longevity of a logo for ME

[BrentonMailman]

<rip> Edit-> I have gone back to the drawing board. Dont need 100 people saying the same thing.>

Hey there

Im 15, and I know that Graphic Design is what I want to do with my life.
My parents run a cottage rental business, so I ended up making their website and logo about 3 years ago, the logo came first BTW.(www.upperclementscottages.ca (http://www.upperclementscottages.ca/))

So, I will be attending an art college when I graduate, and I assume I will work at a firm of some sort for quite a while during and after that process. After that, I plan on starting my own business. But until then, I will definitely be doing some odd stuff for people which I have already started doing.

So, my point; is this a good company name, or is it too played out? Are these good colors, or will they be over used in the near future? Is any of it salvageable?

I know I should know the answers to these questions, but its harder when your doing stuff for yourself. I have been working with this for quite some time, and Im getting quite frustrated.

should it stay, be revised, or go?

[eon.]

well first things first: what exactly is your business (or what will it be)? The logo has to go with the company; there has to be some kind of relation. The logo by itself is good but without knowing what it's representing, a thorough critique can't really be done IMO.

[BrentonMailman]

I would be offering complete "identity design" service; everything from the logo to the website, to the merchendise box, to the road sign, to the brochure, to the letterhead, etc, etc, etc.

Also, I feel I would be halping the clients identify what their business was and how they wanted to project themselves.

[BrentonMailman]

And some extra background on why I did the things I did.

I began the whole graphic design thing by being inspired, and I always do my best work when I am inspired by something, which can be difficult on deadlines when I scratch something at the last minute because I hate it and have found new inspiration. So thats where the word 'inspire' came from, it means a lot to me, but its been used MANY times before. And I may be tiring of it?

The colors are simply because I liked them, they are completely negotiable.

The little flow of bubble things coming from the 'i' are kind of visualy representing the way I see a truely inspired project take off. It has a starting point and then it will go off in a controlled direction (hence the circle).

The slogan 'identify yourself' is something I plan on using no matter what name I end up with. The reason being that when you have a business, your basically invisible, other than your physical location which could just blend into the rest of the landscape.

Companies NEED graphic design. They need ATTRACTIVE websites, GOOD logos, and DIFFERENT looking packedging so it too doesnt blend in. And when a company gets itself some quality material, theyre indentifying that theyre in the market, identifying themselves from their competetors, and, if they choose me, identifying themselves, TO themselves, furthering their own knoweledge of what type of business theyre running.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

I do think your image is a nice design - but do wonder if it best conveys what you hope to achieve. Besides, the name has been used a lot - just do a Google search of "inspire design."

I do think colors tend to be much more trendy than design elements. The orange and green-ish combo is another very over-done treatment of the past few years. The last two years I've walked in the rooms to judge the annual Summit Creative Awards (http://www.summitawards.com/) to a sea of orange and greens. I'm actually looking forward to the next great color trend in design - whatever it may be.

I do appreciate the fact that age 15 you are focused on a design career - and that you are able to put a good design out for review with well thought out justifications, process descriptions and questions. Good luck with your future career!

- J.

[BrentonMailman]

YAY! I was really bracing myself, so thanks for the kindness.

I am really getting annoyed with the colors, and that font, also is getting popular, here at least.

And I have done Google searches, TONS, and thats what scares me, I was just too attached at the beginning to really think about the fact that that name has a bad rep and is over used.

I read once from a Graphic Designer that 'you have to OWN a word in the public's mind' meaning it has to be ORIGIONAL, something the target audience will remember, and something the audience CAN remember. Also, must be easily associatable with whatever its representing.

so I guess I have a summer of finding just the right thing for me

[BrentonMailman]

I REALLY love the whole brown, blue, off white thing that seems to be coming in, but again, ITS GONNA BE SO POPULAR ! :"(

grr, i need to sleep on this

[tZ]

This is isn't to be harsh or anything but, maybe you should be more concerned with learning how to design before worrying about a busness identity.

Furthermore, if you plan on going to college they could care less if you know how to create production pieces or not. Administrators major concerns on the entry level high school graduate is drwaing- the ability to understand spacial relationships and proportions.

Its nice and all you have begun to adventure into the software and all but, to be honest non of this matters much to administrators. They would rather see drawings then graphic design work. Cause they figure… you are going to college to learn how to design- not becasue you allready know how to.

Just some friendly advice.

[distruktor]

wow for a 15yr old you sure have got your head screwed on, respect. I had no idea what i wanted to do when i was your age and was more concerened with girls, beer and skateboarding ;)

Anyway i quite like your logo its not 100% correct but its a good start id maybe look at the colours they dont really punch out of the white and like people have said the name has been around a bit. good start though.

dis

[Samakimoto Graphics]

Start:

- By figuring out what you want to call your business and why.At this stage, think very personally- by personally I mean think about the things that are close to you that inspire your creativity. Make a list (list it even if it does not make sense):funny phrases, heck even biblical parables or quotes will do, phrases with double meanings can be a good start (as long as you can tag a design orientation to them, or better yet make quick sketches of these things. Nothing need be perfect at this point as you are searching.

- By Sketching out ideas on paper (sketch always). As you sketch you pick your own brain.

- By narrowing down to the idea that visually relates to your idea of how you want to represent yourself, one that communicates what you are, how you communicate your ideas...

- make the final renderings digitally, and work on combining the image with the suitable type.

Designing for yourself is not easy, but possible...

All the best, and congrats on having decided early in life what you want to do.

[Cheggers]

Alright kidda,

i was same as u wen i left school 6 years ago, i always wanted to be a Designer, either Graphic or Product - but once University came calling, i couldn't do both so i opted for Graphic!

Ur well talented for a 15 year old, and i think your logo is cool, but like the others i'll ask what area of design are you heading? Plus, think carefully about the image you are trying to give out - because often you may opt for a pro - looking logo, but often some designers fall into the trap of having a 'Law Firm' logo (All clean text and fancy outlook), and their portfolio shows 'Punk' style design!!!

I think your heading in the right direction, it just needs a bit of personal tweaking - i.e play around with the style and colours of this logo, because it is merely impossible to come up with a final logo first time round - believe me! doing logos is quite a hard job, and wen it's for yourself, it becomes a real pain!

With the name 'Inspire Design' - it's quite a good name, but only you knows if you like the name for sure or not. if you've got mixed feelings, get some paper and scribble some name ideas down, thewn design logos for the names you like. On the other hand if you like the name - stick with it!

Good luck matey, hope everything works out for ya!

ps - looked at your website, you got skillz!!

[distruktor]

looked at your website, you got skillz!!

wheres the link to his site? i wanna look too :) i love lookin at other peoples stuff :D

[PrintDriver]

tZ has somewhat of a point. But I wouldn't go squashing your ideals. Keep on plugging at the software but do some serious research into entry requirements for the colleges you want to go to and focus on getting together a good portfolio of stuff they'll want to see. If you have a good High School art department, get one of them to advise you.

[panzer]

wow for a 15yr old you sure have got your head screwed on, respect. I had no idea what i wanted to do when i was your age and was more concerened with girls, beer and skateboarding :D

i still have no idea and im a grandad :)

[tZ]

I finally figured out what it reminds me of… the wonder bread logo.

[shadepics]

To be honest, i'd make the most of being 15. Before you have to start paying for everything! Obviously keep learning graphic design etc, but do things for your cv rather than going for a proper business at 15. I found a fair amount of people didn't like someone far younger than themselves giving them advice on brand image etc. Don't mean to downhearten ya, but thats my opinion. Good work btw though.

[Crimson]

I think that if a logo is good it works in Black and white first and then color enhances the piece. I tend to agree with Jeff that some of your thoughts might be a little over done and a bit cliche. You don't always have to be blunt about a design. All in all, you have a wonderful focus for a young age and I hope you keep the passion. It might be your key to greatness. . .

[BrentonMailman]

...but do some serious research into entry requirements for the colleges you want to go to and focus on getting together a good portfolio of stuff they'll want to see. If you have a good High School art department, get one of them to advise you.

I have done serious research, many hours of it, I know what they want, and this is not even close to something I would be submitting in my portfolio, this is just somthing to do while im waiting for college. College has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

My school art department SUCKS, the woman doesnt even know how to spell art, if you know what I mean.

So thanks for the kind comments, and I guess thanks for the slightly harsher ones, too; But I have decided that I really hate this logo, and that I can do better. It's the psychology of doing it for myself thats making this more difficult.

And, just so everyones clear. I AM NOT OUT TO MAKE A HUGE COMPANY HERE BEFORE I FINISH HIGH SCHOOL! All I want is a platform for me to do a small amount of work before I graduate.

So far, the few clients I have worked with didn't care about my age, and reccommended me to everyone. They understood that it looks good for me to be ambitious, and it saves them money because I am CHEAP, REALLY CHEAP. I have even volunteered myself out for stuff.

[PrintDriver]

They understood that it looks good for me to be ambitious, and it saves them money because I am CHEAP, REALLY CHEAP. I have even volunteered myself out for stuff.

^Now that is the scariest thing you've said.
Don't sell yourself and your profession-to-be short. Charge appropriate to your opinion of your skill and only volunteer for pro bono for a good cause like a non-profit, not a for-profit business. There is a difference between gaining experience and being taken advantage of.

[BrentonMailman]

I DO only volunteer for non-profit organizations. And Im not selling myself short. But you must realize that someone's not going to be paying a teenager thousands of dollars for a piece of work. Its good experience for me, I like working on things for OTHER people, and it helps me build a good base of refrences.

I realize the importance and cost of good design, but I don't think its an unfair deal for me.

It's getting kind of annoying to have to defend myself so much here.

Maybe I'l have to re-register with a new user name and NOT tell people my age so I can be taken more seriously.

[shadepics]

That's kinda my point really. However good you are, nobody will pay the full worth. Which is fair enough really, you aren't paying bills, probably didn't pay for the equipment (not saying its illegal) etc. I wouldnt re-register. The benefit of being very young and doing this is that you stand out more as having a lot of potential. The best way to increase your pay would probably be to have a large, quality portfolio.

good luck

[BrentonMailman]

thanks, but Im not LOOKING to increase my pay.

I was just saying that Im happy with what ever little people do pay. To be truthful, I would be doing just as much work on fake companies for practice, so working for real people gets my stuff out there, and gives me more inspiration for what I produce to be of a high quality.

[urstwile]

Maybe I'l have to re-register with a new user name and NOT tell people my age so I can be taken more seriously.

I think the fact that your thread has so many responses is an indication that people do in fact take you seriously, and are trying to offer you advice based on their own years of experience. Their responses might have a little to do with your age, just as a person with only one year of experience might stand to learn much from a person with ten years of experience.

No one's trying to discourage you here, it's wisdom that's being shared, for many no doubt through their own personal school of hard knocks.

[BrentonMailman]

This is just a frustrating summer for me, I've got a lot going on, and it looks to everyone (in real life, not on here) that nothing is going on, and so, I look lazy, and pathetic.

Part of all thats going on, is me, slowly screetching to a halt with progressing my skill level. Up until now, it's come really easy for me, but now, Im getting into the 'nitty-gritty' of what graphic design really is. Which takes TIME, and as the years go on, school is taking more time, im getting worse at it, and im hating it more and more. It leaves me with less time to work on my graphic stuff.

The limited work I do for others has me so emotionally messed up with all the strings attached that its driving me insane.

I also feel that If I want to start practicing harder, I have to decide between furthering my knoweledge of PHP, CSS, HTML, and learning Flash and Dreamweaver; or concentrating on design.

Its far less emotionally involved to work on pracitce, fake companies, but that just feels dumb. And working on something for myself brings up all my in-securities about what people think of me.

I guess im just not taking the harsh, real-world knoweledge very well. I expected this place to be nothing but rainbows and butterflies, "Hundrends of people, actually WANTING to talk about the stuff that makes me excited!?!?!!! what could be better?"

I just need to BUCK up, remember that if even ONE person on here doesnt like somethiing, then theres less of a chance that the whole rest of the world will like it.

wow. RANT! sorry for seeming un-grateful for the doses of reality.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

How about you try finding a mentor in this field and shadow them, get to know more about what the industry entails. That will keep you busy and gain you some knowledge.

Hey! Who said this place is not fun and butterflies!? Have you checked out the other posts? Hmmmm?

If I didn't take you seriously, I wouldn't have posted any response, remember critisim makes you grow...

[urstwile]

I just need to BUCK up, remember that if even ONE person on here doesnt like somethiing, then theres less of a chance that the whole rest of the world will like it.

wow. RANT! sorry for seeming un-grateful for the doses of reality.

BrentonMailman,

First off, read Samakimoto's post (right above mine) and take a deep breath.

Look, honey (yeah I'm a big sister type so there :p ) you're very young, you've clearly got talent, some great thoughts and focus about what you want to do. That's the big first step, in my opinion.

To get frustrated so early because something you posted on a forum didn't get the raves you wanted, well, in about ten years, you're going to be experiencing that in much more severe levels. Here, what we do is try to guide you on the path to what you want. Since none of us here are planning on hiring you (outside of the classifieds section), what you can get here is us seeing your work grow, and we can nurture you from there.

Despite what may seem like harsh criticism to you, what it really is is that we all want you to SUCCEED! Which I think you will...you've got a great head on your shoulders about some of this stuff, but there's stuff you need to learn.

Come back, frequently, learn, contribute, showcase, experiment, etc. This is a good place to be.

That's all I can really say, I hope you don't get discouraged, I know, it's a tough field, but I suspect that you will do well, if you listen to your elders. :p

But no, seriously, don't let a few critiques that didn't go the way you wanted them discourage you from continuing to try. This is a great place to show your stuff and hear what other people have to say about it. And the cool thing is, we're not your mom, so we're not necessarily nice about it, but we're always looking after your best interests. Seriously.

You have talent, don't let a few discouraging and/or frank words let you stray from that path.

[shadepics]

Don't worry about things taking time, you've got years! Also I don't think it was that people didn't like it, more nitpicking to make it that bit better, because as it stands it's pretty good really. Keep up the good work, just enjoy it and don't expect everthing to happen overnight.

[BrentonMailman]

Yeah, I've calmed down now. I REALLY hate the whole logo now, so its no longer the issue. I have totally gotten over this now, and you are all making me feel way better. (I always wished I had a big sister by the way, urtswile)

Now Im ready to be patient, understanding, and calm.

thanks all.

Maybe i'll make a new post later on with a few of my new ideas...

[chris_bcn]

I think one of the problems that people on here have (i.e. people who do it for a living) is that the value of the profession is often driven down by people prepared to do work for virtually nothing - the whole - "My 15yr old nephew knows all about this graphic / web design stuff - he'll do it for $50 - how can you charge $3000?" syndrome. It's not a reflection on you.

You seem passionate and eager to learn - which is great. Taking critisism is something you'll have to endure you're whole career - it won't ever let up. I think you'll do well - you have the desire, and you have a good base skillset - kepp playing about, keep experimenting and youll get there

[BrentonMailman]

thank you, chris

[CamarotaDesign]

My company had a web design company do their website just before I was hired. It was crap, the company used "interns" and "contract" designers. I can tell you right now, you're probably just as good as a few of the "contractors" based on what I see in the upper clements website. (I havent seen your logo, but would like to see more of your work if you have any available) We were charged in the upper hundreds $$ figure including the domain and setting up a hosting plan (which he will be charging monthly for) so, go figure.

The guy is a very good salesman. What you gotta do, is have some good pieces in your portfolio, and when someone asks you for work, act like you are doing them a favor, not the other way around. (but be kind about it) If you act like you are just happy for the work, then they will take advantage of you. The fact is, you have better design skills than the majority of the general population. Dont compare yourselves to other designers, when you do that, you'll feel like you deserve less than you do.

If you feel like you need to do more work before getting paid a professional rate, do trade. Trade a website design for a free weekend at the cottages..... and take a chick. Then you might be gettin some sex outta your design skills and thats not a bad trade-off.

[tZ]

As a personal accomplishment this logo/any design may be greast achivement for you. However, when you post something for critique you must not forget that most of us try to give an unbias assesment. Unbias negates how old you are which relates to the level of accomplishment this actually is for someone who is so young. So just remember that for here on out.

Also, when I say unbias that includes the idea of what works design wise vs. what I actually like. Don't get the two confusssed. I may personally like your logo or design. That doesn't negate the fact that it may be poor design (allthough I do think my taste is on the positive side,lol). Just try to remember when you critique it is all about the rules, standards and waht works in a design sense- not whether I like you design or not.

If your asking why I and many others choose to critique then ask yourself does one really care what I or me thinks looks cool?- The obvious answer is no. I am one out of a million. So instead of basing sucess on my opinion- something very subjective it is increasingly more benifential to access it based on something universal- design.

You can't get the two confussed. Just becasue something looks cool doesn't mean itas good [/b]design[/b]. That may not make all that much sense to you right now (I know when I was 15 I didn't know/care,lol) but, hopefully you get some kind of idea as to what I am saying.

Critiques are critiques for a reason. To help you improve. I'm generally not one to sugurcoat anything. Some are but, thats just not me. I and many others look at work through the eyes of design- not what I like or not.

With that said, so now that you have identified the flaws in your progress learn from it. Even if you leave this logo alone take the advce we give you and apply it to all your projects in the future. Most of the time many on here offer not only advice directed towards the posted pices(s) but advice that can be "univeral" in its own way-design. Which can then be applied to anything design related.

Now about the age thing. I'm generally not one to factor someones age or anything into my critiques. However, for 15 this is quite a nice accomplishment. Does that mean though you should be selling yourself?

Well… in my opinion no. However, thats an opinion.

However, I look back to a wonderfull analogy I read on another forum in these instances. Mcdonalds may not be the best food around but, it exist for a purpose and atarget market. When copared to some place like olive garden it has much to be desired. I most likly screwed that whole thing up but, the idea is that even though you sell yourself I'm not worried that yopur going to be "bringing" down the entire industry like some. Obviosly if people want cheap design then that is what they are going to get regardless of what i say or do- from someone eneducated and without much expiereice. However, if they are looking for something solid then they will go for the opposite. So its the same thing with the food comparision- if someone just wants some quick food they will go to Mcdonalds but, if they want a nice meal they will vouch for som place like olive garden in comparsion. So the fact that you sell yourself doesn't worry me and/or factor into any comments I made thus yet(besides for the obvious one above addressing your age).

I do think though it hurts you in the end without a full proper education first- why?

Well… if you don't know the rules and standards asscoiated with design then you will basing it on your subjective opinion of what looks good in compination of what the client likes. We all know that clients know generally jack sqat about design- so where does that leave you as a designer? It leaves you with two opinions based purly on the aesthetics of your and your clients personal taste.

So I for one just personally think your better off learning doing personal projects rather then selling your self for cheap. Some may say to be that when you have a client it gives you good practice with a real world sitiuation- which is true. However, who are you to judge sucessfull design when you don't even know it yourself? That is the idea behind client- jusding what works(design) vs. what they like. Not judging what you like(the designer) and what they like- that is all subjective. Looking at whether it communicates or not is key and if it doesn't finding ways to ammend it to the clients personal taste in combination with design practice. Design isn't just knowing the adobe suite- its about alot more. Knowing the adobe suite accounts for about 20 percent not even. Technology is allways changing, but design stays consistent throughout. That is one major reason software knowledge means very little in true retrospect.

So yeah… I think now that I have gone on a long enough rant I'm done,lol.

[shadepics]

Marathon post! Great advice tZ

[CamarotaDesign]

only 15? oh crap, I thought this was the guy that was 18. In that case, no weekend at the cottages for you, sonny.

btw another nice post tZ, as usual. The Mcdonalds analogy is a 100% bullseye. That needs to be put in books.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

That's the long of it by tZ.

[BrentonMailman]

lol, yes, Camarota, no weekend for me, firstly, im 15, secondly, I LIVE THERE, lol (you must not have seen the place where I said "My parents run a cottage rental business..." )
My parents get me for free obviously, and I don't wanna hear ANY crap on that, because its gonna stay that way until they dont run it any more :D

WOW, thank you so much tz. I was actually going to ask you exactly what you had been hinting about in your previous comments. THANK YOU!!!!! I really understand much more now. I realize that I may not be fully qualified as far as true 'design' is concerned, I dont claim to be. But what you have to realize is that the place I live in, is ... well, the 'country', and its full of small businesses and people who dont know anything about what THEY even do for a living, lol.

FOR EXAMPLE www.valleyweb.com/mountaintop (http://www.valleyweb.com/mountaintop) be prepared...

THIS is the kind of thing I deal with. They approach me and say they need a re-design. As you can see, one needn't be anyone of true greatness to improove a site like this! So, I think its working for me right now. It gets my foot in the door. If I was doing nothing in this feild, I would kill myself, and thats just not an option. :D

(*I have not done any work for the above link, im just usinh them as an example as to what the local businesses call a website)

Not to mention, I really don't do all that much as of yet, and it probably won't get to be anything of size until I move to the city for college. And then, Im not going to do this during that period, so we're all safe.

So, thank you tz, not I understand MUCH more fully where people are coming from. And I gladly eccept all the criticizm in the world now, because I know its ALL TRUE and I know I need to learn it some time.

[urstwile]

lol, yes, Camarota, no weekend for me, firstly, im 15, secondly, I LIVE THERE, lol (you must not have seen the place where I said "My parents run a cottage rental business..." )
My parents get me for free obviously, and I don't wanna hear ANY crap on that, because its gonna stay that way until they dont run it any more :D
Well, yeah, you kinda have to do stuff for your parents, that's an obvious exception. :D

FOR EXAMPLE www.valleyweb.com/mountaintop (http://www.valleyweb.com/mountaintop) be prepared...
:eek:

[tZ]

^ I was thinking the same

Did you look at the code?- makes me cringe,lol

However, thats off topic so i should shut up,lol.

[BrentonMailman]

I can't really comment on the code, its not my strong suit either, but the whole thing is... ugh. *shiver*

*walks away in disgust*

[urstwile]

I can't really comment on the code, its not my strong suit either, but the whole thing is... ugh. *shiver*

*walks away in disgust*

>>>big sister hands over a piece of candy and a blankie. :D There, there, it'll be okay.

[BrentonMailman]

:p lol thanks.

[1ooScreamingTrees]

Oh come on - that web design is PHENOMINAL.

RAINBOW TEXT GUYS'n'GALS. Rainbow = good. Every single time.

[shadepics]

It just didn't flash enough for me. More flashing text please and/or flashing background.

[urstwile]

Oh come on - that web design is PHENOMINAL.

RAINBOW TEXT GUYS'n'GALS. Rainbow = good. Every single time.

Don't forget to emboss it!

[Exodus]

*I think I threw up a little in my mouth when I checked that site out* I do not do web design so I generally do not comment on said topic but... d@mn! That's nasty!

[reuber1]

FOR EXAMPLE www.valleyweb.com/mountaintop (http://www.valleyweb.com/mountaintop) be prepared...

THIS is the kind of thing I deal with. They approach me and say they need a re-design. As you can see, one needn't be anyone of true greatness to improove a site like this! My EYES!!! THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!!!!