Digital SLR Worth it???

[Jriddim]

Hey everyone.. last year I bought a sony w5, 5 megapixel camera.. I love it for what it is, but i think it may be time to upgrade soon. Im really interested in the digital rebel xt.. the 8mp E0S.. It looks like a really awesome camera... Im just wondering if it would be smarter to just buy a new lens for my sony... or spend 700$ on a rebel.. I heard that you can only use the viewfinder to set up shots with the rebel and not use the lcd.. is this true?? I hear you guys talk alot of good about this camera and im just afraid I wont get my moneys worth.. Im just a designer starting to season myself, but im trying to plan for the future:) I like to shoot my own pics rather than use a stock site... should I stick with the sony, upgrade the lens, or sell it while i can still get some decent money for it and upgrade completely to a SLR?... what are the real advantages of an SLR vs. a high MP point and shoot?


sorry for all the questons... any help would be great!

[Broacher]

I smell a rationalizing gadgetophile.

"But Honey, the guys on the Graphic Design Forum said it was really worth it!"

[DesignerScott]

I'm in the same boat, except right my camera broke leaving me with a crappy 2mp kodak POS,
I'm just holding out for my next paycheck and another great deal. Every once in awhile Dell has coupons that can stack and bring the price for the rebelXT with lens to around$500-$600 I think.

[steve-o]

Man. What a loaded question!

So I'll give the standard loaded reply:

It all depends on your needs. What size prints will you need? Is image quality super important? Do you need multiple lenses?

Because it is an SLR, you cannot view the image through the LCD, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion.

The difference between a high-end P&S (as defined as a digital camera that isn't an SLR) and an SLR is the interchangeable lenses.

If you buy an SLR, then you will probably want to invest in pro grade lenses for optimal image quality.

Jsut some rambling thoughts on this.

[Tyger]

I would've said the same as Steve here bud. I own an XT and actually it's a great time to buy right now, as prices are going down. If you can spend a little I would suggest the 20D or even the 30D. If you want to go Nikon the D50 and D70 are great cameras too. The one thing that turns people off from the XT is that it is small in size, but with a battery grip it feels much better, to be honest with you I liked the feel of the d70 better than the XT at the time but was limited on funds but I would have opted for the 20D.

As Steve said, you are buying into a system so you'll be spending more money eventually on other things with a DSLR camera.

Nothing beats the quality of an SLR camera, yeah you pay for it but it's well worth it IMO.

[colonel5]

Look around for the 1st Digital Rebel (not the XT) I've heard a lot better reviews on it than I have on the XT, plus you'd be able to save a little money and put that towards lenses for the camera.

just my 2 cents

[morea]

I'd give my left ovary for a digital SLR. Probably the right one too. I'm not using them for anything.

[colonel5]

I'd give my left ovary for a digital SLR. Probably the right one too. I'm not using them for anything.

i'll take you up on that offer. I prefer the left one, but whatever best suites you... when the mailman asks just tell him it's for a science experiment

[Jriddim]

Man. What a loaded question!

So I'll give the standard loaded reply:

It all depends on your needs. What size prints will you need? Is image quality super important? Do you need multiple lenses?

Because it is an SLR, you cannot view the image through the LCD, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion.

The difference between a high-end P&S (as defined as a digital camera that isn't an SLR) and an SLR is the interchangeable lenses.

If you buy an SLR, then you will probably want to invest in pro grade lenses for optimal image quality.

Jsut some rambling thoughts on this.



yeah.. see image quality is very importaint... But I think going SLR right away might be breaking off more than i can chew because the fact of having to buy lenses. That seems a little too expensive considering im a broke college student. I dunno im still a little confused. Is it a bad idea to use a high end P&S for design work?? I mean I don't think im going to be designing anything bigger than poster size as of now. After seeing those rodeo pics tyger took with his rebel, really made my mouth drop, and i know my camera i have now is pretty uncapable of that quality.. but i wanna see a 8mp P&S in comparison to a 8mp SLR. How is some P&S capable of so many modes with just one lens? I know this is another loaded question LOL.

[Jriddim]

Actually, disregard my last post... Buying an SLR will actually be the only way to go because im sure it will be the last camera I buy FOR A WHILE. I think if I got a semi-slr or a high end P&S... I would risk regretting getting the SLR. And I would probably end up re-selling the P&S and loose money.. Its an investment is what im trying to say! I mean would i really need to upgrade from a 8mp Rebel E05? any time soon? I think thats the type of camera that you keep for a while no?

[Broacher]

>>Is it a bad idea to use a high end P&S for design work?? I mean I don't think im going to be designing anything bigger than poster size as of now.<<

What kind of design work? Student portfolio? Are you talking a design portfolio? Realistically, I wouldn't worry about it if the shots are decent. If you're studying to be a designer, I'd be more interested in seeing your design skill, not your photography skill, or at the least, I'd understand that you couldn't afford top pro-photogaphy gear.

For the record, I just bought a Fuji FinePix S5200 for $400 (Cdn) that takes great quality shots, has a very nice 10x optical zoom, and a switch between a back of camera panel screen or a little viewfinder (electronic) display. It's been great. In fact, I've been using it for some work projects and even our resident staff photographer admits it often takes a better shot than the DX-70 they got him. The main reason for that? I rarely use the flash. Almost all my shots are done on the 'N' (natural lighting) auto mode.

The Fuji Finepix line is distinct from most other ones because they have this extra sensitive CCD which gives me useable film speed of 800 ISO and slightly noisy 1600. I understand the next line they just launched is doubling this sensitivity.

The best thing is that most of my portraits don't have that 'flattened' flash look, and that extra sensitivity really is great for outdoor lighting shots. And the white balance auto stuff does a great job at indoor lighting situations. Hey, for $400 bucks, I'm quite happy. With a one-gig memory card (it's a 5mp model), it also gives me about 14 minutes of 640x480 video, which is all I really need for most occasions. I've already got two people in my office who want to buy one for themselves once they've seen what it can do.

Sure, I was eyeing the SLR's-- but this is primarily the family camera, and my wife insisted on finding something that she could operate easily--and wouldn't bust the piggy bank. It does all that--no problem. Anyhow, if low-light/natural lighting photography is important to you, be sure to check out the Fuji line.

[Jriddim]

Thank you very much Broacher,
The main reason why im even worrying about a camera is that i know i could still get decent money for my sony, and I was willing to save up for a really nice camera just because I know im gonna be using it alot in the future (I want to freelance print design/illustration). And im sure I would be needing a higher end camer for more professional work.. As of now, Im just really building up my portfolio, and then to transfer to an artschool to further expand my design/output knowledge. Then its gonna be tough! I think im gonna try freelancing right outa school, and already having some decent equipment will help:). But I am going to look into the finepix right now.. I think that might be what im looking for, because yes I would be using mainly natural light in Auto too.. And, that 10x optical zoom sounds sweet. Im sure It will blow my sony so far outa the water, I will be satisified for a few years:)

[Jriddim]

That camera looks real nice Broacher! and its only 299$ now!

My only question, is the size ( is it on the big or small side?) and the speed... can it take fast pics with not alot of lag?

[Broacher]

I think it can handle something like one every 0.9 sec in multi-burst mode. I don't know if I've ever used it. Big? Well, anything with a 10x or higher op zoom is gonna be bigger than the next step down, the 3x range. You might be interested in the bracket mode exposure too-- which you can set to different f-stop ranges. I think that the sensor and software are the same as the Finepix-11, or whatever the 3x optic model is, but I decided to put up with a slighlty less convenient size for a better zoom range.

The biggest complaint I have is that manual focus is something that can only easily be performed by Cirque de Soleil performers. Battery life is pretty good. I probably average about 200 shots before I need to pop in a new set of rechargeables. That's the other difference and part of the size/weight factor of this model-- it's powered by 4AAs. I don't mind this so much because in an emergency, I can always duck into almost any convenient store and buy a cheap pack of AAs to finish a shot, if need be. Of course, certain modes (like continuous auto focus, and rapid shot, consume more battery time).

Actually, when it's in your hand, you might be surprised how light it is. Or maybe it's because I'm moving from an old film 35mm with a much heavier zoom. On the other hand, I find a little more weight 'easier' to physically stabilize against camera shake when shooting at low shutter speeds on full zoom.

A couple of other 'goodies': it's the only Fuji Finepix model that offers a RAW image mode. And, unlike the F-11 model, you can play direct to a TV from the camera itself (the F11 does this from the AC adapter). And you have to have the latest Pshop CS2 upgrade to access the particular Fuji RAW file format (though I did find a very good free RAW processor that handled it for free, on-line, if you're interested.)

I don't own a separate video camera, so the 14 minute 640x480 video feature appealed to me too, and it's why I went for the 1 gig mem card. Even my wife has since conceded it was a good idea (if nothing else, it kinda forces you to be more selective at family 'video' moments. Anyone who's sat through hours of poorly shot family videos will know what I mean). The biggest drawback in video mode is that you can't change the zoom setting once you start recording. But even so, it does a decent job.

FWIW, I read almost nothing but very favourable reviews by most testers on this model prior to deciding on it.

As for your decision on whether to spend more or not--if you're still in school, by the time you actually get to a stage where your work would demand bigger mbyte shots, better optics, etc-- I'm sure that the consumer line will have gone a long way catching up to the specs of the current pro models. Look back three years (or less!) and you'll see what I mean.

[nyc_skater]

I own a Rebel XT and a p&s 7mp sony, I love them both. Here are my thoughts

My sony takes awesome pictures, really good color and sharpness, it's small, portable and I can compose in the lcd which i find is nice for low angle shots when I don't want to lay on the ground with my slr.

Now the slr is great for speed and aperature setings, and when I want to use studio lighting, I also use it for freelnace work and although I could get away with using my sony for those jobs, the rebel is professional looking.

The price is good, but the biggest thing I will never say enough is it's all about the lenses, you could spend $700 or $800 on the camera and find out later that the stock lens that comes with it is a POS and your p&s takes better pictures!!

I own 5 lenses and they total about $8000 worth of glass, I have a macro, uber wide low F, wide zoom, super low F 50mm and low F zoom.

Consider what you need it for, I take a lot of action stuff and architecture so I need the fast F stops and wide angles which a p&s could never accomplish, but it al comes with a price tag.

I could never imagine what I would do with the budget lens that comes with the package camera that you see a lot.

[Jriddim]

Thanks guys.. I think im gonna hold off for a little while, save my money.. and wait for a price drop, and or a good deal.. 8000$ worth of lenses??? HOLY SH*T!!!

[nyc_skater]

Thanks guys.. I think im gonna hold off for a little while, save my money.. and wait for a price drop, and or a good deal.. 8000$ worth of lenses??? HOLY SH*T!!!

Once you start to realize how big of a difference going from a F-stop of 3.4 to 2.8 for a zoom lens can make it's hard to use much else. unfortunetly, Canon and others know this too and in order to make a lens with such a low F stop it costs tons. Go on B&H and look for a lens with an f-stop of 1 which is 100% open aperature, you might pay thousands for that even if it's only a 50mmm lens.

[Tyger]

Here's a great read about the pros and cons of DSLR vs P&S cameras.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/SLRvsDIGICAM/SLRA.HTM

Most P&S cameras will give you great quality photo's "out of the camera". They are made to be print ready with no post processing. SLR camera photos usualy has to have a little post done, it's just the nature of the beast.

As stated in the link above there are alot of pros and cons on both sides but as NYC mentioned as you get deeper into photography you will get a better idea of what you want in terms of equipment.

If you are going the p&s route do alot of home work and look at a few key....

ISO: what is the quality at the highest ISO setting...they tend to be quite noisy on P&S cameras.

Zoom: don't be fooled by digital zoom, look for a camera that has good optical zoom and again look at the quality of the image at it's max optical zoom.

Settings: Many P&S cameras have almost SLR like setting where you can adjust shutter speed, fstop etc. Find one where you can switch to manual and have more control....this will help you when you make the switch to an SLR camera.


Quote form the link above...
The Bottom Line(s)
Though we get many requests to do so, we can't tell you what kind of camera will be right for you, we can only make suggestions and explain what a given camera--and in this case a given type of camera--is good for. Generally speaking, if you are struggling to get the photos you want with the camera you have because it's too slow, you might consider a digital SLR. You have to be willing to carry it with you like you would a smaller camera, but the good news is that the latest offerings are surprisingly small and light.

If you're looking for greater portability, the small All-in-one digicams are the best choice. Those looking for an all-purpose family camera that can take video and stills with ease really should spend that $400 to $500 for an image-stabilized long zoom digicam model. This is the current sweet spot in the market, and I predict it will be so for a while to come, until these features can be integrated into a smaller and slimmer package.

The best news I can tell you is that digital cameras of every sort are getting better and better regardless of category, and the prices continue to fall, so it won't be long before you have a great digital camera for every conceivable photographic situation.

Happy shooting!

[Broacher]

>>Once you start to realize how big of a difference going from a F-stop of 3.4 to 2.8 for a zoom lens can make it's hard to use much else.<<

Again, this also makes the case for a more sensitive CCD unit. A 2.8 with a top ISO sensitivity of 400 vs. a 3.4 with a top rating of 1600. And with digital, the advantage is even bigger than it is with conventional film's speed because it's no problem for the software to 'crank down' the sensitivity electronically for shooting. So you get the full range through the whole range of light conditions. The only reason I mention this is because if you're used to conventional film thinking you instinctively pick lens speed over film speed if you can afford it--but with the digital choice, pickup sensitivity can make the purchasing decision a little more complicated.

[Jriddim]

Your all very very helpfull everyone. I really apreciate your help. I got alot of thinking/researching to do!.. all and all, im just trying to plan for the future;)

[nyc_skater]

>>Once you start to realize how big of a difference going from a F-stop of 3.4 to 2.8 for a zoom lens can make it's hard to use much else.<<

Again, this also makes the case for a more sensitive CCD unit. A 2.8 with a top ISO sensitivity of 400 vs. a 3.4 with a top rating of 1600. And with digital, the advantage is even bigger than it is with conventional film's speed because it's no problem for the software to 'crank down' the sensitivity electronically for shooting. So you get the full range through the whole range of light conditions. The only reason I mention this is because if you're used to conventional film thinking you instinctively pick lens speed over film speed if you can afford it--but with the digital choice, pickup sensitivity can make the purchasing decision a little more complicated.

This is all true, but the big drawback of using a high digitilly induced ISO is noise, this is why you still gotta sheel out big clams for top lenses.

[Broacher]

Yep, noise is the bugaboo. But Fuji's tech has done a very decent job at this-- by comparison to other's I checked out. At 800 it's just becoming visible. At 1600 ISO it's more visible, but still a very useable exchange (especially if you compare it to real 1600 film!). But their latest generation of CCD's has pushed their sens. to 3200. So, I'm speculating here, but it's my guess that this has made their new 1600 noise levels to match last year's 800.

Here's a funny quote from one reviewer I found who had tested one of their new machines:

"Of course, low noise is supposed to be this camera's claim to fame, and indeed, it performed very well in our tests. At ISO 100 and ISO 200, the F30 had very low noise with only a few speckles showing up in very dark colors. At ISO 400, noise jumps a bit, becoming noticeable but not distracting. At ISO 800 and above, there is a just noticeable loss of sharpness. This could be an effect of the noise, though it seems like a side effect of Fuji's noise-reduction image processing. That means that at ISO 800, noise is only slightly more prevalent than at ISO 400 and remains well under control. By ISO 1,600, noise becomes obvious, but 8.5x11-inch prints we made were definitely usable. By ISO 3,200, noise obscured significant amounts of image detail and yielded prints that were generally unacceptable but might be OK in extreme circumstances. For example, while I'd prefer not to use ISO 3,200 with this camera, if I had to choose between capturing a shot of Britney Spears dropping her baby again or missing the moment, I'd use the F30's ISO 3,200 and probably still be able to get the National Enquirer to buy the image." (that's from here: http://reviews.cnet.com/Fujifilm_FinePix_F30/4514-6501_7-31732967.html)

So, if Britney watching is on your list...

[DesignerScott]

Heads up, Quick Decision Time.
Dell Coupon plus rebate brings price for silver rebelxt down to $585.02 with free shipping.
Go to dealsdigger.com and search for rebel on the page for the details. Ends tomorrow though.

[dariobt]

Thinking about upgrading my close-to-three-year-old Canon EOS 300D Rebel. 350D specs arent bad but the 20D or 30D seems to be the more logical upgrade. But my ultimate dream camera for now would be the EOS-1D Mark II. *sigh*

[steve-o]

Seems what most people say is to upgrade to the 350 and use the extra dough on a good lens.

I'll be in the same boat as you soon. I have an older 300D, and I'm looking to upgrade soon. Since I'm not a professional photographer, I may just go with the 350XT since it supports AI Servo focusing.

[morea]

nice tiara, steve. ;)

[dariobt]

EOS 350D + a good lens sounds like a good idea. 14-frame buffer for JPEG and 4 frames for RAW at 3 fps. not bad. 90-300mm f4.5/5.6 lens. :)

[Dano_UNLTD]

I have a 350D and love it, i would have liked to go to the 20D but i needed the camera and didnt have the cash for the 20D at the time, so my plan is to start building up a nice range of lenses for my kit and once i have a satisfactory array of lenses drop the big ones on a 5D or something like that!

Remember the lenses can be used on any of the cameras in the canon range so start of with something like a 350 and you can always upgrade later without loosing any money on the lenses you have already aquired.

Dan