Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Should your hourly rate/project rate get higher with more experience?
wienerdog
08-07-2006, 06:32 PM
Ok, I've read all I can about not working on spec and agree that the lowballers are hurting not only the lowballer, but creative industries in general.
That being said, is it safe to assume that as we gain experience, it's to be expected that our rates will increase? My rates have stayed pretty low, but I haven't been doing much freelance work of late. Thankfully, the full-time gig, while mundane, has been lucrative enough to make due. But I'm itching for something creative for a change.
I've gained 4+ years as a designer since I started at some real measily and embarassing rates. But honestly, the $11 an hour I made was probably fair considering I just learned the difference between CMYK and RGB. :)
That being said, I know it's taboo to talk specific dollar amounts, and I'm not one that's about to gut the industry by taking even twice what I did in '02.
I've learned a lot of techniques as well as found new creative skills that didn't come from a KEWL PHOTOSHOP TRICKS book.
I was recently offered a job that paid WAY more than anything I'd done prior, and realized I am probably still undervaluing myself. I'm not thrilled with a lot of my portfolio work these days and think I can do better. While I appreciate a good critique, I get the feeling my modesty may actually be hurting my career!
But is it fair for me to charge as much as someone who has tons more experience than I have? I've worked with some major brands in the past (for crappy $ in hindsight) and feel I need to take the next step to push my career in the right direction and ignore that self-doubt that may be hurting my own pocket.
If the minimum wage increase goes through, greasy, pimply faced teenagers will be making $7.50 flipping burgers.
I think you are due a freelance raise. If you are using all of your own hardware and software I would multiply your current hourly by a minimum of 4x.
But you do have a package of frozen wieners on your website .... so make it 3x ;)
reuber1
08-07-2006, 07:52 PM
If the minimum wage increase goes through, greasy, pimply faced teenagers will be making $7.50 flipping burgers.It wont, or at least it better not. They tied to that bill one that would eliminate the estate tax for the wealthy, a lovely "poison pill" bill. So if you're a democratic senator opposed to the second bill, then you're "opposed" to raising the minimum wage.
cmont
08-07-2006, 07:55 PM
ugh, i hate politics!
morea
08-07-2006, 08:06 PM
I actually lower my rates every time I get a new project because I figure that I don't have as many original ideas left in my head.
Just kidding.
The more you know, the more you're worth. If you haven't already, check out the GAG Handbook for Pricing and Ethical Guidelines. It's helpful.
wienerdog
08-07-2006, 08:41 PM
I actually lower my rates every time I get a new project because I figure that I don't have as many original ideas left in my head.
Just kidding.
The more you know, the more you're worth. If you haven't already, check out the GAG Handbook for Pricing and Ethical Guidelines. It's helpful.
Thanks, Morea. I was considering picking up a copy of the Graphic Arts Guild Handbook soon. I was considering joining too, since fees are a tax write-off anyway. I've been real on the fence on joining since I don't know what I would get out of it, really.
One of the most important things I've learned is when to walk away from a potential client that I get the feeling won't pay up. If they don't like the idea of paying a good portion of your estimate up-front, chances are they won't wind up paying you at all. It's hard to make that decision when you're first starting out, though, as you're desperate for padding a portfolio.
wienerdog
08-07-2006, 08:42 PM
If the minimum wage increase goes through, greasy, pimply faced teenagers will be making $7.50 flipping burgers.
I think you are due a freelance raise. If you are using all of your own hardware and software I would multiply your current hourly by a minimum of 4x.
But you do have a package of frozen wieners on your website .... so make it 3x ;)
I'm rethinking that whole frozen pack of hot dogs graphic, and especially the layout all together. I'd like to get away from the Photoshop-sliced graphic layout as it's really passe and considered bad design.
It wont, or at least it better not. They tied to that bill one that would eliminate the estate tax for the wealthy, a lovely "poison pill" bill. So if you're a democratic senator opposed to the second bill, then you're "opposed" to raising the minimum wage.
It's an election year - The democrats will revive this measure before November without the estate tax add on. The Republicans who supported the bill last time will have to do so again to avoid looking like giant hippocrates.
Removing any reference to hot dogs on your website is a step in the right direction :D
Keep it simple and clean.
My rates are determined by supply and demand. I suppose the more experience I have, the more demand there is, so. There ya go.
My rates are determined by supply and demand. I suppose the more experience I have, the more demand there is, so. There ya go.
That logic also works for the hooker industry.
That logic also works for the hooker industry.
I'm a design whore, it's true.
Hey baby, what you need ...
$2000 dolla - website design that willl make you holla!
urstwile
08-07-2006, 11:55 PM
It wont, or at least it better not. They tied to that bill one that would eliminate the estate tax for the wealthy, a lovely "poison pill" bill. So if you're a democratic senator opposed to the second bill, then you're "opposed" to raising the minimum wage.
Don't you just love how that works? Bah, politicians. Take a good bill, and then mess it up with something that either dooms it or makes it drag along a bad thing in order to pass.
urstwile
08-07-2006, 11:57 PM
To answer the original post, I think it's completely fair to assume that as you gain more experience, and also as you become more in demand, that your rates would go up. Morea's advice is good about the pricing guidelines.
cornfed
08-08-2006, 12:05 AM
I'm glad you asked this. I've been considering a rate increase and I think I'm gonna go for it. I put a lot of damn work into the cd covers that I do. My client told me today that he was so pleased that I went the extra mile for his cover that he felt the pay was no longer fair (the contract included a poster, too). He was honest enough to tell me that he thought we should draw up a new contract on the poster. I was so happy! I didn't and still don't feel like I was undercutting myself, but I guess if the client said something, then maybe I can move into the next bracket of designers. So, I say go for it!!
wienerdog
08-08-2006, 02:40 PM
I'm glad you asked this. I've been considering a rate increase and I think I'm gonna go for it. I put a lot of damn work into the cd covers that I do. My client told me today that he was so pleased that I went the extra mile for his cover that he felt the pay was no longer fair (the contract included a poster, too). He was honest enough to tell me that he thought we should draw up a new contract on the poster. I was so happy! I didn't and still don't feel like I was undercutting myself, but I guess if the client said something, then maybe I can move into the next bracket of designers. So, I say go for it!!
Wow, CD covers and packaging and your client wants to increase your $? You're living my dream!
wienerdog
08-08-2006, 02:49 PM
Removing any reference to hot dogs on your website is a step in the right direction :D
Keep it simple and clean.
That's true, if the kind of work I wanted was a corporate style, but I'm trying to get away from that and showcase some new illustrations with a more strange style. I'd like to get more unique with my work, because the design chameleon I've been to get a buck is getting boring.
I've gotten positive and negative feedback on the whole hot dog thing. Wiener Graphics as a concept with hot dogs is still one I think I want to hold onto. I know it looks schlocky right now, but I redesign it with a better layout, and make better use of the idea, I think it's unique enough to want to keep it.
I know the first thing to do is rework it so the background color is not eye-blaring yellow.
superlove
08-10-2006, 10:31 AM
To answer the thread title : definitely. IF you can show that the experience has actually made a difference!
rikbarwick
08-11-2006, 09:01 AM
Problem is if you start charging a cheap rate to be competitive so you get the work your dragging down our industry value. I have a minimum hourly rate, which varies on timeline, work etc.
mojoprime
08-11-2006, 09:00 PM
they're right. i totally don't charge what i did at 25 (now *much* older than that) though i had already been working in the biz for years. i think the guild idea is good, because that's sort of what we are in a way. i mean, in the old days, you apprenticed with a pressman to learn his craft.
when i started at the newspaper, i took some good advice, swallowed my young pride and bravado and had a pressman critique me nightly on my pages, until i got them technically correct. (artistically, well, i was very young...)
but i have what learned from him now and the res to fht experience. i am by no means done learning -- in this biz, if you're done learning, you're done in the biz. by i didn't just fall off the chartpak truck.