practice logo

[BrentonMailman]

Hellow again.

Okay, so, I'm bored this summer, and im stuck as far as doing any work on myself, so I thought i'd make up a fake company and play with a logo... maybe even go further.

So, I was in my pool, and I thought that it would be cool to do work for an underwater speaker company. So I made up a name, and a slogan.

Here it is. I'm ready for ANY criticism

http://www.upperclementscottages.ca/audiacrit.gif

(my idea for the name came from the words 'audio' and 'aqua' <the 2 important descriptive words for the ficticious company.)

Specifically, is it too boring?

[cornfed]

I don't think it's boring. I think the water aspect may come through better if your arches had ripples.

[BrentonMailman]

okay, im not sure exactly how you mean.

the idea is that the arches are both the ripples in the water, and soundwaves.

(oh god, that sounded lame)

[BrentonMailman]

;) thank you BTW

[cornfed]

But if water were experiencing a vibration, then it wouldn't make a perfect ring like that. It would have more curves within each individual ripple. Here's a visual example of what I mean. http://superstruny.aspweb.cz/images/fyzika/casimir/casimir.gif

Assume that each wavelength is a different tone or vibration level. Each would produce a different sort of ripple based on the sound that it makes. Does that make sense? Kind of hard to explain what I mean in words, but it's all working out here in my head!

[patkennedy78]

First thought is Sound Waves and Water Waves. LOTS of room to play there. The logo you've created is kind of standard. Check out this page, it talks a lot about trends and shows great examples of unique logos.

http://www.logolounge.com/articles/default.asp?ArticleID=248

I've tried to do the fake company thing as well. It's tough. I think you should focus more on the company, their business, who they are, the what and why of them. Who are their customers, who is your audience, what message are they sending, where are they located, is the business for rich peoples pools, or audio experiments with dolphins, etc. Who is their competition, what are their logos like?

Pretend like this business contacted you and it's a real deal. Hope that helps.

[cornfed]

Exactly patkennedy. Brent, scroll down that page to "good drops" and look at logo #2. That's the kind of movement I'm talking about.

[1ooScreamingTrees]

I think the problem a lot of people have when designing logos for "fake companies" is that they envision a logo that would coincide with a company name, and then they begin molding the logo around the company name only. I'm not saying thats what happened in this instance, but let me elaborate.

You're making it far too easy on yourself by designing such an obvious logo. The purpose of these excercises is to grow as a designer - and if you would like to maximize the excercises potential, you're going to have to challenge yourself. Ask someone else for a company name, so you do not put any predisposed bias into your constantly designer-minded brain. Spend a very long time developing an idea of the company's existence before you even think of a potential logo.

Of course there are those times when you get a cool idea and just reaaallly have the urge to crank it out, but those tend to be more on the personal pleasure side of things as opposed to a growth excercise.

[BrentonMailman]

WOW thanks patkennedy! I had been thinking a little about that stuff, but it makes sense to actually write down everything that someone may want.

I can't believe that I never thought of that :)

That article is quite something, makes you focus on eache little part.

cornfed- im still not quite sure how I will incorperate the ripple lines into the logo, but I know exactly what you mean now. I'll keep working on that

The fake company thing IS hard, it's kind of like playing chess with yourself, you know ALL the moves, but you have to play the game, so someone's going to loose. Im hoping that this forum will help me in playing the role of the client with critique, so far its working!! :D

[BrentonMailman]

screaming trees,

I actually thought up the word first, I thought it was cool, and then I found a font in the same day (when just searching randomly) then, voila...

I do have to confess that this is a BIT personal pleasure... but I am interested enough that I'd like to morph it into more of a learning experience, by putting it on here and adapting to these ideas, much like I would have to do with a client.

[3N1GM4]

Though it is pretty generic logo design, it is a solid logo,

- It can be transferred into b&w easily
- It is easy to recognize
- its good enough it can be scaled down nicely

etc etc

i like it

[WrC]

When the logo is in b&w the waves or the lines seemed a bit too dominating, maybe thinner waves for more sophistication?

[3N1GM4]

When the logo is in b&w the waves or the lines seemed a bit too dominating, maybe thinner waves for more sophistication?

Good point, didnt really notice it at first, probably because i was looking at them to begin with, but its quite over powering over all

[tZ]

its generic.

its works though.

It all depends on how much you want to push.

I think the bommerang thing is overdone, but thats more so an opinion.

Are you comunicating anything to me?- not really.

However, do you want it to communicate the business it corresponds?

These are all little things you need think about when creating a logo.

The best logos are the ones that offer a new form of logic directed toward some attribute of the company in correspndance.

This really says nothing about anything. Yeah… I get the whole wave thing and speaker thing but, didn't see it untill I read it. In order to pull this off you would need to refine the idea more into an obvious speaker rather then an implied shape/form of a speaker. I mean… it could really be anything- a bowl, cup, who knows???.

The mark does not immddiatly communicate to me as a speaker.

So I would find it unsucessfull in a communicational aspect.

As for it working.

As I said before "technically"- it works.

However, (I may pinned on the wall for saying this) anyone can make a simple typographic mark work- technically. Its called go into illustrator pick a font and write out the name- VILOA- a logo that technically works- am I not right?

The key here is if you do decide to base it on typography creating a logo that also communciates something about the business it correspndance or anything to do with that business that could help potentially brand it.

You may also like to look at alternative style's. Is a typographic mark the best suited for the market? Is a illustration the better way to go? Is a symbol the best way? Is a abstract shape/symbol the best way?

These are are the little things you need to think about when cerating a logo. Not just does it work techincally. I hate to be the one to say it but, anyone with half a mind can make a logo work technically. However, to mnake it a visual communciation takes skill and expertise- not just the software.

So think out these idea(s) even before you start sketching them. Look at word trees and find things associted with the brand in correspondance to build on perhaps in the logo.

A logo is a process- its not just to jump into illustrator and use type. Yes, many logos are only composed of type but, you need to think about why and if that is appropriate for your market.

Now, I'm not saying your style is incorrect just addressing thing you need to consider when creating a logo. So think about all these things when you go about your process.

Sincde, I have some time to spare I'm going to go through a rough idea what should happen here in the initial stages ( at least the way I would go about).

Your company selles speakers- correct?

So don't you think just putting a speaker is somewhat boring and uncreative?

The most memorable logos are those that go beyond literal interpertation into the conceptual realm.

So in order to get there is what I would suggest.

before you even think about sketching up ideas break your company down into the simplest of forms.

Why?- well when you break things down into the simplest of forms its much easier to find a visual correspondance for them then saying "aquatic"- what does that mean?- how can I represent it from off the bat.

So we can begin to break this up into two ways

1.) company name- aqautic
2.) produce

I tend to favor looking things in regards to the name at first becasue products can change in time and what happens if this company starts to expand their markt elsewere?- an outdated logo- thats what. So I would recommend revolving the majority of the communication around the name and genera; idea of what they sell- underwater entertainment/audio equipment- right?

So now we have a company- audia that sells under water audio equipment. Allready we are beginning to get a more generalized idea of what this company does, but thats not enough.

Personally, I really like the idea about communicating underwater audio equipment. I think its an interesting idea in itself becasue it offer a shift in reality.

Why you say?

Well think about it this way?

Toaster next to the bathtub- what is wrong with that?

See the concept?

If you didn't figure it out I'll tell you what I was thinking here. Water + electricity- bad right? So why not in your logo convey it as a positive combination rather then a negative one that most would associate this relationship by.

So allready we have an idea higher then just a speaker.

-Communicating the positive combination of water and electricity- that is company's focus- no?

So now maybe start to build some visuals from that idea. What things are associated with electricity?- what is electricity? what items are elctrical?. How can one depict water and a combination of electricity?

These are just some questions that come to mind, but the bext step would we sketching out and researching word combinations tht relate to both water and electrivity/electrical equipment. Then after that to start combining them to form a communciation that says just what we want- water+ electicity = positive relationship vs. negative one- get the idea?

Some ideas for water right off the bat would be maybe the rubber duckey type thing. people allways assciate that with water- right? Maybe perhaps even a pool toy of some sort? Then with electicity maybe use the idea of the toaster rather then a speaker. Just keep on finding thats that are associated with your inital two words.

We could go even further here and begin to bring in the idea of sub aquatic. Right off the idea that comes to mind is a sub- maybe a sub sandwich- thats not really related to water- right? So how could you maybe find a way to relate it to water?

A dictonary helps alot of the time also. Just thinking of words and runningthem through a dictonary to see if they have any contrasting meaning of what one would generally associate them with. The idea I gacve above was the sub, but it can be done with any word.

So this is how you begin to form idea for a visual communication- not just a logo. Anyone can make a logo work technically- but it takes certain amount of expertise for it to communciate and I assume thats what you after.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

Hi Brenton, good to see you are trying to learn something.

Give this a try: Pick an existing company, research on what they are about (products, services, target market, etc), redesign a logo (alternate logo) that you think would suit them.

Keep in mind that some existing company logos are already very successful.

All the best!

[typographics]

Are you comunicating anything to me?- not really.
sure he is. in fact, you admit to it later in your post:
Yeah… I get the whole wave thing and speaker thing but, didn't see it untill I read it.
the problem is that you are relying solely on the logo alone for some kind of definite confirmation of what the company literally does. that isnt the purpose of a logo. you almost never see a logo by itself, it always accompanies a descriptive element; advertising, photographs, packaging, products, signage etc... so, you cant look at a logo by itself and say "gee, i didnt understand it until you explained it to me". typically, the explanation comes from what the logo is visually tied to, and acts as an identifier to that particular piece of design/communication.

now, if you see the logo along side a descriptive element, and it still doesnt communicate...then your point would be valid. personally, if i saw this logo attached to an advertisement for underwater speakers, i would instantly make the connection.

that said, its still extremely generic and uninteresting. its lacks creativity and uniqueness. i wouldnt scrap this idea, but i would suggest pushing it a lot further.

So don't you think just putting a speaker is somewhat boring and uncreative?
only if its done in a boring and uncreative way. youve never seen simple imagery used successfully? you havent seen obvious/literal graphics used in creative and unique ways?


Communicating the positive combination of water and electricity- that is company's focus- no?
i hope not. water and electricity can be a deadly combination. why would you want to communicate this as a positive thing? i dont know much about underwater speakers, but i would assume that the manufacturer takes extra care not to introduce electricity directly into the water supply.

Some ideas for water right off the bat would be maybe the rubber duckey type thing
i dont think thats a good direction. rubber duckies are associated with bathtubs, not water specifically. again, i dont know much about underwater speakers, but i dont think they are something you put in your bathtub.

brentonmailman, i would get online and research underwater speakers. i did briefly, because honestly i didnt know what they were. i discovered a large variety of uses for this particular niche of products. most of the uses are not for the general public. (ie. people who own hot tubs and swimming pools are probably not the target market) but again, i only looked into it briefly, so i could be mistaken. just make sure you research the product and understand who your audience is.

what you have now needs a lot more tweaking. if you continue with this concept, find a way to integrate the typography into the sound waves. right now they are two seperate elements and the overall mark lacks cohesion. also, find a better way to illustrate the sound waves. centering them over the typeface makes the logo appear stagnant, dated and boring. spark some life and creativity into it! (but keep that spark away from water) :)

[PrintDriver]

All very good points Typo.

[cj2a]

I'm with typographics on this one...simple can communicate. Being too literal and trying to pack too much information about the company into a logo can end up as badly as saying too little.

Your logo is a good start. Take this image and start fresh using it as your baseline. Tweak it, experiment with it, push it farther than it is now. Also, don't forget to create other unique options as well...clients want choices.

[BrentonMailman]

THANKYOU SO MUCH TYPO! both for saving me all the typing in reply to tz and for sticking up for me.

I am totally on the same page as you, something tells me that an underwater speaker company doesnt want a brandmark of a ruber duckey munching on a toasted submarine sandwich :D

(and to tz-) I DID look for that font! I didnt just go in and use some old thing I had lying around! AND I did think about the company, I even typed it out! Also, the focus is not electricity, they don't do lights or tv screens undrewater, JUST SOUND so electricity itself seems far less exciting than taking advantage of the more specific element- sound.

I want it to look professional, not childish with a 'mascot' this company (as typo said) deals MAINLY with scientific applications, and to a select few upper class citizens.

I know it needs tweaking, I just wanted to get it out there early so all you cuys could be in for the whole ride. :)

I do intend to further the development, Its not like Ive never done this before, I know it will look MUCH different when it is done, AND that I will be EVEN happier with it.

so thanks all.

One last thing though, how come everytime I post here, I get the explination of the process of creating a logo? Ive heard it many times and am quite familiar with it...

[tZ]

I only suggest ideas… I wasn't saying make a rubber duck with toaster for the logo.

However, from all these works and ideas you can build something that will communicate.

It only communciates becasue I read your logic.

If you have told me nothing about the company I would be clueless.

Allthough, I do perosnally like this type of "impled" design I think to go beyond the "implied" notions of an object is key to creating a wonderfull logo.

Casue right now your logo could be anything elliptical. There is nothing that makes it an evident speaker.

I am a fan of simplicity but, sometimes I think people make things to simple becasue they themselves have stumbled upon an "interesting" arangement of basic shapes that could imply what they want. However, to the average viewer that implied vision is not so obvious and leaves the audience wondering.

Which… could be a good thing I quess.

^ becasue the process is what makes a great logo or any design for what matter.

To typographics I definatly get what your saying. However, contrasting ideas can create very interesting and memorable branding concepts. Which is really what a logo should do. Set the ground for branding. I wasn't saying electricity and water is a good thing but, that is the basic idea of the company. Combining(speakers- electrical equipment) with water. So maybe finding a way to communicate that combination in a positive way in name of enjoyment and entertainment would could be worthy idea of puruing further- perhaps.

However, yes I do get what your saying.

[BrentonMailman]

okay, lets all calm down for a little while until I get an updated design posted here.

To refresh everyones mind, the idea of my first logo is sound waves and water waves, not an actual speaker. and I do realize that sound waves in water are not PERFECTLY round, but they are actually pretty close (I did my research) and I wanted to plant the seed that the soundwaves of Audia speakers could pass water un inhibited, perhaps even embracing it (thus we have the dual purpose of water waves and sound waves.)

[The1Style]

Cool logo.

[cjoe]

personally i think the logo is excellent. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, great discussion guys!

[CamarotaDesign]

I like it because the strokes of the type match the soundwaves. Also placing it below the waves reinforces the submerged Idea.

The simplicity of it is nice, though it would need to be refined more to make it more impacting and professional. Its still pretty good right now, but what seperates a pro from an amatuer is the details. And I know you might only be 15, but hell if you are producing stuff like this already, you might as well take it up a notch now and have a professional portfolio by the time you get into college.

More focus on unifying the font with the sound waves through negative space. The negative space (thats the white space) in the area above "Audia" needs to flow better with the soundwaves. Maybe give it a bulge or gradual ascention and descension of its letters so it creates a negative space that accents the curves. You could also lose some length on the ascender of the "d" (thats the part of the "d" that sticks up)

Mailman, I think you could benefit by learning about typography now.
Heres a few good sites to get you started:

- Counterspace (http://www.counterspace.us/typography/)
- typoGRAPHIC (http://www.rsub.com/typographic/)
- Evolution of Type (http://www.mediumbold.com/04_thinking/type/)
- Bembo's Zoo (http://www.bemboszoo.com)

You might find it all totally boring, or totally fascinating. I hated typography when I first started taking design courses in college-- now I love it. I guess it depends on whether or not you get a good teacher, and you are ready to learn about it.

For all you more seasoned designers, and typography students:

- Hearing Type (http://www.csuchico.edu/%7Efarmweb/hearingtype.pdf) An essay on the similarities between musical structure and typographic structure.

Will Harris's Esperfonto (http://www.will-harris.com/esperfonto/) This is a pretty cool tool. You tell it what style you are going for with your type, and it will give you a list of choices that could work, very helpful.


Hope that helps.

[Crimson]

Brenton it must be a good logo if it's getting so much attention.

If something looks good people will look at it.
If something looks bad people will still look at it. They will just think it looks bad.

You just can't please everybody. Ultimately, it's a fake logo and the only client you have to please is yourself. When you do it for real then you have to make that client happy. There are countless times I have shown clients 4-5 concepts and they always pick my least favorite one. I go "Why did you pick that one?".

I think TZ is trying to be helpful. He doesn't want you to go down the path of the darkside. Fear leads to lazy. Lazy leads to poor design. poor design leads to suffering. Suffering leads to the darkside. There is always something new to learn or a different way to look at things.

Work hard and work smart. Make it look good but make it functional too.
<<Balance Daniel-son.>> (in best karate kid voice)

[urstwile]

I like it because the strokes of the type match the soundwaves. Also placing it below the waves reinforces the submerged Idea.

The simplicity of it is nice, though it would need to be refined more to make it more impacting and professional. Its still pretty good right now, but what seperates a pro from an amatuer is the details. And I know you might only be 15, but hell if you are producing stuff like this already, you might as well take it up a notch now and have a professional portfolio by the time you get into college.

More focus on unifying the font with the sound waves through negative space. The negative space (thats the white space) in the area above "Audia" needs to flow better with the soundwaves. Maybe give it a bulge or gradual ascention and descension of its letters so it creates a negative space that accents the curves. You could also lose some length on the ascender of the "d" (thats the part of the "d" that sticks up)

Mailman, I think you could benefit by learning about typography now.
Heres a few good sites to get you started:

- Counterspace (http://www.counterspace.us/typography/)
- typoGRAPHIC (http://www.rsub.com/typographic/)
- Evolution of Type (http://www.mediumbold.com/04_thinking/type/)
- Bembo's Zoo (http://www.bemboszoo.com)

You might find it all totally boring, or totally fascinating. I hated typography when I first started taking design courses in college-- now I love it. I guess it depends on whether or not you get a good teacher, and you are ready to learn about it.

For all you more seasoned designers, and typography students:

- Hearing Type (http://www.csuchico.edu/%7Efarmweb/hearingtype.pdf) An essay on the similarities between musical structure and typographic structure.

Will Harris's Esperfonto (http://www.will-harris.com/esperfonto/) This is a pretty cool tool. You tell it what style you are going for with your type, and it will give you a list of choices that could work, very helpful.


Hope that helps.


Wow, I myself am very excited about those links Camarota. Thanks! :)

[BrentonMailman]

WOW thanks so much, Camarota especially, I will definitely start to focus more on typography... maybe thats the less stressful focus of the summer?? :)

thanks so much for all the feedback, its incredible! it feels so good to finally have other people that WANT to go in depth about stuff and dont just say "thats nice honey" ;) (thanks mom and dad! lol)

[CamarotaDesign]

Urst - Glad to hear that! I love these sites. They all had a big part in how I learned to love typography. That and of course also having an awesome typography teacher was helpful.

Mailman- I hear ya! I'm the only designer at a direct mail marketing agency and I just get praise all day long, so its nice to come here for some abuse :) Stick around and we'll help you become a better designer too.

Check out the sticky thread: "resource super thread" in the resources section, its probably the best thread in the whole forum. I wish I had found this forum 5 years ago!!!