How to build your files?

[patkennedy78]

I'd like to know your opinions on the correct way to build your files. I know this depends on the project, but I'd like to try and figure this out the most effective way.

Just FYI I only have a year of design experience(not including education) under my belt, but I have a position as an in house designer and am getting more work that is going to go to print. I have sent jobs sucessfully in the past, but want to have a solid knowledge base. I do contact printers before hand to get specs and start that relationship.

So for instance currently I'm working on a 12 x 24 label for a package. I built this file in photoshop because it is mainly image based, with only 2 paragraphs of text. Obviosly enough this is file is getting huge, 125+ Meg. So ideally should I have started in Quark and imported 15 to 20 individual pics along with the 12 x 24 inch background image?

Maybe I'm answering my own question here, but the program used depends on the needs of the design. If this project had more text to layout I'd definatly want to use quark, but since it's mainly image based photoshop is fine.

I hope some of this makes sense, because now I'm confused, but still interested in your thoughts.

Thank you.

[PersonasBinar]

I will ALWAYS use a layout package. PS is for photo work, always and forever.

[morea]

agreed

[jimking]

Missing fonts and graphics
One of the most common production delays we encounter is when disks are received with fonts and/or graphic files either missing or incorrect. This can hold up pre-press production anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days or more, risking deadlines and leading to cost overruns. In order to avoid these problems, you should make sure your digital job is complete and correct before it leaves your studio or production facility. While several software packages on the market are designed to help you verify that your job is complete (notably FlightCheck and Preflight Pro), you should be able to "do it yourself" by following some simple guidelines.

Font management
Include both printer and screen fonts on disk. Add all the fonts you have used in your page layout application as well as those you have used in EPS graphics brought in as picture files. If you are unsure which fonts are needed, simply use the Collect for Output feature of your page layout program to learn which fonts you must include. (Here's a tip: in QuarkXPress, holding down the Option key while you collect for output will give you only the report you need without actually "collecting" any support files.) Additionally, avoid unwanted surprises by making sure you have used actual fonts (the italic face when you want italic, and the boldface for bold, and so on) rather than clicking "italic" or "bold" in the font styles palette of your application. Use only PostScript fonts made by reputable font manufacturers.

Graphic files
Make sure all imported graphics files are included on your disk. Consult the picture usage area of your page layout application (or your Collect for Output report) for a complete list. Pay particular attention to the names of files, as these must match exactly for your page layout application to recognize them. Also include photo images which have been placed in drawing programs and then saved as separate EPS files-the original picture file MUST accompany the EPS file. Always supply files in the proper color mode for printing (CMYK if your job is 4/C process) and make sure your photo images are within acceptable resolution standards (generally at least 1.5 times the line screen of the finished piece when the picture is used at 100%). Save image files to TIFF or EPS format.

Laser proof your files
It is always a good idea to include a final laser print of your job with the disk you are sending out. Double-check that all your trims and folds are the correct size and that bleed has been added where needed. Additionally, run laser prints with the "Separations" button clicked "On" in the print dialog box to output a full set of color separated proofs. This will "prove-out" each color and its image, immediately alerting you to any errors which could be the result of specifying colors improperly.
Any digital imaging professional will tell you there are hundreds of potential problems with files, many which require a great deal of pre-press savvy to fix. If you can avoid basic pitfalls, you've won half the battle when it comes to meeting your job's deadline AND it's budget!

Proof every job
Every job you print, regardless of size, number of colors, paper type, finishing, quantity, cost or deadline, requires one or more proofs before printing. ("But it's a rush job!") There can be no exceptions to the golden rule. Every job requires a proof! A so-called "rush job" can take even longer if the proofing process is overlooked. Although you might think you're saving time and possibly money by skipping this step, you could actually lose time and spend more money due to unnoticed errors in the finished piece.

What to look for on your proofs
Among the things you will want to check for are page numbering (folios), broken type, typos and cropping of images. Check to see that your digital blueline resembles your finished product exactly, right down to the last fold. Measure it! Does it have to fit into an envelope? Are the margins correct? Do the folds "fall" in the right places? Is the type centered in each panel? Realize that your signature on the digital blueline represents your approval and it is your agreement that all work done up to this point is correct.

Your last chance before printing
The digital blueline is also your last chance to see the job before it rolls off the press.
Making changes or catching errors on a digital blueline is far less expensive than to reprint the job

What a digital blueline cannot tell you
There are some things a digital blueline cannot tell you. A digital blueline will not accurately render some screen tints (especially lighter ones) and color breaks. Trapping can be difficult to check as well. Overprinting areas and other graphic subtleties are also often difficult to see.


Since the inkjet proof and the actual press proof have differing screen appearances (when examined under a magnifying glass), color checking cannot be accurate. Furthermore, in some cases and with certain image types, the inkjet proof will not reveal moiré patterns, which could develop after film or plate output. Digital proofs, on the other hand, are made from the same ripped data and are exceptionally accurate renditions of what will eventually be imaged on a printing plate. This proof is much more reliable then Inkjet digital proofs , especially during press checks.

[defjoe]

^whoa^

[rickself]

whoa doesn't even come close!
Way to go Jim! (got an incomplete job in this morning didja?)

[PrintDriver]

125mb is not unusual for a 12x24 file. Especially if the file is layered (as it should be). A single layer, 300dpi, CMYK photoshop file at that size is already 98mb...
Small potatoes. Complain when it hits 1.5gig. LOL!

You should really talk to your printer about how HE wants your files set up.
Quark may have been the better option. You could do ALL your image work in Photoshop and import the whole thing as a background into Quark and do the text over it... But it all depends on what THE PRINTER wants.

[rickself]

Seems like we're seeing a rash of these lately.
But being that people trust us so much, here goes!

OK, I've been in this for 16+ years and I'll tell you what I want:

I want your file in RGB, 72dpi resolution, build the file so it fits on your monitor (this may vary from person to person) and use jpeg as your image type.

Now, don't you think you should call the printer? I'm not singling out patkennedy78 or cass or anybody else.

But, hey, push yourself away from your computer, grab that black thing with the curvy handle and buttons, and find out what the company that is going to be making your next $$million a call.

Sorry, had to do it.

[patkennedy78]

Personas / morea - thanks for your input! I guess I need to sharpen my Quark skills. I only have 5.0 to work with, and on projects like the label I use some light drop shadows and have problems when it comes to getting the transparent backgrounds to work with me. I'll probably search and post about that later :) Fonts are another issue with my work setup and Quark.

Jim - ROCK! Thanks, great stuff, I appreciate it. I think that will be printed and displayed, probably make it's way into my own checklist of sorts.

Keep it comin' people, this is some scrumptious info!

[jimking]

whoa doesn't even come close!
Way to go Jim! (got an incomplete job in this morning didja?)
The awsome power of cut and paste! :D

[PersonasBinar]

If you're gonna get into drop shadows and the like plan your design..... you can do text elements with shadows in PS but you have to plan the stuff out well as Quark couldn't transparency itself out of a wet paper bag. If you're into all the latest looks and feels.. you REALLY might wanna consider a CS suite upgrade, it could save you hours of messy PS'ing back and forth. Indesign kicks butt.

[jimking]

Quark 7 is released http://store.quark.com/QuarkStore

[rickself]

Quark 7 is released http://store.quark.com/QuarkStore
WHOA - HOLD ME BACK!

[jimking]

Act now and it yours for $50 a month for 30 years!

[rickself]

How'd you find out about the discounted price?
Ahhh, you must be a member of Friends of Quark!
OBTW, I got my Publisher update last month! I'm rockin and rollin now!

[PersonasBinar]

Well the q7beta2 won't open q7beta1 files and neither will be supports by q7 final..Quark you had your chance BITE ME!!!!!!

[rickself]

Oh come on PB. Maybe it's the beta logo. Try updating to the new logo!
And Jim, can you post the serial number here so we can try it out ourselves?

[PersonasBinar]

nope they can go #$%& themselves, they've not kept up with the tech o the day and have dinged loyal customers 1200bucks all the way up.....
Too little too late.

[rickself]

what're they charging for upgrades this time around? I'd look myself but I have a Quark filter on my browser.

[PrintDriver]

Well, if you bought 6.5 in the last 2 or three months you get 7 for $79.
I think the rest of us that had to buy 6.5 should get the same deal.

[PersonasBinar]

damned straight...... still only supports PS level 1..POS.... I hate quark now, even though I have to use it.

[Gromit801]

Always talk to the printer first.

Always keep it in editable layers.

[morea]

Always keep it in editable layers.

I read that as "edible layers"...

mmm... cake.

[doubting_thomas]

what're they charging for upgrades this time around? I'd look myself but I have a Quark filter on my browser.

I think I read that the upgrade price is $249.00 USD :eek:
Make sure you are running Winblows XP and/or OS X 10.4.

(I'm not running either :().

[jimking]

If I'm not mistaking it may only run on the new Mac Intels. I maybe wrong.

[rickself]

I think I read that the upgrade price is $249.00 USD :eek:
Make sure you are running Winblows XP and/or OS X 10.4.

(I'm not running either :().
2 intelligent moves...I'm not on either...maybe XP, but I don't get Quyark files on PC...they all switched to Publisher!

[doubting_thomas]

If I'm not mistaking it may only run on the new Mac Intels.


Actually (after looking), it only states that OS X 10.4 is required.

http://www.quark.com/products/xpress/7sysreq.html

rickself, my clients never made the switch over to Quark from Publisher
in the first place. Office Suite power users :mad:

[rickself]

...Office Suite power users :mad:
There IS such a thing??? AHHHHHRRRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!

[PrintDriver]

Oh, for cryin out loud. Tiger or Later?
Quark?
Later...

[Eggles1]

Font management
Use only PostScript fonts made by reputable font manufacturers..

I think this is a leftover from olden days. There's nothing wrong with many truetype fonts. And there are always Opentype fonts to consider now.

Graphic files
Save image files to TIFF or EPS format.

Another leftover (except if you are using Quark). If you are using InDesign for your layouts, stick with native PSDs and AIs. And even PDFs.

Your last chance before printing
The digital blueline is also your last chance to see the job before it rolls off the press.

Are bluelines still used? I haven't seen one in years.

[PrintDriver]

Fonts are still a big issue. We are still running at 25% non-rip rate on bargain freeware/Truetype fonts. Some of those freeware horrors are quite impressive in their ugliness at large sizes. LOL!

tif, eps, psd, ai, or pdf - Always ask the printer for the preferred format. Most of my wide format vendors still require eps files or tif files. Even in InDesign.

[urstwile]

Jimking's earliest reply on this thread was quite possibly one of the most magnificent posts I've seen on pre-press issues to date.

I salute you, sir. :)

[urstwile]

PD, what does non-rip rate mean?

[PrintDriver]

It means the font, or parts of it don't print on the other side of the rip. We've had everything from letter drop out, lost punctuation, odd peaks in letter outlines and in general just plain orneriness. Several fonts we've received recently we can't use in font management programs. They are seen as corrupt when they actual do print if put in the regular font folders...
PITA!
Fonts are the devil incarnate.

[jimking]

"The digital blueline is also your last chance to see the job before it rolls off the press."

Eagles, you're right it is a little old. It was a copy of our requirements for cleints (needs updating!). Ai files, PSD, PDF are exceptable. Even to this day there are tt fonts that give printers a fit. Digital bluelines are infact low resolution color proofs which are backed up, trimmed, folded, saddle stitched etc. not the old blueline paper (one color) that was created by film. They are accompainied with a one sided contract hi resolution color proofs for color match. Some printers do this differently such as using a lighter paperstock and back those up. Depends on the printer's equipment. But you are right it does need updating.

[rickself]

Jim, I didn't see anything about velox or PMT's. Can I still supply you with one of those? :D

[jimking]

Sure! Got any colorkeys? I want colorkeys! What's a PMT?

[rickself]

What's a PMT?Really? I've aged myself.
Photo Mechanical Transfer.
Bright Light.
Contact Print.

[rickself]

Remember the customer who would leave the blueline on the car seat in the sun, come back out and the thing has been so exposed to sunlight that all they had left was a blue-SHEET? HAHAHA!
Ahhh, Those were the days, my friend, those were the days.

[jimking]

Really? I've aged myself.
Photo Mechanical Transfer.
Bright Light.
Contact Print.
I call those RC or reco prints. Now colorkeys are old I tell ya. Remember those? The old press colormatch proofs? They were color overlays that were taped at the head and registered on cover stock. They were similar to art boards and they were laid down according to what order the ink was laid down on press. Now that's dating! The blueline sun thing must be univeral! :D

[Eggles1]

OK - I'm sure there are some TT fonts that cause headaches, but it's a bit unfair to tarnish them all with the same brush. If I ever use any that could be considered the slightest bit dodgy*, I would always convert to outlines before sending to print anyway.

*Sometimes you haven't got that particular 'look' you're going for in one of your existing T1 fonts.

[rickself]

I would always convert to outlines before sending to print anyway.
But sometimes when you do that, the font gets little pointy things on the corners, little devils horns, I call em, kind of a double stroke. But you don't generally see them til the plates made or the film comes back.

But, True, not all tt fonts are the bane of the industry.

[jimking]

But sometimes when you do that, the font gets little pointy things on the corners, little devils horns, I call em, kind of a double stroke. But you don't generally see them til the plates made or the film comes back.

But, True, not all tt fonts are the bane of the industry.
I just hate those cheap cheasy off the wall free TT fonts for the pc that I've seen many times that I've had many problems with. If you are going to spend the money on good software then spend the money and get decent fonts. As far as outline goes, yes I've seen that bumpy sometimes fat look come off of these TT fonts.

[PrintDriver]

All I'll say about any font is be sure of its integrity before committing an entire, huge multi-thousand dollar project to it. We run font tests free of charge for any job coming our way before it gets too far along. WE don't want the headaches.

Outlining works, but not for large amounts of text in multipage docs or otherwise...

[urstwile]

Lord, I know I wish Multiple Master fonts had never been invented. They cause endless problems, both on our internal printers at work, and with some of the printers we use for smaller run jobs. Yikes.

Sadly, our creative director uses Myriad MM all the time, and there are often no Postscript equivalents that are acceptable. Sheesh.

[Eggles1]

Outlining works, but not for large amounts of text in multipage docs or otherwise...

I know that, and would not use a dodgy font in such a situation. But I have used versions of Garamond, Swiss 721, Century Gothic and many other truetype fonts, and have never had a problem with getting them printed. And I've done lots and lots of multipage text-heavy documents (where if course, I didn't outline the text). My reference to outlining was if I had used a freebie font in say a display headline in an ad - and no, I haven't seen those pointy thingys someone else referred to. I suspect that all the people so adamantly anti-TT are Mac users (of which I am now one) and I understand in the past there used to be problems with TT fonts. But unless you only receive poorly constructed files from wannabe designers who haven't got a clue, then stop bashing truetype fonts. They are not ALL BAD.

I refuse to use a printer that specifies no TT fonts.

[PrintDriver]

I'm not bashing just TT fonts.
I've yet to meet a printer who spec's no TT fonts. I probably wouldn't use em either. LOL! We take anything and everything. Even if it might cause headaches, overtime, cost overuns and project delays. We try to catch it up front though before wading right into it.

I am bashing freebie fonts or low-end shareware and yes some TT fonts not because they give problems on Mac but because they give problems in the rip or at large sizes, where you don't see it until it's too late for the project. Low end font outlines are sometimes the most poorly drawn pieces of work I've ever seen (btw, that's where the "horns" come from. A loop or gap in the font outline)

[PersonasBinar]

100,000 FONTS for 5$ in one CD!!!!!!!! wooohoooo SCORE!!!!!!!!! Honey....let's go home and get publisher up and running!!!!

[rickself]

100,000 FONTS for 5$ in one CD!!!!!!!! wooohoooo SCORE!!!!!!!!! Honey....let's go home and get publisher up and running!!!!
...and use most of 'em one our newsletter!!
But WAIT...order now and we'll send you a second CD with 10,000 clip art images in FULL COLOR Resolution!

[jimking]

Call now and recieve your 100,000 fonts and an incredible 10,000 images! But WAIT..We'll also throw in a set of Ginzu Knives, yours free for only 5 easy payments of $1.00! Act Now! :)

[shopefowler]

Don't know about Quark, but drop shadows created in InDesign are produced in 4-color, instead of black only. Therefore, when the printer begins to adjust color in the doc, drop shadows created in InDesign take on a colored tint. The printers tell me that transparency in InDesign gives them fits as well.

I use InDesign shadows and transparencies for comps, but build final image files the old fashioned way - in Photoshop.

["Technical" Terry]

-posting a little late-

I still have customers who insist on blue line proofs. Quite of few still request film positives too. It's a bit laborous, but they pay for it. Heck, just less than a month ago, I received f3f and prn files for a job. Took me a while to figure out how to put that in the workflow.