Graffiti - What do you think?

[urstwile]

Well, I just watched a very interesting movie called Style Wars, which is about graffiti art in the late 70's/early 80's on the NYC subways.

I have mixed feelings about graffiti. One the one hand, I think some of it is very cool stuff, and I didn't really mind the stuff that was on the outside of the trains, although I didn't always like it from a personal aesthetic viewpoint, as opposed to the assault on my senses viewpoint.

The stuff on the inside of the trains, however, often came across as just a lot of insane ramblings, and yes, defacement, and although I mostly tuned it out, I can see how some would find it just a random defacing of public and private property. I don't care for it on public monuments, either.

There's a beautiful collection of murals here in San Diego in the Barrio Logan area, which probably started off as graffiti, and then became more formalized and accepted over time.

So I was curious to hear what you GDF'ers had to say about it. There's a web site you can look at, if you're unfamiliar with what I'm talking about. Style Wars (http://www.stylewars.com/)

By the way, I wasn't sure about where to post this, so if this isn't felt to be the right place, mods feel free to move it! :)

[ecsyle]

I'm a disgruntled teen krylon bomber :)

At least I was. I <3 graffiti :)

[urstwile]

Have you seen the movie, ecsyle? If not, I'd highly recommend it. :)

[nyc_skater]

I like stencil graffiti myself.

[urstwile]

Not sure what that is, skater. Got any examples?

[nyc_skater]

It's a whole nother movement of graffiti where the person usually makes intricate stencils and goes around town hitting up walls.

http://www.stencilgraffiti.com/


or on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0500283427/sr=8-2/qid=1151878832/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-7374547-5123033?ie=UTF8)

[urstwile]

Is that person who used to do the silhouettes on the side of buildings still around? NYC, by the way, I totally blanked, I was just in NYC for a visit, should have tried to hit you up for a get together! I'm from there originally.

[nyc_skater]

You most likely mean Shepard Fairey, he did the Andre the Giant stencils...he was one of the starters I think.

yeah, but I'm in CT right now at home with the folks, I was in a car accident, some dumb ass drunk driver hit me and now i'm recouperating :)

[urstwile]

Ouch! Sorry to hear about that.

I don't think it was Shepard Fairey, the Obey guy. This was way way back, in the mid-80's. You'd be walking along and there'd be a life-sized stencil of a person on just a random wall, usually like an alley wall or parking lot wall, something like that, usually fairly unobtrusive, and if you weren't paying attention, you probably wouldn't even see it.

I think Shepard Fairey was much later than that.

Get well soon!

[ecsyle]

I have seen bits and peices of style wars.

[CamarotaDesign]

I like stencil graffiti myself.

I dig stencil graffiti too, especially ones with a good social message. Also interesting other types of graffiti. I'm not a big fan of ugly tags though.

Banksy is a pretty awesome stencil graffiti artist from London.
Heres the link if you want to check his stuff out:

Banksy Gallery (http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/Banksy/Banksy_photos_thumb_007.htm)

[nyc_skater]

I dig stencil graffiti too, especially ones with a good social message. Also interesting other types of graffiti. I'm not a big fan of ugly tags though.

Banksy is a pretty awesome stencil graffiti artist from London.
Heres the link if you want to check his stuff out:

Banksy Gallery (http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/Banksy/Banksy_photos_thumb_007.htm)

Yeah, I've seen some of his stuff online, he's huge over there right?

That's the same reason i like it too, the message. I'm not from an urban background where a lot of graffiti art took it's start from so I never found myself connecting with it other than it looked cool, but the stencil art seems like it has so many avenues to go down.

[CamarotaDesign]

Yeah, I've seen some of his stuff online, he's huge over there right?

That's the same reason i like it too, the message. I'm not from an urban background where a lot of graffiti art took it's start from so I never found myself connecting with it other than it looked cool, but the stencil art seems like it has so many avenues to go down.

I guess I can understand that there is a struggle that goes into the art, and I really dig the creativity of the design, but Its not where I come from either.

Your totally right about stencil graffiti. It definately has many avenues. It creates an impacting way to reproduce a message over and over. Someone smart enough could utilize it for some awesome social commentary.

I had an idea for stencils that could be painted in crummy neighborhoods that say things like "Your tax dollars to fix this went into some rich white guy's pocket" or "The cops that normally keep this street safe have been cut back for tax breaks to help spur business growth in a better part of town" stuff like that. Of course, then I'd have to actually live in those neighborhoods......

Ahh, I just had an idea. I could go into nice neighborhoods and paint stuff that says "Be thankful for this beautiful, decorative lamp post, the southside's are bulletproof"

And yeah, as far as I know, Banksy is a superstar in London, everyone knows about him.

[balou]

<<<<< I like banksy too. ;)

[PrintDriver]

i actually admire the big bold skillfully executed tags I've seen around Boston. But then the same artist goes and tags everything else in sight with plain black paint minitags. They should learn when to stop.

Stencil graffiti is lazy and usually boring. What I've seen of it anyway. <IMO>. I'd rather see a well executed tag.

Edit: until I saw Banksy's stuff. Now THAT is awesome work. Thanks for the link.

[urstwile]

I'm familiar with Banksy, and yes, he's huge. Does he also do the surreptitious hangings in art museums, or is that someone else?

Anyhoo, to get back a little bit to why I posted this as a thread, what I found myself pondering is the difference between subway cars and above ground buses being slathered in advertising, and that's okay, but for some reason, graffiti's not.

Granted, one is paid for and "authorized", the other is not, and doesn't even come from the same mindset, really, but what's intriguing is that in some of the "man in the street" interviews asking what people thought about it, they thought it was disgusting, abusive, an eyesore, etc.

What I found intriguing about all of this was that I wonder how the same people think about the prevalence of subway advertising and bus wraps. Is it the rule breaking that disturbs them or the visual overload that sometimes happens when you used to get onto a really tagged subway car?

[urstwile]

Stencil graffiti is lazy and usually boring. What I've seen of it anyway. <IMO>. I'd rather see a well executed tag.

Why lazy, might I ask? I have no clue how any of this stuff is done, really.

[PrintDriver]

See edit above. The stencil stuff I've seen around here doesn't even come close.

[urstwile]

So, I'm still curious why you think it's lazy (if you're referring to the stuff in your area). Got any pics?

[nyc_skater]

Urst, I think the relation between grafitti is similar to the fights i remember when skating when it wasn't accepted at all. I saw the buildings, obstacles and marble ledges as something to be put to use, performance art, found object art, a way to express myself and keep out of trouble. I'm guessing the graffiti artists just had to have a form of art for themselves, an outlet. And remember, grafitti also arose the same time in the early eighties when hip-hop, breakdancing etc was at it's peak, it was part of a bigger picture.

I flip through graffiti books now and see people going in new directions with it finally which personaly i think is long overdue. I mean there's guys out there who have some characters they stick to and that's it, no words, just funny cartoons.

As far as stencils, look up stencil art on youtube, you'll see some videos of some really intricate stuff and some really bad stuff.

[urstwile]

Cool, thanks for the info, NYC.

To me, when I watched the movie, well, I was living in NYC at the time, and one thing that struck me about the movie is how bad the city was at that time (late 70's through early 80's), and by bad, I don't mean baaad, as in cool, but bad as in sucky. Going back now, the subways are a dream (compared to my earlier memories), mostly air-conditioned, Harlem's a walk in the park, things are entirely different, it's almost like Starbucks has taken over the city (there's one right next to my old apartment building :eek: ), although it's still New York, and there's great stuff happening there as well.

City services were all verklempt back then in the late 70's, the subways really were a pit, and the graffiti artists seemed to be expressing something that went beyond the day to day grind of how bad the city was at that time. It was dangerous, Son of Sam was a recent memory, as was the budget crisis, a lot of stuff was just bad in New York at that time, and graffiti was a big bad boogie man that politicians could latch on to as a crisis in values.

And yet it spawned an entirely different culture and thinking about how people looked at the world. I mean, Keith Haring (not a big fan really, but he grew out of that) started as a graffiti artist. So did Basquiat. And I particularly, as I mentioned earlier, remember the weird stencil silhouettes on the sides of random buildings, in oddball neighborhoods. I shoulda checked to see if the one I remember first seeing, on 26th and 6th avenue, was still there on my last visit.

[urstwile]

By the way, NYC, you might like this, I posted this in a different thread. It's called Parkour:

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17800

[distruktor]

yeah urstwile he's the guy that did the hanging stuff up in museums, for all of you that like banksy you should get his book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844137864/sr=8-1/qid=1151907893/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9748934-8481410?ie=UTF8

its brilliant!

[panzer]

im from uk and never heard of banksy (untill now) ta for the link

[distruktor]

im from uk and never heard of banksy (untill now) ta for the link


banksy rules get the book get it, get it, get it, get it, get it!

[seamas]

I grew up 30 minutes or so from NYC and have lived in Western Queens for 5 years or so.
I remember the '70s and '80s subway cars very well.
The grafitti never really inspired me.
There were one or perhaps 2 innovators I suppose, but then a sea of immitators, wannabes and hacks completely blanketing every surface they could.

It was a complete eyesore, and one tag over another over another made the whole endeavor artless and crude.

It really had a psychological effect - and not a good one. Gave more of an impression of blight and filth in an already troubled environment.

There is also a malicious creulty in the act of the illegal grafitti artist, in that they choose to vandalise someone else's storefront. Something someone (usulally not a rich person) has staked much of their life upon.
It says that the store or homeowner should have no say on the apperance of their store or home.

There is an area of Queens where an artist studio warehouse is covered with (legal) graffit. It has a bit of the impression of the '70s and '80s where it is a jumble of tags covering tags. Some areas work, a lot don't.

Murals, on the otherhand are a different story, and while some are inspired by graffiti, there is often a more coherent composition, and a less anti-social message.

[CamarotaDesign]

Stencil graffiti is lazy and usually boring. What I've seen of it anyway. <IMO>. I'd rather see a well executed tag.

Edit: until I saw Banksy's stuff. Now THAT is awesome work. Thanks for the link.

I agree, most stencil graffiti I saw was crap till I saw banksy. His stuff looks great, is very creative, and packs a good message. I also really like the way stencil has the ability to be a good communication and sorta like a street branding tool because of the reproduction factor..... like a printing press.

I also want to answer Urstwile's question. I dont mind graffiti in most places. What I dont like, is to see someone that just tags up something with a piece of crap design that took them 1 minute to think up and scrawl and it looks ugly, just for the sake of marking a spot. To me its the equivalent to an animal pissing on things. That being said, I think someone that spends a lot of time and creativity to make their mark look good is creating art. I respect the time and creativity it goes into creating something that looks interesting to appealing. Where it is put is not really a big deal to me. I like to see good art anywhere.

[urstwile]

I also want to answer Urstwile's question. I dont mind graffiti in most places. What I dont like, is to see someone that just tags up something with a piece of crap design that took them 1 minute to think up and scrawl and it looks ugly, just for the sake of marking a spot. To me its the equivalent to an animal pissing on things. That being said, I think someone that spends a lot of time and creativity to make their mark look good is creating art. I respect the time and creativity it goes into creating something that looks interesting to appealing. Where it is put is not really a big deal to me. I like to see good art anywhere.

Thanks for crystallizing it for me Camarota, because I was having a hard time figuring out what my boundaries were, and you put your finger on it. I like the stuff that looks like thought and time and skill went into it, not just the random, hey I can scrawl my signature here, I'm so cool, aren't I?

[reuber1]

The only graffiti I see is what people throw on trains that pass through town. Until they start tagging corn fields, I'm probably out of luck.

[Navian]

The only graffiti I see is what people throw on trains that pass through town. Until they start tagging corn fields, I'm probably out of luck.

Yeah, but the aliens tag the corn fields anyways, via Crop circles.

[urstwile]

Yeah, but the aliens tag the corn fields anyways, via Crop circles.

I swear I was almost gonna say that! GMTA I guess, Navian. :D

[reuber1]

The only thing the aliens tag is the anus of local Cletus the slack jawed yokel.