I am frustrated with an overcrowded field!! yes again right forum now!!!

[ryaninwa]

I posted a message about this before but in the wrong forum, however I am still very frustrated. Here in the Pacific Northwest, Seattle, there is an overload of competition in this field. The yellow pages has about 6 full pages full of graphic design firms, freelancers, or eager individuals who want to freelance. My guess is that most of us want to freelance, because of the obvious bonuses, however it bugs me that if you want to bid for a job or apply for one you have to be good enough to get picked from a large pool of prospectives, roughly 25 to 40. I consider myself an average guy just trying to make a living and maybe eventually pay off my 35,000 student loan debt. Does anyone know how I can succeed in a crowd of thousands!!!!!

[PrintDriver]

Move.

It's like the lottery.
You don't play, you don't win.
I lose 4 bids for every one I do get. Fabrication is a different field but I ain't whinin' that there are far too many fabricators out there and I don't get the jobs because we're Average. We're not. We're much, MUCH better than average. Some client going low-bidder always gets what he pays for....
You got the wrong attitude bud.
Average don't make it in GD. Only the best will do. No one is gonna hire the guy who comes in and says he's 'average'.
As you said yourself, 'you have to be good enough to get picked from a large pool of prospectives...'
Welcome to the real world!
Why do you think you are 'entitled'? Because you spent 35k on an education?
Do you have a book?
Do you have a resume?
Have you actually gone out and pounded on the doors of all those graphic firms?
I see 6 pages of graphic firms as a hell of an opportunity! Outta all those places, someone must be looking for someone. Imagine if there was only ONE ENTRY. Then you could complain.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Post Edited (PrintDriver) : 7/4/2004 2:25:46 PM GMT

[defjoe]

^what he said^

all you noobs have to stop whining... start WORKING!

NOTHING is going to be handed to you. the days of high school and mom and daddy's hand outs are over.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[D-Zine]

Agreed! You gotta get out there, mail the hell outta yer resume, set up a portfolio website and again call your local print shops and see if they are looking for anyone. Ya just gotta do it!!! Quit worrying about the over saturated market. It's that way almost everywhere. We have all been there, we have all worked crap jobs before we got to something we were happy with. It's just part of the real world!!!

Like PD said...6 pages of design firms is a helluva opportunity. But there aren't JUST design firms that you can work at... Check the print shops, check the newspapers, shopping guides, any publications you have locally, colleges, hospitals - think outside of the box and not JUST design firms or ad agencies.

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

[paulrandfan]

I agree (even tho I'm a newbie myself). I finally got a job, and I mailed....sheesh, definately over 100 places. Mass distribute and get out there and make connections...that's the only advice anyone ever gave me and it's working so far. This business is crowded, but that doesn't mean everyone is qualified. It's not like medicine where you have to have a piece of paper to do it. Anyone can say they are a graphic designer, but few are actually really good. The people on this board have given me some great advice and I always look to their wisdom. Listen, and keep looking!

[PrintDriver]

Def- this is the same noob.
I think a few months in a grocery store or something will give him some incentive. Quite a few of us started there. LOL!

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Frag]

I remember I called all 5 pages of graphic design firms in the phone book right out of college and sent every one of them a resume, never got hired by any of them, but it was a noble cause. If you have a college that you spent that 35k$ on, they should have a job placement thing going, try that route. Im with PD, I see 6 pages of graphic design firms as a hell of an oppurtunity to get hired somewhere.....and believe me kid, freelance aint all its cracked up to be, having a nice plush office with full benefits sounds pretty fricken tempting to me.




http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/13115/killer_cartoon.gif

[Eagle]

[quote]

ryaninwa said...
...it bugs me that if you want to bid for a job or apply for one you have to be good enough to get picked from a large pool of prospectives...
[quote]That's the general idea! http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/icon_mrgreen.gif




http://www.eagleimagery.co.uk

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~eeqip/sigs/ei_adban468x60.jpg

[ryaninwa]

******ATTENTION MODERATOR PLEASE READ HOW THESE ANGRY PEOPLE ARE ACTING OUT! **********


BLATENT INSULT #1 defjoe said, 'all you noobs have to stop whining... start WORKING!'

BLATENT INSULT #2 printdriver said 'Def- this is the same noob.

BLATENT INSULT #3 defjoe said 'the days of high school and mom and daddy's hand outs are over.'

KIDS TALK LIKE ADULTS PLEASE!!!

[PrintDriver]

Ok, so we haven't really helped the guy.

ryaninwa, do you have any work experience at all? Did you do an internship?
What is your area of specific interest? Web, Print, Display, Packaging, ???
Do you have a portfolio, both a book and online?
If you aren't into web design, hire one of your classmates or trade him a business card design or something to set you up with some kind of web presence.

You cannot expect to be hired by a design firm right out of school. And certainly not for what you read about in Salary.com. I'm surprised you didn't mention that every firm that advertises is looking for someone with 4 to 5 years experience but how do you get experience if you can't get hired. We hear that one all the time too.

We gave you some good advice in the other thread. If you are freelancing, you have to market yourself. Send out postcards to local, and not so local businesses advertising your services. If you aren't making enough money freelancing, get a job in a print shop. Learn about prepress cuz seriously, you need to know it to avoid costly mistakes. Or get a job doing promotional production work. Check your college for a placement or mentor service like D-Frag says. Take an internship. You may work for free (or nearly) but you will at least add the time toward that 4 to 5 everyone is looking for.

If you have the skills contact Aquent and let them pimp for you for a while. I will warn you though, they will turn you down if you don't have a portfolio that shows you have the skills, and sometimes even they will want 2 to 3 years experience cuz they have a rep to uphold too.

GD is a comptetive industry. If you don't chase it, you will fail. Nothing is handed to you - unless you are extremely lucky to be in the right place at the right time. I wouldn't bet my next meal on that happening.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Zine]

They aren't acting out or speaking like kids and they aren't insulting you - just telling it like it is out here in the graphic design world. And Defjoe is a moderator on this forum.

http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

[PrintDriver]

Whoa, and I was gonna help you out, dude.
Obviously you DO want everyone to hand feed you.
Mods, maybe we should lock this thread down?
I was only pointing out that you are the same Newbie who posted the silver spoon thread.
I think maybe you should post your complaint on any other graphic design forum and see where it leads you.
We are pretty darn tame when it comes to noobs. We let them ask 'just learning' questions without flaming their ass.
In fact I was trying to turn the thread around to your benefit while you were off crying to mommy.
Grow up.
The world will eat you alive.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Post Edited (PrintDriver) : 7/4/2004 9:11:37 PM GMT

[ryaninwa]

All your heads are way to high in the clouds, I dont think I am going to chat with you anymore because you are way too 'high- class' for me. I thought designers were about being creative and fun and not who has the best clothes, hair due, or nice car. Apparently you're success has made you forget about that, dont let it get to your head it may hurt you someday. I think having good luck and succeding builts up and ultra ego in peoples heads were they think they know everything and constantly look down upon people. I dont mind what other people think, but when hiring managers adopt this 'higher-up, I am better than you' attitude' they feel invinsible and sometimes discriminate and hire only men, or the typical dark short haired man with the hollywood look.

LOOK IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT I SAY THEN LEAVE THE SOAPBOX, THIS IS A PLACE TO VENT GET IT.

[PrintDriver]

Excuse me, but I will 'vent' right back at you.
Not once have WE mentioned clothes, hair or cars. ONLY YOU have that particular hang up.

I don't drive a nice car, wear Walmart jeans and boots to work and get my boy's regular at the barber shop down the street.

I don't look down upon people unless they put themselves on the ground.

But I don't like nice, young college students who think because they spent 35k on an education they can tell me I don't know where it's at when they are still wearing their rosey colored glasses. Then going on to insult every hard working GD who inhabits this forum based on some silly misperception about hollywood looks.

Yes the soapbox is a place to vent. If you don't like the answers you get, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Like I said, try your 'poor me' act on any other GD website and see what it gets you.
I think you'll find you'll like their answers even less than you do ours. At least we offer you some ideas on getting yourself out there. Places like About.com would either ignore you completely or flame you bad. What you got here was only a toasting.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Post Edited (PrintDriver) : 7/4/2004 10:30:29 PM GMT

[PrintDriver]

Oh look.
I let me get pissed off.
Oh well, Thanks thread.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Zine]

Honestly ryaninwa...you are new here and shouldn't be making assumptions about the people on this board who you don't know anything about. Everyone that posted in your thread was just letting you know that this is how it is in the real world of graphic design. "Stop whining and get out there" isn't an insult. It's just what you have to do to make it!! This is it! It's a tough field. I didn't really think anyone was being harsh or mouthing off to you. There were no blatant insults, not from Joe or PD anyway..only from you claiming that we seem to have our heads stuck up our a$$es or whatever. You don't know these members...you don't know what each and everyone of them do at their graphic design jobs, or how much money they make or even have any clue as to what type of personality they have or the hardships they may have had to overcome. There is no reason for you to be so rude. Period.

And for the record, I think it ISconsidered "whining" when you post a threadnot once but TWICE about the market being oversaturated and how you can't find a job. In the 1st thread you started ---> http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/?f=8&m=50169&g=50237#m50237I think you got alot of good feedback from our members...what you choose to do with that information is up to you. Only you can make yourself successful in this field!

Threads locked.




http://coastalcarousel.com/GDF/metatag3.jpg

Post Edited (D-Zine) : 7/5/2004 12:07:52 AM GMT