Asking the boss...how much am I worth?

[Drorain]

I need a little bit of advice. I have been a production artist and designer for about 2 years now. My history started with a big box online printer, it was mill labor basically. Designing for customers…who could walk away without buying the product or a printed piece. The design was provided as a free service, then was bastardized from their…first 50 dollar logos, then a charge that never was applied, lots of BS. So I left to go to a small business that was paying 3k more a year. So yay I’m making better money and doing a lot better projects. Basically I’ve matured quite a bit in my time here, leaving the online printer and coming here I have since worked on 3 newsletters (12 pages each), done signage and sales materials and basically developed 3 brands for invitation lines. Now here’s the issue…the pay is not near what it should be, and I have a chance to propose a review on my 1 year anniversary. I will be past the sacred 2+ years experience propelling me from entry level to junior designer level. I need to propose in a report (college style) an increase and the work I’ve done over the last year. Mentioning the level of success they’ve had through my work I suppose as well. My question is when proposing an increase what kind of language should I use, and what range should I go for. People at my level can receive 37-42k in Boston, I’d settle for 35-36k…still I’d be asking for about a 12-15% increase, which is no small matter. My choice on whether or not I stick with this hinges on money really because I’ve paid my dues here and know I can get better outside. I love the team I’m with, but there are no ‘fringe benefits’ to make up for the lack of pay. I know the company could also afford it, but they simply don’t have the desire to start people at this much. So I’d appreciate any thoughts, or advice I should use to make this process easier and more beneficial to me. Otherwise in October I’ll start looking.

For them it means taking on another green employee who does less than I do now, and keeping them possibly for only a year. It's a viscious cycle.

[shadepics]

Make sure to put it in monetary terms. Justify their extra spending on you, in profits for them.

[Drorain]

yes, I have also found 3 sources to site for salaries online including aiga/aquent and another site...for two specific jobs. I will show that even as entry level I was undercut, but as production artist I was way undercut.

My boss also mentioned that all of the extra time spent working the 8 weeks up to the trade show would be weighed in the review, so I will be siting much of the work done in that time period as well.

[shadepics]

I would be careful not to put it in a way that makes it look like you were way undercut or something, focus on the postitives you brign to the company, eg willingness to work etc and use those salary figures as a sort of guideline to what you'd like to be receiving.

[Drorain]

oh yes, quite right, the undercut is the feeling have have...but not the feeling I'll put forth in the essay/report/proposal, whatever you want to call it.

I remember Colonel5 did this same thing and came back successful, much to my surprise. So why do I have the sudden gonads in asking for an increase...frankly I know a couple headhunters that reaaally wanted to place me but I didnt want to cut and run from here

[ButlerCreative]

Research is key...like you said you must provide fact driven results on how your creative abilities and work ethic have driven results for the company. It's all about the return on investment for corporate types. They don't care how hard you have worked and how much you LOVE what you do. I have been in your situation and it is not easy. My boss played it like it was a game...so hey, play the game I guess. If they are not willing to realize your talent and reward you for it then it's probably not the place for a long term relationship!

[Drorain]

exactly...when they hired me, they said we'd like to have someone who'll stay more than a year...I will deliver on my promise if they deliver to me. They really asked themselves if I could take the place of my boss eventually, I went through 5...read that...FIVE... interviews!

So I don't take it lightly. results...how to measure them, well I suppose the response rate to the newsletter is some of it. As well as the success of two of the specific products at the show.

[ButlerCreative]

Exactly...maybe compare the type of work and quality of work that was there before you and what is being produced now may help...just don't step on anyones toes. It's not worth the amount of time lost and money spent to find another employee that only "MIGHT" be as talented. Try to explain the value of keeping the good employees that they already have invested that time into!

[Logo-Mechanix]

I would imagine you are very valuable to the company and they most likely know just how valuable. I would not short change myself, ask for what you are worth, if you are that valuable they won't can you for it they may come back with a counter offer but asking for less than you are worth will not look good. You should always feel (is if its true of course) that you are big part of the company and it would be worth it to them to keep.

This is something I have only begun to hear about recently, having to justify your worth to the company in order to get a raise. I have never had to do this any place I have worked. At my current job, which is a small company, we get a review every year and basically if you are good at what you do and an asset to the company you get a raise. If you are not, you usually don't reach that one year.

[Drorain]

yes it really is sad, but i's the changing face of the workplace. I do think companies are now discovering off-shoring costs as much as it does to do onshore, but i dont need to worry about our company doing all that. The pres micromanages everything so he needs his people in sight

[Logo-Mechanix]

Ditto here, you can't micromanage someone on the other side of the world.

[Ghastly]

what you have to bear in mind is that your value is in some way:
proportional to the company's budget, and to the quality and quantity of your work (hence profit you can yield). However, it is also in some way...
negatively proportional to how much they expect they have to pay you now, how much they expect you to be asking for in the future, how many spec applicants they have had for your position, the amount of other staff who would also like a payrise and have not succeeded (think of dominoes), the scope of their capabilities vs your ambition, as well as how much your boss gets paid and the extent to which he/she can do your job...I bet there are more as well

The person who decides how much they're gonna be paying you expects you to present them with the facts about your quantity and quality of work...they would be surprised if you didn't...By doing only this though the vast amount of negative factors that would influence their judgement are allowed to roam unchecked...look for as many of their negatives as you can, scrutinize them...and then counter them! :cool:

[Navian]

How much are you really? Find out. (http://www.humanforsale.com)


I'm worth: $2,035,240

I havent seen a check for it yet.

[Drorain]

very good point Ghastly! I have heard people say I am doing much more than my predessesor, but that could be irrelevent. I am thinking of the point/counterpoints as well. If nothing else, the pres is an excellent salesman...and might play up the idea of experience. Truth be told I have already everything I can pull from here. Comparatively to other people...well in my discussions I have learned reviews are not offered, they basically need to be demanded. Increases happen usually when moving up, or threatening to move out. The business makes money, and cuts corners in many ways. Either way I never burn bridges and I have 1 or 2 places I can goto if things didnt go...favorably here

[Drorain]

lol I'm 1.5million

[rickself]

I just went through this, tho prepress is a bit different than designing...but we're still after the same end result.
I also went to a website that, after a short interview, compared what I make to what others in this area make in the same position. I was in the lower quarter, which gave me the ammo I needed to help get me what I wanted.
That, along with a summary of the advances I've helped to make in the department.
I'm not really a confrontation type of person, so I put it all down on a sheet of paper in a professional looking letter, slipped it under the boss's door last Friday, and he caught up with me, said we'd talk as soon as we both got time and voila!!!
I GOT MY RAISE!

[jena4]

It might be a good idea also to gage how much you like the company you work for. I took a pay cut going from one job to the next because I hated where I was. It was worth the pay cut to work for a better company. If you find a company that you enjoy working for and a job that you truely like going to, then maybe pay shouldn't override all else. Of course you want to be paid what you're worth (who doesn't), but you could go somewhere that would pay you more, but you end up hating the job. You can always go for the amount you are hoping for and if they aren't willing to go for that, maybe you can come to a compromise. Good luck!

[Drorain]

like the company...hmm, well truth be told, i could take it or leave it. I like the people in my dept, I even like the pres (though he does micro manage), but I would be fine moving into a different industry. I would have liked to get into Amergent, a group that does non-profit work, but that didnt pan out =/, but who knows I could just send them an updated resume. there is good and there is bad, I am aiming for a variety of work though for when I do start my own studio.

[Logo-Mechanix]

It might be a good idea also to gage how much you like the company you work for. I took a pay cut going from one job to the next because I hated where I was. It was worth the pay cut to work for a better company. If you find a company that you enjoy working for and a job that you truely like going to, then maybe pay shouldn't override all else. Of course you want to be paid what you're worth (who doesn't), but you could go somewhere that would pay you more, but you end up hating the job. You can always go for the amount you are hoping for and if they aren't willing to go for that, maybe you can come to a compromise. Good luck!

It is funny how more money can make even an unbearable job a little more tolerable.:D

[idaho]

I'm worth $2,182,600!!! Pay up sucka!

[colonel5]

If some of you recall i did basically the same thing this past January. I was able to work myself a $9000/yr raise. The main things to do this are...

1) show that you are worth a little more than their investment in to you. Small Business is almost 100% about short term ROI (return on investment) so if you're doing things that are important to the company and meeting or beating your deadlines and ready to keep forging ahead in the company than you are justified in asking for your raise

2) make sure they know you have ambitions outside of the workplace whether it's real estate, investements, travel, funding some kind of project that's close to you. Them seeing that you're looking to move forward helps them think forward and be ok with giving you more money

3) be appreciative of the opportunity they've given you and be forward thinking with your talk concerning you and the company.

4) Put it all in a letter and let them simmer on it for a few days.

5) in the letter make sure you spell out exactly what you think you're worth (don't be afraid to overshoot just a tad (so you could say $42k) but know your bottom line. For instance, I gave them a salary i would like to be paid, and told myself if they are willing to meet me half way than I will stick with them. Well they met me half way, I countered, they countered back and now I have a job where I don't have to work much overtime and am making more than I would have settled at.

Chances are though, being a small business, they might not have it in the budget to pay you what you're worth. if not, rather than torchering yourself trying to stay for a few grand a year less than you'd be able to settle at, just move on. Feel free to PM me if you have other questions.

I put about 2 months of thought & research into it, went through 6 rough drafts on my letter, and ran it past a good half dozen people that either a) are business owners themselves or b) have been in the working world for 30+ years.

Good luck!

[jena4]

I always try to throw in the "money doesn't buy happiness" thing in there. Although...sometimes it does. :)

[Drorain]

oh I know that Jena, but I know at my income level now, up here in boston...well I can barely live.

The old cliche 'paying your dues' though true, only goes so far

[guyinsf]

Just remember that whatever salary you propose, most companies will try to offer less (because they want to save money), so make sure you give them a number that is probably 5K more than what you think you should deserve so if they offer less (which they will most likely) you will still have some "room" to work with so by the time both sides settle on a figure, you'll end up with something you could live with, literally. Do not be afraid to do that cuz I don't think you will lose your job fo merely proposing a high salary for yourself. Maybe 42K is good, I'm in SF and Boston is probably similiar in salaries to your city. It's nice to use standards out there, but think of what you're worth as an individual to the company and value your own skills and talents as a designer to the point of not being afraid to ask for what you're really worth.