Forum facelift? [Archive] - Graphic Design Forum

Jeff

07-02-2004, 09:44 PM

Who cares what it looks like?! Blasphemy!!!11!!1

As designers I think its our responsibility to un-ghetto the poor retarded boys etch-a-sketch tomfoolery is it not? We most definitely SHOULD care what the forum looks like when it carries such a lofty name as THE Graphic Design Forum.

But yeah I've messed with forum skins before and they ARE a pain in the butt. I've had to wrestle with PHPbb once or twice and it sucked. But at least a better logo, header, main menu. I mean c'mon. If you were to critique everthing from the 'no advertising...' line up, what would you say?

Here's what I'd say.

The logo is so so. GraphicDesign isn't to bad but that font with the calligraphy feel to it I don't think is very representative of the direction of most of the people on this board (based on my whopping 2 days of browsing). The word Forum in Helvetica or Univers or whatever seems simply tacked on and could be integrated better.

The 'No Advertising...' line is an eyesore. I realize that you want people to pay attention to it, but surely theres a better solution that all caps yellow reversed out of black.

'Draw You Own Conclusions' as a tag line doesn't do that much for me... yes yes i get the Draw part... but the obligatory drop shadow? Plain 'ol Helveticunivers ? Surely we can do better here. Perhaps even attaching to a the logo as taglines tend to be.

I don't mind the simple menu items separated by pipes ' | | | | ' though heh.

/emoticons/devil.gif /emoticons/devil.gif /emoticons/devil.gif

bah!

Post Edited (Jeff) : 7/2/2004 5:48:49 PM GMT

Mickey

07-02-2004, 09:57 PM

Little benny would blow is helmet if he heard you speak of his hard work like this! He is a very special boy... he just needs some time to develope his skills as a designer. It is his dream to be a famous graphic artist someday, as well as meet Corky from that TV show 'life goes on' (he always says Corky and he are best palls)

Now take it easy on him or I will hit you with his rubber spoon!

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

LTG

07-02-2004, 10:06 PM

hey Jeff why don't you come up with 4 or 5 free logos and header samples that you'd be willing to donate to the cause and then all 2,891 of the other members can critique and make changes to yours

If it wasn't for the last minute nothing would ever get done.
(When I grow up I want to be just like Keyare! He does excellent work - even when he's trying to not to.)

D-Zine

07-02-2004, 10:08 PM

OMG LTG...that is a really great idea! Whadda ya say Jeff?

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Jeff

07-02-2004, 10:17 PM

Ohhhh I see how it is. Here's my submission then:

http://www.fourtwentyone.com/images/forumposts/gdfsketch.jpg

(btw I didn't do that in photoshop i used this (http://www.hairytongue.com/etchy/)... )

OWNT! :D

bah!

Allen Harkleroad

07-02-2004, 10:21 PM

slobber, clobber, yous maikgn fun off mysefl aigain?

Allen "the infinitely frustrated" Harkleroad
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Jeff

07-02-2004, 10:23 PM

Thats not Corky. That's Dante from Clerks. You guys are a bunch of liars telling me that he was retarded. Shame on you!!! ;)

bah!

LTG

07-02-2004, 10:26 PM

I think the wide red border is a litte too strong for the overall design

If it wasn't for the last minute nothing would ever get done.
(When I grow up I want to be just like Keyare! He does excellent work - even when he's trying to not to.)

07-02-2004, 10:31 PM

Jeff thats garbage even I can do better then that and I SUCK!

How about a rainbow colored gradient logo layed out in 'Tiffany' with a blazing drop showdow on a golden background. Hows that for creative direction. Oh and don't forget the exagerated bevels that surround the golden box.

Mickey

07-02-2004, 10:32 PM

I'm not to keen on the font choice!

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

Jeff

07-02-2004, 10:32 PM

I don't knoooww.. the red border is there to convey the sense of PASSION we have as designers. Without the red it would really water it down. I tried green to support the greed aspect but it just came off a bit pretentious. And you don't like the avant-garde type styling? Now you're just being facicious! I really think it has a rebellious yet somehow modern feel to it. The right alignment gives the finger to the design establishment! I think everyone is really going to get behind this design. Can't wait to hear from the other 2,887 members!!

bah!

D-Zine

07-02-2004, 10:37 PM

and please please redraw it in Illustrator or Corel to avoid pixelation. It will give the overall design a much cleaner look plus then you can increase and decrease the size to whatever you may need it for in the future. :o)

Also..that font...ewwe...I just don't know. I think you need to try something a little more clean..more ledgeable. Possibly Helvetica or Univers...

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Jeff

07-02-2004, 10:51 PM

You guys are just jealous of my l33t etch-a-sketch skillz!

bah!

Keyare

07-02-2004, 10:59 PM

That 'R' is wicked. Piece of art that!

DeleteYourself

07-03-2004, 12:08 AM

I like where you're going, but it needs to be more 'edgey-cute.' Can you you somehow make it bigger and bolder. Make it pop off the page and grab my attention. Can I see something in a lite-brite?

2884 to go

http://www.dafenix.org/todd/dy.gif
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Silence04

07-03-2004, 12:23 AM

yeah, i agree on the lite-brite idea... ech-a-sketch is too old fashion, you need to get up to the times son!

www.jdcgraphics.net (http://www.jdcgraphics.net/)- currentlyunder construction
http://www.jdcgraphics.net/banner.gif

D-Zine

07-03-2004, 12:30 AM

2883 crits to go...are you making notes so you can post updates?? :o)

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Jeff

07-03-2004, 12:49 AM

DeleteYourself said...
I like where you're going, but it needs to be more 'edgey-cute.' Can you you somehow make it bigger and bolder. Make it pop off the page and grab my attention. Can I see something in a lite-brite?

2884 to go

Ah yes it can be a series of sorts! Etch-a-sketch, LiteBrite, Connect4, Stratego. Each formum can have its own sub-brand. Brilliant!

/me takes notes ;)

bah!

Jeff

07-03-2004, 12:52 AM

Yes! LiteBrite! I can see a series of sub-branding for the various forums. Etch-a-sketch, LiteBrite, Connect4, Stratego, Trouble... brilliant! ;)

bah!

Magnus

07-03-2004, 01:41 AM

Well, since Jeff is very passionate about a GDF facelift, and we all know that passion can produce great works of art...as well as a tablespoon of semen, I thought I'd do a concept design of the new GDF look.

Taking some inspiration from Jeff's Avatar, i thought I'd recreate some of it in the new GDF look. Here is what I came up with.

http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v39/TlantMagnus/GDF_facelift.jpg

Now, starting from the top left and going over. The first box is a well done imitation...nay, replica of Jeff's top right square on his avatar. Clouds............clouds man.

The second box is the header, or opening title bar. Note the use of the new logo. I used one of my own special fonts called "F'n Punk ass kids". It deeelivers a lot of anger, but so do clients and such. ***NOTE - the lack of any disclaimers and warnings...because at GDF, we don't need them. Everyone respects our forum as a place of learning. We've never had these problems.

The third box again is derived from Jeff's Avatar. This time I used one of those VERY strategically placed boxes on the right hand side...except I had no idea what the ***** they were, so I scribbled some red pen and pink highlighter on it. Works though. Very Moooodern. Modern.

On the second row, I added a very catchy phrase from the TV show "Cheers". God I wanted to bang carla. Anyway, below that is the GDF tagline. I felt it went along with Allen's Avatar. Because let's be honest...Allen doesn't know what he's doing. Dooooooing.

The middle box is where all the navigation buttons are. The top one is the "Home Page" button, followed by "Pencils, Carbon", then "Lettuce and Socks", then "OJ Simpson & Colour", and ending with "Links and Loops". Fairly straight forward, again, keeping with the overall colour scheme.

The last box I drew from something personal. (and yes, all i have handy are a stupid green and pink highlighter). It's the symbol I used on my calender to mark my g/f's return home. Except I flipped it upside down, because I didn't want to plagerize my own work. Copyrights are sooooo annoying.

________________

Having said all of that, each of usas graphic designers are NOT in anyway defined by this forum. It's simply a place to hang out and learn. We're not selling products. To be honest, I don't even look at the logo...that's not what's important. What's important is what posts are new, who's on GDF at that moment, and what's being discussed.

If I was forced to define myself by that which I surround myself with, like my car for example, then I'd have to be a black guy, with a few rust spots and a lot of mileage. But that's not the case.

End of story.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

D-Frag

07-03-2004, 01:51 AM

Elegantly put magnus, now can this topic die?

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/13115/killer_cartoon.gif

Jeff

07-03-2004, 02:06 AM

Well seriously now. I find it totally bizarre that a group of designers is so unconcerned about the design of their 'house'.. our 'bar' I guess as Magnus puts it.

Do you guys REALLY think that the header couldn't be improved, design-by-committee implications aside. You're all telling me that 'it doesn't matter' and no one is ready to actually take a stab at it? Would Allen entertain some easy suggestions... such as replacing the logo and tag gifs and altering the css on the header text. That could easily be done while leaving the rest of the forum as is to avoid complication.

If I were to approach the sticky problem of designing for designers I think the solution would be best served by something simple. This has already been done to a certain extent by Allen but could really use refinement if he'd allow it. It's not like its some kind of monumental task. To avoid the pot shots from the peanut gallery, the core group of mods/admins could surely come to some sort of agreement on a submitted design? Or even perhaps come up with a collaborative design derived first from discussion?

bah!

Post Edited (Jeff) : 7/2/2004 10:12:08 PM GMT

Magnus

07-03-2004, 02:11 AM

No one gives a F'n $hit about it. In fact, you're the first person to ever mention it. Again, you're missing the whole purpose of this forum.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

D-Frag

07-03-2004, 02:13 AM

dude, we could care less man, we all design so much in our free time, the last thing we want to do is bitch and moan about were we hang out and kick off our shoes, let it go, the forums not changing, if you don't like it, dont let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/13115/killer_cartoon.gif

Jeff

07-03-2004, 02:13 AM

No apparently you DO give a f'in sh!t about it, to the extent that you'll actively block any attempts make it better. /emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If you're really concerned about quality of advice and conversation here, I'd think you'd want to do all you could to attract MORE users here. Being a new user I was a put off by the un-attractiveness of it, and (as I think a lot of designers react) unintentionally associated that with the value of the advice given.

I could see after reading more (which I may not have done if I hadn't googled a specific topic) that a lot of the topics here were better than anticipated so I did think to stick around see what was up. I would like to see you argue that making it visually more appealing wouldn't help draw users here. It is after all the nature and definition of our trade.

This is why the resistance baffles me so. I'm not intending to come here and be THE ONE to design anything. The only reason I'm arguing now is that I find the thinking on this subject strange and contradictory. Maybe its just your reaction to an outsider making a sweeping suggestion... i dunno.

bah!

Post Edited (Jeff) : 7/2/2004 10:19:27 PM GMT

Magnus

07-03-2004, 02:18 AM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Why would we listen to one person out of 2000+ members? Especially someone who has 23 total posts? If you had been around for a while, sure, maybe we'd listen. But first of all, you have no credit here yet. Secondly, there are designers of such high caliber here that it's disgusting, that have said jack squat about it. So again, why should we listen to you?

It's not like you came in with a gentle suggestion either. You seem to think that your ideas of how it should be are worth their equivalent weight in gold. Gimme a break here. Brash statements won't get you where you want to go. At the very least you could get a feel for things, and certainly the people that frequent here before you go deciding for yourself and others how things should be.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

Post Edited (Magnus) : 7/2/2004 10:22:06 PM GMT

uncle carbunkle

07-03-2004, 02:20 AM

jeff - submit something. honestly. redesign the bits you don't like and if it's liked, i'm sure you'd make more friends than just nagging. not being funny, but really. pickpickpick - you're like an old woman.

i agree with you on some stuff, but i also don't have the time to participate in any of the contests, etc, let alone design for free. i imagine that everyone else is in the same boat, too.

welcome to the forum. you're funny. but for real: if you don't like it, moaning about it is only going to piss everyone off. besides, this forum could look like my gramma's crumbly fanny and i'd still drop in - it's really handy for info/problem solving and the people make me feel like i'm sane. well, more sane than some....

greetings, earthlings. take me to your dealer.

Jeff

07-03-2004, 02:20 AM

Now i see why you gave your self the title you did.

bah!

Magnus

07-03-2004, 02:23 AM

I'm fair and honest. You say what you think is correct for yourself, and I'll do the same. Most people consider people like me an A-hole because I'm forward and open. However, I've also learned enough through life to have the wisdom to know when and when not to say something stupid.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

Jeff

07-03-2004, 02:23 AM

*Sigh* I wasn't moaning... i was suggesting a contest, collaboration or whatever. Then I seem to get jumped on my lets-not-design-our-forum squad, hardly encouragment ya know? OH well nm.

bah!

Post Edited (Jeff) : 7/2/2004 10:29:30 PM GMT

uncle carbunkle

07-03-2004, 02:29 AM

it's because you said it with some arrogance. i guess it's just like talking to strangers on a bus - best to be polite until you know them better, huh?

and i stand by what i said. around here, you'll get more results a) with manners, b) by actually jumping in there and doing something constructive (not just nagging - or SEEMING like nagging - or whatever) or c) with boobies. or pictures of boobies. or just talking about boobies.

post a few ideas. i'd be willing to bet that people would chime in.

greetings, earthlings. take me to your dealer.

Magnus

07-03-2004, 02:32 AM

Uncle is right. If you had added boobies into your suggestions, i'm sure it would have all been coshure.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

Jeff

07-03-2004, 03:03 AM

Well I apologize that I came off brash. That was not my intent. I'll make good on my nagging and spend some time this weekend to come up with some possible replacement ideas that you guys can rip apart to your heart's content. And boobies. Can't forget the boobies.

Have a good 4th! (for those of you in U.S.)

bah!

ylaenna

07-03-2004, 03:24 AM

Wow, I got whiplash from reading this thread from beginning to end.

MILK! MILK! LEMONADE!

PrintDriver

07-03-2004, 04:15 AM

Yeah, like a pingpong match there.
Mag, where do you find time for that funny sh!t? LMFAO!

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Magnus

07-03-2004, 05:13 AM

Honestly, I don't know...sometimes it just flows. Other times I'm just blah.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

D-Zine

07-03-2004, 05:43 AM

haaaaaaaaaaahahahhahaha!

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

sister

07-04-2004, 10:57 PM

magnus i love the 'I POO'.....hahahahaha

D-Zine

07-05-2004, 05:42 AM

LOL @ Sister! Good eye good eye! I didn't even notice that till now and I had examined Mag's drawing quite well I thought...LOL!

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Magnus

07-05-2004, 07:12 PM

Yeah...that was a nice trick, I admit. Thanks for catching it sister.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

defjoe

07-06-2004, 06:45 AM

Damn I missed this thread and I have to back my GDF brother up. I agree...who gives a flying piece of corn infested poo/. I like my forum the way it is. It's not the body it's what is under the hood that counts.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

07-06-2004, 04:01 PM

We all know content is king in. I guess since we are designers we can look past the design here and still feel at home.

Honestly I've suggested redesigning the GDF more then once, the problem is not the design of it (although that is a bit of a job) but Allen finding the time to change it.

I believe anything can be improved for the simple fact that nothing is perfect. We can maybe start an unoffical wish list as to the new GDF look. Hey maybe we'll even get some of it to come through.

I understand your point Jeff but you did come off on the wrong foot. Anyhow it's an idea and something I've wanted to try for a while. Lets see what the future holds.

sister

07-06-2004, 04:50 PM

i actually find the forum style perfect, helps me relax...especially after working on the pc i just come in here and read.....my eyes finally relax not having to pay attention to all the details..... it's like opening up the newspaper. i personally find fancy GD forums childish, it just looks like they have to impress someone.....maybe i'm wrong but a forum is something quite serious and not a piece of art....has to be clear and easy to use.

Magnus

07-06-2004, 05:41 PM

I'm sure we could all find things with the site we could improve on. But it's not a piano people, it doesn't have to be perfect. How do you plan to cohessively make changes to the site when you spread the design aspect over hundreds of people? No one will agree...

It's functional, and it works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

"The function of a warrior is to eliminate an exterior enemy presence. A warrior is an antitoxin, a protector. The warrior does combat where and when necessary and not otherwise. "

- Ambrose Hollingworth Redmoon

DeleteYourself

07-06-2004, 05:44 PM

I'm with uncle. If you personally have the time to redesign the minor and fairly insignificant elements of the forum that could use a tweak, then have at it. As long as it doesn't make an excessive amount of work for Allen, I don't see anything wrong with it. I personally don't have the time, nor I do I care that much.

http://www.dafenix.org/todd/dy.gif
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PrintDriver

07-06-2004, 06:06 PM

One guy is complaining here.
Don't fix if it ain't broke.
Any extra work for Allen is just that - Extra Work.
I'm with Sister. It's professional, and functional (except for the search still).
It's fine.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

D-Zine

07-06-2004, 06:07 PM

I love this place...I loved it before we upgraded. I don't care about the outside look of the board...just the work once you dive inside! :o)

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

uncle carbunkle

07-06-2004, 06:10 PM

i just wanted to stop the bitching!

:)

greetings, earthlings. take me to your dealer.

D-Zine

07-06-2004, 06:24 PM

Hahahhaha!!

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Silence04

07-06-2004, 06:39 PM

i think it looks just like it should, A FORUM!

www.jdcgraphics.net (http://www.jdcgraphics.net/)- currentlyunder construction
http://www.jdcgraphics.net/banner.gif

DeleteYourself

07-06-2004, 06:47 PM

Word.

http://www.dafenix.org/todd/dy.gif
Support Music and Arts Education
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ylaenna

07-06-2004, 11:07 PM

I like it just the way it is, too. Anything 'pretty' is bound to take more time to load. I like how its simplicity lets me switch from thread to thread really quickly.

MILK! MILK! LEMONADE!

phatfoo

07-07-2004, 04:30 PM

Jeff said...
Who cares what it looks like?! Blasphemy!!!11!!1

As designers I think its our responsibility to un-ghetto the poor retarded boys etch-a-sketch tomfoolery is it not? We most definitely SHOULD care what the forum looks like when it carries such a lofty name as THE Graphic Design Forum.

But yeah I've messed with forum skins before and they ARE a pain in the butt. I've had to wrestle with PHPbb once or twice and it sucked. But at least a better logo, header, main menu. I mean c'mon. If you were to critique everthing from the "no advertising..." line up, what would you say?

Here's what I'd say.

The logo is so so. GraphicDesign isn't to bad but that font with the calligraphy feel to it I don't think is very representative of the direction of most of the people on this board (based on my whopping 2 days of browsing). The word Forum in Helvetica or Univers or whatever seems simply tacked on and could be integrated better.

The "No Advertising..." line is an eyesore. I realize that you want people to pay attention to it, but surely theres a better solution that all caps yellow reversed out of black.

"Draw You Own Conclusions" as a tag line doesn't do that much for me... yes yes i get the Draw part... but the obligatory drop shadow? Plain 'ol Helveticunivers ? Surely we can do better here. Perhaps even attaching to a the logo as taglines tend to be.

I don't mind the simple menu items separated by pipes " | | | | " though heh.

/emoticons/devil.gif /emoticons/devil.gif /emoticons/devil.gif

i'd like to say that i am possibly one of the few that totally agree with this. attention to detail is very important, as creative design goes. that's my 2-cents worth, for whatever it's worth...

</CODE>

DFuture

07-07-2004, 04:48 PM

amen sister.

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/17875/bluebanner.gif

Keyare

07-08-2004, 12:08 AM

You could NEVER get a bunch of graphic designers to agree on what it should look like.

if it was designed by committee - it would probably look just like it does.

imagine if one of us hoity toity new age fancypants designers re-did it - the bytching would be even worse!

HostBreak Hosting Services

07-08-2004, 06:58 AM

'Gold Designer' I think you are right /emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Imran Zaheer
http://www.hostbreak.com
~ Affordable Web Hosting Starting from $4.99
~ FREE Domain Registration

DFuture

07-08-2004, 07:02 PM

So we are just going to leave it alone right?

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/17875/bluebanner.gif

D-Zine

07-08-2004, 07:20 PM

Yup! Dats right! :oP

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

defjoe

07-08-2004, 09:00 PM

I for one am pushing for Magnus's redesign..that's the best. Sorry Allen.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

Holliday

07-08-2004, 10:53 PM

Second! Do I get an IPoo too?

Jeff

07-10-2004, 08:45 AM

OK... I'm late getting back here... but as promised I took a stab at something that might not be TOO difficult or time consuming to implement. Just tweaking the header area whilst leaving the rest (pain in the ass to change forum templates I'm sure) alone. Was trying to come up with something that might visually communicate the idea of the forum without over-designing things. I'm not sure about the register mark in the speech bubble but I wasn't coming up with any better symbols to put in there. On the first one I started a version that 'faded' to pixelized to the right (to try and bridge both print AND web) but it wasn't turning out right so I left it clean for now. Anyway... here's what I came up with. Even if it doesn't prompt/warrant a change, could be fun to talk about anyway. Shred away, I've got thick skin. :D

http://www.fourtwentyone.com/images/forumposts/gdfheader1.jpg

http://www.fourtwentyone.com/images/forumposts/gdfheader2.jpg

bah!

Post Edited (Jeff) : 7/10/2004 4:45:22 AM GMT

funnyaction

07-10-2004, 08:23 PM

Seems like a bit much, though.

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/62583/sig.gif

D-Frag

07-10-2004, 09:34 PM

'Draw your own conclusion'

I got banned from cybertarp...boohooooo

D-Zine

07-10-2004, 11:06 PM

too trendy...

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

sister

07-10-2004, 11:42 PM

i actually think they're nice

Kool

07-11-2004, 12:12 AM

I locked this thread because I think this topic could get out of hand.

Jeff, it should be obvious to you if you read the replies, that the people who could make these changes have absolutely no interest in doing so. You're just going to have to live with our 'getto' look. Sometime Allen will get a six pack in him and re-do the header. Until then go look at Keyare's duck picture or join the word associatian threads. Just stop beating this dead horse ok.

Your friendly moderator, /emoticons/cool.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~rnick9/KoolsSig.gif

'I used to be with it. But then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me.' Abraham Simpson