If You're Between 18 and 42.....

[Gromit801]

Congressman Rangel has managed to attach a Military Draft provision to a bill in congress. Applies to men and women.

Have fun kids!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-4752

[morea]

WTF? I'm a lover not a fighter.

[jlknauff]

Already did my time many years ago...I would probably go back volunarily if needed though.

[danedawg99]

good thing they denied me at enlistment. By Law, they can't take me now.

[morea]

I'm a conscientious objector - not about this war in particular, about war in general.

But that isn't respected anymore, from what I understand, so it just means that I would have to go to jail.

[morea]

I'd have to cut off a toe or something.

[danedawg99]

got a link?

[Gromit801]

I'm a conscientious objector - not about this war in particular, about war in general.

But that isn't respected anymore, from what I understand, so it just means that I would have to go to jail.

No, you would be an Admin Weenie, or medical personnel (like a medic at the front). After Vietnam, going to Canada won't work either, they'll ship you back. I wouldn't worry too much unless they change the age to 18 - 25. It probably doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of passing.

[morea]

no - I can't serve in the military for religious reasons. Regardless of position.

[balou]

Out of curiousity, but not enough to investigate myself, what was the subject matter of the original bill it got attached to?

[Drorain]

lol, someone tried this on myspace, get everyone beaten into a frenzy...

go ahead and try to add a draft, then we'll really see the 2 party system become broken

[Gromit801]

Here's a link


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-4752

[danedawg99]

it won't pass. it's all-inclusive. the rich people won't let it pass b/c it doesn't allow for exclusions.

[rickself]

what?

[balou]

Our government is just a gem don't ya think? ugh!

[Drorain]

oh yeah...because those two things are so pancaking related.

they really need to stop this sewing of bills together its not good.

I'm thinking nov might show a "Throw the bums out" voter turnout

[rickself]

I am going nuts...I swear I just saw a post...must be cuz I'm not between 18 and 42! But I did get some good news today,,,
AARP wants me!! BIG W-O-O-T!!!

[balou]

1 (b) AGE LIMITS.--A person may be inducted under
2 this Act only if the person has attained the age of 18 and
3 has not attained the age of 42.

WHEW! I just turned 42 in April. I'm good. :p

[rickself]

Charlie Rangel is a work, anyway.

Hey, how about if we nominate for active duty, ummm, say, ummm, son in laws that run out on their wives, don't pay child support, and think that life is still a big party? Or am I sounding too much like a protective daddy?

[jimking]

Rangel has been pushing this for years, at least 4. There is a motive for why he's pushing it and it is only politics. Has nothing to do with military strength. If the U.S. starts the draft it better be a kick ass and take names later type of war. None of this nation building crap. Didn't work in Korea or Vietnam and I'm getting this funny feeling it aint gonna work in Iraq.

[Gromit801]

no - I can't serve in the military for religious reasons. Regardless of position.

There's a whole procedure for that, including affadavits from your religious leader stating you've been a longtime member of the flock who participates regularly every week. Believe me, they know EVERY dodge, and are prepared for it.

[Drorain]

What if I show them my mushroom in the recruiters office...hmm hmmm?

what then?

[jimking]

Captain Morea! :D

[Gromit801]

What if I show them my mushroom in the recruiters office...hmm hmmm?

what then?

You get to be a cook!

[rickself]

Hey Morea, if you send in a picture of you riding your cat with the saddle, you'll prolly get bypassed rather quickly.

[Gromit801]

Nah, they'd make her a dog handler and an MP.

[rickself]

Lol!

[jlknauff]

What if I show them my mushroom in the recruiters office...hmm hmmm?

what then?The navy will promote you ;)

[rickself]

This is getting too funny...except if you're between 18 and 42!!

[Gromit801]

And then there's those of us who have already served in the military and/or are over 42!

[Drorain]

our military needs to be volunteer, and we need to pay them a lot more than we do.

[balou]

Aren't there countries that have a system like this - everyone serves with the military for a period of time? For some reason Israel is coming to mind. I am shamefully ignorant to world politics.

[Gromit801]

This is very true, and as a vet, I can tell you our military doesn't make enough. Now then, where in the budget do we cut from, to give the DoD more to pay salaries with? Or do taxes go up again?

Don't talk about things like the $600 hammer, etc. Most of that is uban myth, and many of those things were one time buys of special designs that don't get a volume purchace price. I used to work in an office that dealt with with that back in the 80's.

[Gromit801]

Aren't there countries that have a system like this - everyone serves with the military for a period of time? For some reason Israel is coming to mind. I am shamefully ignorant to world politics.


Switzerland for example. You do two years active duty out of high school, and six years in the reserves.

[jimking]

I've got a $6000 hammer. :D

[Drorain]

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/panic-button.jpg

for anyone that needs a panic button...

yes well you see, we're occupying a country that is infact a rich oil nation...so someone wanna tell me why we're paying 10billion a month over there?

okay all kidding aside, my dickweed of a rep (Ed Markey) said something very good this morning, They are giving homeland security zilch, but they give iraq a blank check.

time to throw the bums out

[Drorain]

my mushroom doubles as a hammer...

[rickself]

The whole picture (US military) you know was messed up when our men and women coming home wounded from Afghanistan and Iraq had to pay their own medical expenses once they got here. Something is not right. I think this has been corrected, tho.
Slightly straying away from original post, sorry.

[reuber1]

WTF HAPPENED TO "NO DRAFT" DURING ELECTION 2004.

Forgive me, I'm just getting out of work and didn't read everything.

[chris_bcn]

Aren't there countries that have a system like this - everyone serves with the military for a period of time? For some reason Israel is coming to mind. I am shamefully ignorant to world politics.

Lots of European countries have Military service - Spain, Switzerland, Italy to name just a few

South Korea does too.

The US can't draft me as I'm over 26 and an immigrant - Woohoo! the UK could still get me though if they introduced something similar

[danedawg99]

WTF HAPPENED TO "NO DRAFT" DURING ELECTION 2004.

Forgive me, I'm just getting out of work and didn't read everything.
it's *surprisingly* not the 'pubs doing it. It's a dem. He's doing it to keep it in front of everybody's face, so that it can't be introduced sneakily, like the bill that allowed oil drilling in the ANWR. It'll never pass b/c rich people and politicians don't want their spoiled little kids having to go into the military.

[Jriddim]

it won't pass. it's all-inclusive. the rich people won't let it pass b/c it doesn't allow for exclusions.



Exactly

[Jriddim]

or the richies and tied in people will just mysteriously not be on the "to call list"

[jimking]

They just cut to the chase back in the American Civil war. I think if you paid either $250 or $500 you were out. How much is that in today's dollars?

[Ovaltine]

I could be wrong, but I think most of the countries who have mandantory military service are considerably smaller than the US, and so that's the only way for them to have a decent sized military.

Hasn't history taught that an all volunteer military is far more effective than the ones where the soldiers are only there because they fear their own leaders?

As far as that goes, the only reason our enemies stand a chance against us is because we "pull our punches". If we actually went in with the amount of force we are capable of, as in, the ways wars used to be fought, we could probably level everything/everyone and just start over. We are good guys, believe it or not, and don't do that.

You can disagree if you like, this is still a free country, but that's how I feel about it.

[danedawg99]

and that was almost ok, because the $$ went directly to the war effort. you were still supporting it, just not with blood. nowadays, tho, there'd be administrative fees and handling charges that lined the politician's pockets before the military ever saw it.

[Gromit801]

The only part I disagree with, is that it's a free country. Where on earth did you ever get THAT idea? We're something like 25th or so on the list of "free" countries.

Patriot Act? NSA? Phone and Internet taps? Remember any of those? Free? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[danedawg99]

As far as that goes, the only reason our enemies stand a chance against us is because we "pull our punches". If we actually went in with the amount of force we are capable of, as in, the ways wars used to be fought, we could probably level everything/everyone and just start over. We are good guys, believe it or not, and don't do that.

You can disagree if you like, this is still a free country, but that's how I feel about it.

if we did that, then everyone else would too. that's the only reason bush and co. don't we'd have WW3 in no time flat. and everyone would use nukes, because people are stupid, panicky animals.

[jimking]

I could be wrong, but I think most of the countries who have mandantory military service are considerably smaller than the US, and so that's the only way for them to have a decent sized military.

Hasn't history taught that an all volunteer military is far more effective than the ones where the soldiers are only there because they fear their own leaders?

As far as that goes, the only reason our enemies stand a chance against us is because we "pull our punches". If we actually went in with the amount of force we are capable of, as in, the ways wars used to be fought, we could probably level everything/everyone and just start over. We are good guys, believe it or not, and don't do that.

You can disagree if you like, this is still a free country, but that's how I feel about it.
I was watching an old documentary about England's occupation of Iraq in the early 1900s. When the warlords started fighting each other the British would fly over their villages and drop a couple of bombs out in the dessert as a warning to stop the killing. If they did not listen the British gave the villagers 24 hours notice to leave town. When the 24 hours was up the Brits leveled the town. They said it was very effective.

[mac.FINN]

I was going to say that I Love Canada, (okay I still do love Canada) but now that Harper's Conservative are in charge I could see him trying to do something similar.

[reuber1]

Nothing like a Nuclear Winter pissing contest. Where's my interplanetary rocket filled with sexy babes, medical staff, entertaining comedians, video games, and an endless power supply?

[morea]

<- off to build a bomb shelter in the back yard... pondering how much cat litter to stock...

[Silence04]

asthma, flat feet, daily medication...

it's like i have an unlimited supply of "get out of the Army Free" cards... :)

[reuber1]

I'm just too damn sexy to go to war.

[danedawg99]

I went to enlist when I was 17, and was told that I have an 'Inguinal hernia,' so they wouldn't take me. It bummed me at the time, but now I know better. It can be fixed, of course, (and will be eventually) but it requires invasive surgery, and they can't make me do it. HA!

[morea]

I'm just too damn sexy to go to war.

ooh, if that's a valid excuse, I'm going in for plastic surgery!

[reuber1]

OK, this makes more sense now. I just talked to my brother about this via IM (remember, this is IM, OK):

Rangel wanted to show on a large stage that to do these kinds of invasions required more troops and at the same time wanted to make republicans put their money where their mouths were i.e., if you want to go to war for some abstract idea, fine...then let's make everyone do it and we'll see how much they support what you are doing. And of course, republicans weren't willing to do that. Too bad the media missed the point and then dropped their coverage. I think Rangel voted against it...it helped show that people will not stand for a draft, and that's all that mattered

[danedawg99]

OK, this makes more sense now. I just talked to my brother about this via IM (remember, this is IM, OK):

Rangel wanted to show on a large stage that to do these kinds of invasions required more troops and at the same time wanted to make republicans put their money where their mouths were i.e., if you want to go to war for some abstract idea, fine...then let's make everyone do it and we'll see how much they support what you are doing. And of course, republicans weren't willing to do that. Too bad the media missed the point and then dropped their coverage. I think Rangel voted against it...it helped show that people will not stand for a draft, and that's all that mattered
that was put MUCH better than I could have done it. AND it was IM. I kept starting replies to say this and couldn't make the words flow.

[reuber1]

ooh, if that's a valid excuse, I'm going in for plastic surgery!No self-deprecating. Against forum policy.

[morea]

oops. Sorry reuber. :o

[reuber1]

oops. Sorry reuber. :oDon't make me ban yourself. :cool: :p

[morea]

I'll be good. :D

[Gromit801]

Actually, Rangel has been pushing for a draft for a long time. His reasons as he states, are that there are too many minorities fighting and dying. According to him, minorities join the military because they don't have as equal a chance to make it successfully in the civilain world, so he wants more, shall we say, "Balance" in the fighting and dying department. It has always been a racial issue with him for years.

[captain spanky]

there was a draft here in the UK... but someone shut the window and it's just warm now... :p

Isn't it ironic that you have to be fit and healthy to go get shot and blown up....

[reuber1]

Actually, Rangel has been pushing for a draft for a long time. His reasons as he states, are that there are too many minorities fighting and dying. According to him, minorities join the military because they don't have as equal a chance to make it successfully in the civilain world, so he wants more, shall we say, "Balance" in the fighting and dying department. It has always been a racial issue with him for years.According to what? Where does he state that? From what I've read (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-10-05-draft_x.htm), "Rangel introduced his bill after criticizing the all-volunteer military for putting an unfair burden on lower-income groups, who join for job training or money to pay for college." Everything I've read shows that this was basically to prove the point above. The more I've thought about this, the more I feel that he obviously would have never thought this would realistically pass.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/29/mandatory.military/
"When you talk about a war, you're talking about ground troops, you're talking about enlisted people, and they don't come from the kids and members of Congress," he said.

"I think, if we went home and found out that there were families concerned about their kids going off to war, there would be more cautiousness and a more willingness to work with the international community than to say, 'Our way or the highway.' "

[jimking]

Rangel has been pushing this for years, at least 4. There is a motive for why he's pushing it and it is only politics. Has nothing to do with military strength. If the U.S. starts the draft it better be a kick ass and take names later type of war. None of this nation building crap. Didn't work in Korea or Vietnam and I'm getting this funny feeling it aint gonna work in Iraq.
:)

[reuber1]

Right, where does that state race?

:)

[jimking]

Right, where does that state race?

:)
:confused:

[reuber1]

Well, I guess actually posting something instead of a smiley after quoting one of your own posts can enlighten me to your point.

[rickself]

I'm stickin my neck out here. I certainly don't want to get into politics here or a race argument, but Charlie Rangel is a black Democrat Congressman from New York, serving his 17th consecutive term. His district includes primarily minority areas of New York, including Harlem. Instead of writing a bill to force young people into service, he should lend more support to things at home. Maybe minorities are signing up for the military, not only for the money and promise of education, but also to get away from the inner-city troubles of the big cities? I don't know. Whenever I think of Charlie Rangel, names like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson come to mind also. Just my 2¢ worth.

[DivineDesign]

ya think I would have to go in my husband is currently in?? Plus, he always tells me they wouldn't let me in for my medical reasons......Who knows...

[colonel5]

WHEW! I just turned 42 in April. I'm good. :p

I turn 24 in a couple weeks so maybe if it does go through a dislexic person will just pass by my name thinking I'm too old... but if that's the case, we'll have a bunch of people ages 43-93 fighting a war

[jimking]

I turn 24 in a couple weeks so maybe if it does go through a dislexic person will just pass by my name thinking I'm too old... but if that's the case, we'll have a bunch of people ages 43-93 fighting a war
Its happened before except not the 93 year olds. I think the average age in WWII was around 40. But most males were in the military anyway.

[Logo-Mechanix]

The bill will never pass because its not necessary as long as people keep volunteering. And believe me the military would much rather have volunteers than conscripts.

[jimking]

The bill will never pass because its not necessary as long as people keep volunteering. And believe me the military would much rather have volunteers than conscripts.
I just read some stats. There is a slump in the number of people joining the military however the reinlistments are up. As it turns out there is no shortage. As far as minorities being over represented in the forces not true. 75% are white, mostly middle income. The rest are hispanic and black, asian.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I think I read something similar, and the one statistic that surprised me was the minority percentages I thought it would be more 50/50 at least. I know alot of people who joined the military right out of high school and many of them speak very highly of their experiences, the one thing they all say they enjoy the most is the travel. Alot of them are either still active duty or reserve, very few left all together.

[captain spanky]

I just read some stats. There is a slump in the number of people joining the military however the reinlistments are up. As it turns out there is no shortage.

i wonder what the figures would have been like if 'the war on terrorism' hadn't begun?

[Gromit801]

Reuber. Rangel's comments that I referenced to were not in print that I'm aware of. I watching him being interviewed on I think "Larry King Live" about six years ago. I may not remember the date, but I sure as heck remember what he was saying.

[Gromit801]

The bill will never pass because its not necessary as long as people keep volunteering. And believe me the military would much rather have volunteers than conscripts.


Uhh, the Army and the Marines are not meeting their recruitment quotas, and haven't for about a year now.

Those that are volunteering, are going Air Force and Navy, and those services are in a position to turn people away.

[reuber1]

If they drafted me, I'd be saying "GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!" left and right, it would be great.

[PersonasBinar]

Canada may not welcome dodgers officially but you can camp in my backyard.

[balou]

Canada may not welcome dodgers officially but you can camp in my backyard.

Woohoo! I'll bring the marshmallows. :D

[morea]

thanks PB!