambece is seeking the abstract/expressionistic effect he should study what's already been done, what's being done, and proceed from there. Study the works of Picasso, DuChamp, Dada, Leger, Ernst, Miro, and Klandinsky (all though the last two are WAY out there).

If representational art is his goal, that drawing book is a sure way to start in that direction.

To all who say "I like it"...Why do you like it? Just saying that you do or that it's "colorful" is also no critique. TZ offered the best (and most patient) crit here.

I guess I momentarily let the fact that I'm not a fan of 'stream of consciousness art' cloud my vision here. And I also forgot momentarily that everyone starts somewhere. But looking back through Jacambece's posts I was under the impression that he was starting his career in GD or was in school for it. Perhaps a poor assumption. I'm always startled when a student who is pursuing a career in GD doesn't appear to have entry portfolio skills...

All I can say Jacambece, is keep practicing - but practice toward a goal.

[Kool]

Matthew, you really don't see any difference between....
What am I missing here?

I'm not seeing any amount of skill in the original posted drawings. Doodles in a notebook (not even a high school notebook) is the best I can come up with. It can't even be described as Primitivism.

jacambec, what is it you are trying to accomplish with these drawings? What is your goal?

AND calling someone "flippant and arrogant"

"I imagine you have no credentials to declare"

"Even the most seasoned professor does not utter such vulgar dead-end statements."

"Your language and tone smacked of dismissive arrogance and a certain worn bitterness."

Every one of these statements is a personal attack, then just for good measure he takes a shot at all of us with....

"I'm wondering if this is supposed to be a forum of professionals or self-absorbed, emotionally immature egocentrists."

PD has been here a long time and has patiently answered thousands of questions. typesoup on the other hand just got here two minutes ago. I don't know what possesed him to take into one of our long time members and member of the management on his 16th post. It's a really bad foot to get off on though. As far as this double standard you keep refering to is concerned, when he, or you for that matter have as long a track record in this forum as PD has, you will be treated somewhat differently too. Is this a double standard? Of course it is. But it's the same standard found in any social setting. The person who helped build the place is always going to win over the guy who just walked in the door. Your inability to grasp this simple concept is one of the reasons you're having such a rocky time here lately.


PS. PD's comments were a virtual friendly pat on the back compared to the critiqes this art would have received on any other forum, like HOW for instance.

[PrintDriver]

LOL. Thanks Kool. I honestly missed most of that in TypeSoup's post.
People's assumptions of my skill level - I stopped letting that bother me a long time ago.

[cjoe]

hmmmm. design is a business, i guess you get no favours for being 'soft' in your appraisal of poor work.

[EC]

End of the day, there is a difference between saying "You lack skill, here buy this book it will help" and saying "You suck" or replace the word skill with "aptitude" "talent" or "potential" and there might be a case that it's offensive.

Sometimes the honest truth hurts, but it's the best thing for somebody that really wants to learn.

I couldn't draw very well at all until I started reading and working the Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain program. A couple years back I bought the "worshop" which was the book, a video, and all the appropriate materials to get started. After just a few exercises I was AMAZED at the improvement. It's just technique. SKILL can be taught and it can be learned. It's nothing to take personally. Few people are blessed with a natural ability to draw, for the rest of us it's hard work. PD's assessment and advice was good.

Even though it might have been said without a smiley, or it may have been a short response -- all of us here that know PD know that he's an incredibly helpful, generous and nice person. So people that know him best would never think that it was said JUST to break somebody's spirit. Not possible.

That's my take on the situation, if anybody cares. :)

[urstwile]

I care!

And EC, you're dead-on regarding honest criticism and PD's general helpfulness towards everyone here in the forum. I know he's helped me more than a few times, the first time being the one that got me to join this forum in the first place.

I don't know Jacambece at all, or what his previous posts are, but I do see enthusiasm, at least in the sense of his posting stuff that he's done openly for critique on the forum. That he might need to study some more and train more, etc. seems to be a given. He's trying to learn. Thus I think in that spirit, perhaps PD was a little um, too abrupt, in his comments, but flippant and arrogant? Well, no, that's definitely a stretch.

It's hard sometimes to know when to draw the line between encouragement and real constructive criticism. However, for some reason, I think Jacambece's got it figured out, otherwise, he wouldn't have posted his work so courageously in the first place.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're putting your stuff up in the Showplace, you're looking for honest comments, not just stroking.

And I agree with Kool as well. Go over to the HOW forums, and you'll see what REAL flippancy and arrogance are all about. :eek:

[JPnyc]

No joke, I've read a few critiques there that seared my retinas.

[TheBluePanda]

Erm.. I didnt read all the drama in this thread, so I'll just post my thoughts on the original drawings..

Yeah, they're pretty much just doodles. Which is nice, I suppose, but they arent going to be paying any bills. Especially on notebook paper. Keep at it.

[urstwile]

To JupiterNYC, yup, they're real harsh over in that neighborhood. Kinda like the Hell's Kitchen of the design community. :eek: :rolleyes:

[Ghastly]

See...I agree wholeheartedly with PD here. On the subject of *drawing and illustration* I have very strong views and I am glad that there are people with enough credibility and integrity to actually step forward and make the correct statement....being honest with someone is one of the greatest kindnesses a stranger can bestow on another.

It may be possible that the OP has potential but it will never be realised whilst the benchmark for respect and ego-petting is so critically low!

As for the How forums...yes there is the odd pillock on there who gets their kicks out of crushing everyone else but on the whole the majority of comments are pretty damned accurate!

[typographics]

Your inability to grasp this simple concept is one of the reasons you're having such a rocky time here lately.
i couldnt agree with you more. i guess double standards are easier to grasp when they work in your favor. it can be frustrating to see new members get scolded for things that senior members do openly. it simply comes across as unfair. but i suppose life in general is unfair, so i can accept that. :)

[1ooScreamingTrees]

professionals or self-absorbed, emotionally immature egocentrists.

We're designers - I didn't know there was a difference! :o

[JPnyc]

i couldnt agree with you more. i guess double standards are easier to grasp when they work in your favor. it can be frustrating to see new members get scolded for things that senior members do openly. it simply comes across as unfair. but i suppose life in general is unfair, so i can accept that. :)
Don't assume. The matter was addressed. What PD said wasn't THAT harsh to begin with, but still it was addressed. Typesoup's reply was infinitely more harsh than what HE was attempting to address, and you involved yourself in it to vent some bitterness toward the crew here and the way the forum is run. I think that about covers it.

[Loopy Lisa]

The more ya'll argue and take shots at eachother the more chance you have at getting banned.
Trust me.
Designers have to be open to criticism no matter if it's good or bad but as long as it's constructive we should be able to not take it so personally.

[Epectasis]

less hate! more love!

[typographics]

im all for love :)