Rough for t-shirt design

[Logo-Mechanix]

Any thoughts on this pencil rough for a t-shirt design I am doing for a client. All the elements were requested by the client, as well as the old english font (which I am not crazy about) and the stars. It will be done in only one color, a dark print on a light shirt.

[SnowAngel]

What I'm liking: I'm lovin' the eagle...gorgeous rendering. Good job!

What's not: There's something rather unsettling to me about those snakes. Not the artwork, it's good...but how they are placed. Like it's an attack. Perhaps just one elaborate snake swirling around the bottle? If it's trying to mimick a crest (like the lion and the unicorn type idea), I'd play around with it a bit.

Great start though! I really like your renderings. :)

[Logo-Mechanix]

It's funny you mention that, because the first sketch I did before this stage had 2 snakes intertwined around the bottle but for some reason I wasn't liking it that way. Maybe I will work those snakes up to this stage and drop them in there. I think the whole attacking is a guy thing and this is for a guy and I am a guy (at least last time I checked). Interesting though that you said that.

[SnowAngel]

Very. Now, being a pub-crawler myself, (Well, when I was young enough to do so without feeling it for the next week...) it was about the bottle and it's cherished contents. For God's sake, don't spill! lol And, hey, hands off my drink! :D

It looks like the eagle is coming in, eyes full on that blessed bottle, going in for the sweep on that whiskey there. Now, if those snakes own that bottle it could be portrayed as looking to protect the bottle instead of attacking each other. Blessed bottle protection!

Ooo. That, to me, says 'Pub Lord'. It's an idea from another perspective. ;)

[Logo-Mechanix]

I like that perspective. I don't pub crawl anymore either, too hard to recover. Oh and thanks for the compliment about the renderings (how rude of me).

[SnowAngel]

Naw, no mention! :) You're welcome!

[SharkFinStudios]

Great look! I was going to say exactly what SnowAngel did... love the Eagle, but the 2 snakes looks too 'posed'. One snake would rock if it had a sinister look wrapped around the bottle staring out at the viewer.

I think the text can work great, too. I can't wait to see any updates and the finished shirt.

Well done, Logo-Mechanix!

[CamarotaDesign]

Are you going to be doing the hand drawn artwork portion in a vector graphics style? or scanned in as is? I think the rendering for them is great, I also like the eagle. But Im getting just too much conflict between computer generated elements and the hand drawn. Also, Im not sure I like the 3D stars, just plain would be better IMO. Also Bone Thugs N Harmony (http://www.smackbomb.com/famousfonts/fonts/bonethugsnharmony.html) font might work better but maybe not. I do think you could make an old english font work with this though.Hope that gives you a few ideas, looking forward to seeing the progression of the design.

[SnowAngel]

Oooo. What a great font. *bookmarked it*

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thanks for the comments all. To answer some of your questions, if I was given carte blanche on this I would have definitely gone with one snake staring out but the idea the client sketched out had 2 snakes and he was pretty specific about it same with the stars. The client had said military stars and we do alot of military contracts at my full time and the stars I used are what the military genrally uses. The final art will be all vector Camarota and I will come back and check that link you posted when I get home, we are having some difficulty with our firewall at work and it is blocking almost everything (except the GDF god forbid). I am going to try the 2 snakes wrapped around the bottle and facing each other like Snowangel suggested this way it will be keeping with what the client originally requested. Thanks again all, I realy appreciate the time.

[cj2a]

I agree that wrapping the snakes would help...there is a strange negative space they're creating right now...to my eye anyway.

[Danger_Mouse]

Is this being screen printed or sublimated onto the tshirt?

You may have some issue with the rendering if screenprinted. Good luck!

[Logo-Mechanix]

It will be screenprinted, although it will be redrawn as vector art for the process. It should be no problem as I have done many screen printed jobs and never had an issue. I would have loved to have done this in color but the clients customer only wants a single color, probobly due to cost.

[Danger_Mouse]

ok cool, thought you were sending the sketch to print. Will be nice to see the finished product (too bad not in color).

[vtwin_gary]

it looks very tattooish (maybe because i working for a tattoo artist right now)
if that is the intention i would rework the banners. look at some traditional tattoos they have alot of really cool banner work. i also think the snake or snakes should not be so semetric. i love what you have so far. keep us updated.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thats a great idea vtwin, I didn't even think about tattoos having alot of banner work. It was not my original intention to make it look tattooish but I saw that happening about half way through. Thats okay though, I think it will look pretty cool when it's finished. I am in the process of taking some of the suggestions about wrapping the snakes around the bottle now and will probobly have an updated rough up tommorow.

[vtwin_gary]

here is business card i did for a local tattoo shop this kind of banner work would look good. also you may want to do a version with some old school tattoo writing as an option to old english.


http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/3446/exographics0bt.jpg

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thats a great illustration and the banner is pretty cool. I need a banner with seperations though due to the fact the customer wants those stars in there and as for text he also wants the old english text so I am stuck in that regard. I am definitely going to research some tattoo banners though.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Well, I made some changes taking into account some of your suggections. I also changed the old english font to a similar but what I think is easier to read old english. Let me know what you guys think, your comments on the original version definitely made this one better.

[cornfed]

Looks really good! It would be a nice added touch to see the negative space that the snakes create have some meaning. Maybe having one snake coming from behind the bottle and one in front would give it more depth. They snakes seem very thick and the curve that they create where their necks are crooked could be more dramatic to create more movement and depth. I also think it would be cool to have the ribbon/banner actually twist to where pub lord is on the opposite side of the stars. The pub and lord sections could be black with white letters and it would kind of echo the movement of the eagles wings and set the name a little apart from everything else that is going on. Thats what popped in my head when I looked at it. I like it a lot. I think it is going to look great as a printed vector piece!

[cj2a]

Looking good. Here's what I would suggest now...take it for what it's worth...could you enlarge the booze bottle a bit, back the snakes off a bit (heads) to give the top of the bottle breathing room, maybe even lengthen bottle neck. Use cornfed's suggestion about one snake behind the bottle, then I would maybe move the banner up to where it is overlappng the bottom of the bottle, tying the elements together a bit, and base the snakes under the banner? Don't know for sure that would look better, but I'm just thinking of integrating all the elements a bit more. That's my 2 cents.

[Mynock]

I love the snakes crossing, but I think they should be behind the bottle top. The raddles should still be in front, but not were they cross.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thankd for the suugestions and your time guys. I sent the rough off to my client as he needed the rough today to show to his customer. I will see what he says and maybe rework some of your suggestions in the meantime. Thanks again.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

I like what you came up with after the suggestions, and yes the snakes should not steal the show...

[Logo-Mechanix]

Well i'm putting the finishing touches on this. There were a few changes from the last rough. I changed the snakes, used a different font and stars and added the crown as per the client.

[Red Kittie Kat]

That is very kewl LM ..... I sure like those snakes now ... sweet :D

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thanks Red, the only thing I was hating is those damn stars. But, give 'em what they want.

[Red Kittie Kat]

I don't mind the stars .... to be honest I didn't really notice them with the eagle and snakes being so striking .... thats right where my eye went ;)

Just beautiful :)

[reuber1]

I don't mean to be the roofy in the ale, but it seems sorta unbalanced to me. Not "designerly" unbalanced, if that makes any sense, but it just seems off but trying to be centered. I didn't read the other posts yet, but is the bottle supposed to be off at an angle? I feel like it should be dead on.

[tZ]

I'm going to agree with reuber.

You have what seems to be a dominatly symetrical design.

So i think the bottle should repeat that symetry.

You also have to think about the elements within which are dominatly flat in visual represntation. So by titlting the bottle I think it makes it stick out like a sore thumb since, your adding another obvious dimension to what seems to be a prodominatly flat desigin.

I want to make sure that when I sepcify the design as flat I mean not to imply a negative comment. Some may say well… the snakes and bird lack a realistic level of volume which makes them appear flat and it should look real. However. design vise you are communicating snakes, an eagle and a bottle to be just fine. So when I sau it flat itrs not a bad thing just an attribute I see.

I for one don't think design design is about what looks relastic or not. Its about what communicates and you have done that just fine here. So all and all definalty real nice job and progression- can't wait to see the final- on the shirt perhaps(?).

[CamarotaDesign]

I like the gritty bonesy look to it. Looks like the kind of shirt you wear to county jail and brawl in the drunk tank after getting arrested at the bar.... sweet.

I gotta agree with rueber. on that unbalanced look. Either more asymetrical, or more balanced, either would be fine.

The eagle kicks ass, the snakes are good too. Not really liking the crowns but, they arent killing the design either. Maybe you could make them in the same syle as the eagle, all black, with white used to accent the shading and lines and such, instead of the white outlined look currently going. I think the stars arent bad. Whats killing the banner at the bottom for me is the font. Font needs to be stronger and more masculine and macho. Think you oughtta go back to an old english font, also a thicker weight. Lookin good.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

*cat calls*

Looking great !

[Logo-Mechanix]

I agree with alot of the assesments mentioned, especially those damn crowns, unfortunately thats what the client wants. I also agree the old english font was working better but I digress, the client again. I will fix that bottle though and maybe change the crowns to all black with white accents, I like that suggestion. Don't worry TZ it was meant to be flat looking due to the fact it will be screen printed in one color, how I would have loved to have screened it with a few colors. There was something bothering me about and you guys found it I must have been looking at it too long but I think it was that bottle. Thanks guys I will get the changed version up at some point today.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Okay I fixed the bottle and that was what was definitely bothering me about it made a world of difference. I have to thank TZ and Reuber for pointing that out. I also reversed the crowns and that is working much better also. Thanks for all your input guys, now I have to send the proof of the finished design to the client, with a water mark and at a low resolution of course.

[reuber1]

Those crowns look badass now, and that's a good thing. :D

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thats funny, I thought the same thing as soon as I changed them. I was like yeeeaaahhhh, now were talkin'. I'm going to see if the client will send me a shirt, sometimes they do, I have a couple of shirts at home that I did designs for.

[Red Kittie Kat]

Those crowns look amazing now! ...... of course the bottle didn't bother me before .... but seeing it straight now does make a difference..... You did a great job any way you slice it LM :)

[Mynock]

The only thing it's missing is more cowbell.
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5167/morecowbellvc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thanks Red, I coul not figure out for the life of me what it was that was bothering me before but it was definitely the bottle. And changing the crowns made a huge difference for such a small part of the design. Although some of the detail will get lost when it's screened I could'nt help myself from doing it. Unfortunately Mynock I will have to wait until I get home to see what you posted, anything from imageshack is blocked here at work, damn firewall. Thanks all I really appreciate the help.

[Red Kittie Kat]

You are very welcome LM :)

...... and fyi ..... its a pic of uncle Sam..... point his finger at you and saying "I want more cowbell"

:D

[Eraser Nubbin]

The only thing it's missing is more cowbell.
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5167/morecowbellvc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Is that Christopher Walken?

[Red Kittie Kat]

I think so ...... after all .... he is the one who wanted "MORE COWBELL"


:D :D

[Mynock]

It is, I think someone made it after the rumors that he was going to run for president.

[CamarotaDesign]

thats gonna look good on a screened T-shirt.

Crowns - Looking good

Bottle - inside white lines are still a little unbalanced, but the outside dimensions are fine, looks almost perfect, you could get away with it if you have it.

Maybe you can make the font weight heavier before it gets printed on the T, and when the client says something be like "ohh yeah, uhh, dot gain, sorry couldnt do anything about it"

All in all pretty ass kickin. Mission accomplished

[Logo-Mechanix]

Thanks Camarota, yeah it's gonna look sweeeet on the t-shirt I hope he sends me one I might even knock a few bucks off the final price to get one. My only concern with making the font slightly heavier is filling in when it's screend. The design half of my brain says make it heavier, while the technical side says that will cause fill in. What do you think?