Freehand opposed to Illustrator

[iluvmypook]

Hi everyone

Trying to settle on one or the other. As some of you may know I use Corel Painter 8 (on my Mac) for painting, artwork, etc.

But I've been looking at Adobe's Illustrator and of course Freehand. Can someone please explain the fundamental differences between these two, features/benefits that sort of thing? I'm quite new at Vector graphics and I'm finding it a little confusing.

Thanks :)

[PrintDriver]

Illustrator.

While Freehand is serviceable and a perfectly good program with decent export filters, Illustrator still interfaces somewhat better with other programs (and, admittedly, my particular work flow).

And while Freehand has a multipage function and Illustrator doesn't, Freehand IS NOT A LAYOUT PROGRAM! Don't use it as such.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[plantationfarmer]

i started with freehand. stuck with it.
but i gusee illustrator has the better features. and it being compatible with photoshop is an advantage.

:i sell high quality sweet coconuts:

[D-Frag]

Illustrator all the way, your printer will thank you!!




http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/13115/killer_cartoon.gif

[iluvmypook]

hhhhmmmm...ok then

So given the for's for Illustrator, I understand Adobe software integrates well with other software? Say if I'm design web sites with Dreamweaver using graphics created in Illustrator?

How advantageous would this be over using Freehand?

[BuckarooB]

Funny thing about software is that you never know what one company will be using over the other. You train on illustrator and their using expression because the boss's nephew gave him a copy he got a trade show. What ends up happening is that as the years and decades drift past, you end up having spent every damn nickel you've ever made on software, hardware, booze and women...

Life is good.

BB

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are.

[D-Zine]

Expression? As in Fractal Design Expression? Do they still make that? haha I had a copy of that.....couldn't get use to it tho....hardly touched it.

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

[PrintDriver]

Had to use freehand yesterday. Eek. Rusty.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[defjoe]

both basically the same program. but Illustrator is more widely used.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

Although when my brother worked doing large format artwork (poohyness did I forget to tell you guys he's also a graphic artist) they hated Illustrator and preached the Freehand gosspel. So it balls down to compatibilty and preferance.

Now I'll tell you that I was using Freehand back in the OSX 10.1 days because Illustrator didn't have OSX support (I was an early adopter yea) and whenever I sent something to press it would come back messed up. So who is right... no one but Illustrator is more widely used. Then again so is MS Windows but I'm a Mac guy and D-Frag will be too once he gets an Ipod. LOL

[D-Zine]

LOL @ Benjo!!! Didn't you see Ben - D-Frag is a PC thug 4 Life! haha!!

I used freehand all through college and then Illustrator once I got out. I like em both but honestly haven't touched freehand since I graduated in 97.

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

[D-Frag]

benjo... said...
Although when my brother worked doing large format artwork (poohyness did I forget to tell you guys he's also a graphic artist) they hated Illustrator and preached the Freehand gosspel.

I'm a Mac guy and D-Frag will be too once he gets an Ipod. LOL

Your brother is smokin something still, and sharing with his production crew /emoticons/laugh.gif

And it will be a cold day in Hell if Apple gets any of my money thank you very much /emoticons/devil.gif

PC Thug Fo' Life, and I put that on the Shizzy' /emoticons/violent.gif

http://www.pillargraphicdesign.com/dfrag/dfragsig.jpg
Words to live by:
Sonny: Alright, listen to me. You pull up right where she lives, right? Before you get outta the car, you lock both doors. Then, get outta the car, you walk over to her. You bring her over to the car. Dig out the key, put it in the lock and open the door for her. Then you let her get in. Then you close the door. Then you walk around the back of the car and look through the rear window. If she doesn't reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in: dump her.
Calogero: Just like that?
Sonny: Listen to me, kid. If she doesn't reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in, that means she's a selfish broad and all you're seeing is the tip of the iceberg. You dump her and you dump her fast

[Pascal_]

I have been using freehand for 10 years now.
Had sometimes to work some stuff in illustrator,

But to me the basic difference between freehand and illustrator is how vector drawing is considered, joining paths, closing paths, and the way colors are defined and managed. Importing joined objects in Illustrator is just a pain, and complex object in FH is a fruit salad because paths are most of the time not joined.

If you work with flash (my case), you will find it pleasant to create your library elements in freehand. The way toolbars and shortcuts are fully customizable is a good feature in FHMX too. I found text editing much easier in freehand also. Multipage design is nice. But the way objects properties are edited in FHMX is more similar to web editing and programming concepts... I think illustrator will remain a tool for people used to print and Quark, as FHMX can be more oriented to the web design community.

I have never seen anyone working fast in Illustrator, but all designers I have seen working in it were sooooo slow, made me feel like any required operations to get a precise effect are ways too complicated...

I found myself much comfortable in FHMX, but it must be because I am more used to it... (lol) Most people are not computer freaks and find themselfes more comfortable in Illustrator because of it's similarities with photoshop, people do not get used to new GUI so easily, and that's playing in Illustrator's favor...

I wouldn't advice any Macromedia product to Mac users. Full of bugs and the apps are very slow. It's obvious Macromedia develops on PC for the PC industry. And completly left behind the mac users. I Feel sorry I have a new mac, should have bought a PC and switch to a KDE or Gnome, using Sodipodi and Gimp with Blender.

P_

[torque2k]

I just switched from Freehand 10 to MX on the Mac, and I have to agree, it just gets buggier. On the PC side, though, I found a few major bugs in MX which forced me to pick up the Mac version (mainly, using transparency in raster imports in front of vector paths). The PC displayed things fine, but outputting to ANY printer (Canon S820, Epson C80, and even HP Laserjet 6MP) created major color shifts in the VECTOR items, of all things. The Mac version printed them perfectly to all the same printers. I also STILL can't copy and paste well between Freehand and Photoshop, Mac or PC. This 'bug' still causes me to have to use Illustrator as an interim step between the two.

I LOVE Freehand, though, and agree with your comments on speed with which Freehand artists can work in comparison to Illustrator artists.

No matter what, you can almost always tell when some piece of artwork's been done in Freehand, Illustrator or Corel. CorelDRAW users tend to keep defaults, so line thicknesses are usually too thick for my tastes, and (used to be) tons of gradients from White to color or Black to color instead of multiple steps to a screened shade. Illustrator, it gets harder to tell by looking, but if someone shows me a file that's been created in Illustrator, I can always tell. Seems that Freehand artists design for all formats (as do Corel artists), so designs that look good onscreen will often cut well in vinyl (use lots of punches and combine paths) and sep well for screenprinting vs. Illustrator designs (where artists just use layering to make things look right onscreen). We used to go through Hell getting Illustrator files to output right for spotcolor seps AND vinyl cuts.

CorelDRAW gets my nod for the best import/export filters, though, hands down.

If you're just going to be using the program for YOUR OWN PURPOSES, then it's a toss up, based on how you'll be using your art, whether for offset press, web, screen printing, vinyl cutting, etc. Each program shines for different reasons. I like Freehand because I came to it from Corel, and needed something like CorelDRAW on the Mac. Freehand seemed far too simplistic at first, but once I got used to it, I learned to fly with it. If someone had sat me down in front of Illustrator first, maybe I'd have used that instead.

I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
articles on using computers:
CATALYST Techworks Consulting (http://www.catalysttechworks.com)

[torque2k]

Pascal_ said...
I Feel sorry I have a new mac, should have bought a PC and switch to a KDE or Gnome, using Sodipodi and Gimp with Blender.
If you feel that the Mac version of Freehand is buggy, try using Sodipodi for any serious work. You'll run screaming for your Mac! I know, I've been watching the bug reports for the group for awhile now. It's coming along, though, and in two years it should give at least CorelDRAW a run for its money! Too bad Micro$oft had to buy Corel out, and they dropped the DRAW port to Linux. I see they're going ahead with the WordPerfect port to Linux again, though, so maybe it'll happen.

By the way, Pascal, are you the Pascal who packaged Sodipodi up for Suse 9? I'm off to download it now for my latest 9.1 install, good on you if you are!!! /emoticons/cheers.gif

I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
articles on using computers:
CATALYST Techworks Consulting (http://www.catalysttechworks.com)

Post Edited (torque2k) : 9/20/2004 2:44:34 PM GMT

[PrintDriver]

Hey Torque-

What vinyl cutter software you using?

Cuz we have more trouble with Freehand (and a LOT of trouble with Corel) files.
When people send us files in those two programs they always end up with unintentional cuts thru many of the shapes. To see what I mean take a look at last outlined Ford logo here www.graphicdesignforum.com/default.aspx?f=36&m=20303 (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/default.aspx?f=36&m=20303). See the cuts thru the F and the D? Doesn't happen in Illustrator ever.

We're using Signlab E6.

I can use Illy pretty quick. I did have to customize the keyboard shortcuts tho.
;)

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[torque2k]

I stopped using Signlab years ago in favor of CASMate and Flexi. I liked some options in each, though Flexi was the most trustworthy in terms of imports. But I used to get that ALL the time with Illustrator files! We ended up bringing in the files in Freehand so we could clean them up without having to beg for the file done the CORRECT way (ie: no gradients, fills, strokes, etc.)! Note that I was using Freehand 8 at the time, about four years ago.

Usually, I just saved files from Freehand as AI7 files. Note that the last time I ran a cutter was about four years ago, so things may have changed, but hard to believe it would be harder to import FH files now... ScanVec was always very Freehand savvy when I had to talk with their tech support.

I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
articles on using computers:
CATALYST Techworks Consulting (http://www.catalysttechworks.com)

[PrintDriver]

We run Signlab on our CNC too. Very cool set up. That's why we also have it for vinyl.

Funny we get the same error in opposite directions. Wonder which one is reading what wrong? Because I know the Ford logos came out of Corel and show up in the forum messed up, I can guess but let's not go there and just deal. LOL.
And yeah, we just clean em up too. It's way too much hassle to get a designer to do it right - and we still gotta clean it up if they try.

ScanVec ripped us off. Big Time.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Post Edited (PrintDriver) : 9/21/2004 10:44:53 AM GMT

[torque2k]

PD, what large format machines are you running? I've got a buddy who runs a couple of big-a** Vuteks and he says he still has problems with Illustrator files going to them, has to bring them in FH to do tweaking. Dunno what RIP they're using, but the workstations are all OS X 10.2...

I've heard some bad things about ScanVec elsewhere. That's too bad, they really were pretty good 'back in the day'... Didn't they buy Amiable (Flexi)?

I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
articles on using computers:
CATALYST Techworks Consulting (http://www.catalysttechworks.com)

[PrintDriver]

Yep, Scanvec bought amiable then dropped their own line like a hot rock. (Inspire and Enrout). What a bad combo that set up was.
Flexi is still around. A lot of sign shops around town use it.

As for the bigass Vuteks, I'm all outsource on those pups. Can you say 'expensive mofos? But sweet printers. And I'm no rip runner, just a front-ender but everyone started having probs with Illustrator when Pantone changed color formulas at the same time Transparency was invented (V9 and up). There are tech notes on the Adobe site, buried deep but there, on dealing with the transparency. As for color, Know Thy Version. I'm sure they aren't going direct from Illy to rip right?

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[torque2k]

Good question. I'm out of that arena now, and he's always pumping 70 hours/week so I never get a chance to go over to his shop and just sit and watch him work...

Now that you mention it, the sign shop I used to work for was in the process of switching to Inspire when I left to start my own shop. From what I heard, it was terrible! I picked up a copy of Flexi from a shop that had closed in another state for cheap (like, I think $150!) and just outsourced my cuts to a screenprinter who had a vinyl cutter and Flexi. They gave me such dirt cheap pricing, I never bothered to buy my own cutter! /emoticons/biggrin.gif

I'd love to get back into the large-format stuff someday, but the market around MI is saturated with artists and startup sign shops, as we have Kendall College of Arts here, which churns out a ton of good artists, but none of them want to move away from Grand Rapids once they've gotten used to it here! :P

I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
articles on using computers:
CATALYST Techworks Consulting (http://www.catalysttechworks.com)

[Pascal_]

Nonono I am not the Pascal who packaged Sodipodi up for Suse 9...

héhé

but I wouldn't say no for the beers...http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/cheers.gif

P_

[GoBrainstorm]

I realize this is several months old, but this may be of use to newer forum members.

I would suggest for you to try them both out--they both have free trial versions online. Get a feel for how they work, because they are completely different in their approach. Since I primarily design logos & stationery systems, I prefer Freehand hands-down.

I have used Illustrator as well, but I love that you can mix color models in Freehand, and that you can have multiple pages--I do use Freehand as a layout program, because it simply works better than Quark or Indesign for simple things like stationery and small brochures. Plus, Freehand does a great job of creating PDFs.

Illustrator does some things better, such as type enveloping, and certain special effects, but so far I have not had any reason to scrap Freehand. I just wish it were more popular, especially with service bureaus.

Bob Downs
Brainstorm!
Custom Logo Design For Your Business
http://www.gobrainstorm.com

[Skyler]

FreeHand simply has a better user interface. I don't know how Adobe managed it, but Photoshop has the flat out best UI for any design tool in my experience, and when I shifted my focus from digital maipulation to graphic design & layout I repeteadly beat myself over the head with Illustrator's frustrating UI and way of doing things. I find that Macromedia FreeHand (8-MX) is just easier to use and understand what the hell it's doing.