letterhead/envelope question

[ishotharold]

Ok, simple question about industry standards.. I got thrust into a design position, I'm a photographer at heart, so while my boss likes my eye for design, my knowledge of prepareing files for print in limited. Obviously best idea is contact printer, I dont have contact info and boss is gone, so exact bleeds may need to be fixed later... enough rambling...

We are doing letterheads and envelopes for each sport. I have designed several of these and they all have images or elements extending all the way to the edge of the canvas. Is it standard to print letterheads and envelopes all the way to the edge like that or do I need to rethink design on these?

[jimking]

1/8 of a bleed beyond the paste board will do. If your envelopes have bleed, they may have to be converted. What programs are you using for design?

[ishotharold]

photoshop CS2 for everything, not ideal I know, but like I said I'm a photo guy and most of our work is very image intensive so it works.

[jimking]

Also, if you're going to an offset printer, you should work in CMYK not RGB.

[ishotharold]

yea, everything is in cymk, sounds like I should be ok on this stuff then. Thanks.

[Neuro]

Basically bleeds cost more money and that's why a lot of people avoid it. If your budget allows for it then I don't think you should have any issue. 1/8" is a good standard. It's what we use where I work. I definitely would contact the printer right before you are ready to send the file, after the boss gets back with some contact info. That way you can keep things flowing.

[morea]

check with your printer on those bleeds... the kind of press we ran had grippers that pulled the envelope through the press, so we could not print full bleeds in CMYK because there was no place for the grippers to grab onto.

[jimking]

The envelopes can be a trick when bleeds are involved. There is a press that will print color off the edge of an envelope. Not many do. In 34 years in printing I've never seen this press, but it is out there somewhere. If you insist on bleeds on the envelope the printer can cut back the bleed inside the pasteboard a 1/16" but it doesn't look good. Otherwise you'll have to have the envelopes converted. that's when the printer prints your image on a flat sheet. The sheets are sent out to be scored, glue applied and then folded into a envelope.

[ishotharold]

I'm holding off on the envelopes untill my boss gets some info from the printer. My guess is our departments too cheap to do it right (I love div III..) so it prbly means we'll look at feathering the edges on some and reworking the others all together. Heres an example of why I really want bleeds.

http://staswickphoto.smugmug.com/photos/79476744-O.jpg

If any one else has creative ways to deal with this envelope let me know (we are printing for 9 sports so track&field has simmiler bleeds, in theroy the others could be fixed easier, but they get boring and repetitive when teh whole cutout has to fit on the envelope.)

[jimking]

That has got conversion written all over it. Ghosted edges may do the trick.

[ishotharold]

how much more is conversion gonna run us? double? triple? more?

[jimking]

I've never estimated a job. Someone out there who's had their envelopes converted will chime in today or tomorrow and give you an idea. Also, your printer will know.

[printmonger]

ishotharold,
jimking is right! The cost of doing bleeds on envelops is astronomical.

One time, I was asked by a client to include this in the quote, and when the estimate returned they almost vomitted, knowing they would have to talk with their boss about their brilliant idea. Fortunately, I had also asked for no-bleeds on the envelope and, I think, saved the client and increased our credibility. The bleed estimate was about 3.5 times the cost of not having bleeds. This is why we go with ghosted edges on envelopes IF called for... and that's exactly what I would do in your case.

Here are a couple of action steps:
1. Call your printer as soon as you can and ask about margins and ghosting/feathering the edges.
2. Call the USPS to ensure your envelops comform to their standards. Your design MAY interfere with their barcoding. Usually, they will be more than happy to see your comp [from above] and make suggestions for conformity. They're also very willing to do this for direct mail.
3. Learn CS as soon as you can, cuz photoshop is okay for this, but my experience says that InDesign would be a much better fit. Get Adobe InDesign Classroom in a Book and then set all nine letterhead's [one file] and envelopes [another file] at once. The "Classroom in a Book" series are very fast reads and really make a difference in understanding the capabilities of the software.
4. Write back and tell us how it all goes :)

I hope that helps.... L8'r

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

You may also want to contact a Mailpiece Design Analyst (http://pe.usps.gov/mpdesign/mpdfr_mda_intro.asp) in your area about the envelope design. The photo image would need to be light enough that the USPS bar code can be laid down on top of the photo and be readable by their scanners.

- J.

[Lonepine]

Sweet advice, Jeff. I never knew there was such a thing as a Mailpiece Design Analyst. Is there a charge for using there service on projects?

[Kool]

You could print this on a Halm Jet envelope press no problem, they don't use grippers. Make sure you take it to an envelope specialty print house that has one. There might be a small bump in price due to the full face nature of the print but it won't be huge.

[printmonger]

I don't think there's any charge at all for the Mailpiece Design Analyst.

[Vikia]

You could print this on a Halm Jet envelope press no problem, they don't use grippers. Make sure you take it to an envelope specialty print house that has one. There might be a small bump in price due to the full face nature of the print but it won't be huge. I was just going to offer the same advice. I have printed envelopes with bleeds and 2 sided on a Halm Jet press and the came out great. Check and see if your printer has this press.
If not, email me, I know of a couple.

[printmonger]

Vikia,
In your experiences, how do the costs of the Halm Jet compare to traditional no-bleed print for envelopes?

[ishotharold]

Thanks for the responses guys, our SID is at a confrence all week so I'm working on our other pieces for now, hopefully we can find a way to work it all out, I will post again when I find ome solutions. As for InDesign its on my "to do" list, but it probably wont happen thsi year, we redo all of this next summer and I will likely use indeisgn for that, photoshop can do most anything we need, but I know its not the best too for layout. fortunetly almost everything we are doing is rater based (blessing and curse, but our branding is largely player cutouts from images I have taken) so photoshop has some powerful options in balanceing color/levels/etc. I wish I had the whole CS because it seems a preaty integrated system between the programs, ecspecliy with bridge out now. Thanks again.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

Sweet advice, Jeff. I never knew there was such a thing as a Mailpiece Design Analyst. Is there a charge for using there service on projects?

No charge - and over the years many of my clients have requested signed approval from a MDA prior to going to press.

- J.