Being sued (snicker) for copyright footer [Archive]

Patrick Shannon

08-09-2006, 02:50 PM

I'm not privy to all the details (just overheard it), but supposedly one of our clients is threatening to sue us for how our footer appears in one of our websites. On the bottom of all our websites for our clients for our niche (long term health care), the footer reads...

1996-2006 (Their Company Name), (Our Company Name)., All Rights Reserved

Anyway, the client is flipping out saying things to the effect that it's not a partnership/dual ownership and that she has the right to sue us because we didn't offer her a 50% discount for putting it on there. Naturally the designers here are having a huge laugh over this, with the head saying that the legalities is that the client owns the content and that our company owns the design and HTML/framework/functionality/etc.

I honestly don't know company policy involving the footer if removing it is an option or not (certainly would just make things easier). But if she's spewing bunk, I wouldn't remove crap.

Don't have my Graphic Guild Guide book handy at the moment for specific legalities, what do you all think?

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 03:01 PM

Man, people are so sue happy!! I think you're in the clear. Althought I thought McDonalds was in the clear when they were sued for serving hot coffee... or for serving supersized burgers with hidden calorie content.

Sorry... all of this suing for crap pisses me off. Good luck... even though the guy doesnt have a case at all, its still a pain in the butt.

carter the artist

08-09-2006, 03:15 PM

Ned

08-09-2006, 03:17 PM

Althought I thought McDonalds was in the clear when they were sued for serving hot coffee...

Oh come now. McDonalds was SO in the wrong there. She put the coffee between her legs in the car, and it spilled all over her. Why did McDonalds not print a warning, "Not to be used between legs"!?

Navian

08-09-2006, 03:27 PM

Dont forget alot of these stupid lawsuit are being thrown out by judges.

I'm with Ned..

I think that the fact the mcdonalds lady knew it was "HOT" coffee, she knew the concequences of putting a liquid drink with a not really secured lid between her legs it would spill. She is just playing the stupidity card, but thats card that wins, unfortunatly, but then cases like this just get thrown out by some judges.. By the way didnt this case get thrown out or was it apealed?

*edit* seriously though, what temperature is "hot" coffee? in what temperature is coffee mostly drank? Fill in the blank "Could I get a cup of ______ coffee?" hint, most people dont say cold coffee.*/edit*

Pat, I'd take that info, and her statement (if you have it in writing), contracts, and proof to a lawyer just to see if she can. C.Y.A.

jimking

08-09-2006, 03:27 PM

Or please don't shove hot coffee in anal cavity or.......................................

Ned

08-09-2006, 03:30 PM

She is just playing the stupidity card, but thats card that wins,

Yeah, I pull that card all the time. ;)

Navian

08-09-2006, 03:33 PM

Wish I could, I just dont have any of those jokers.

Logo-Mechanix

08-09-2006, 03:38 PM

Even if it gets thrown out you know who gets paid.....LAWYERS, they love frivolous lawsuits.

carter the artist

08-09-2006, 03:38 PM

wow, i just felt ignored.... The coffe was like 200 degrees, not just hot, but dangerously hot.... she had major surgery for 3rd degree burns...

it wasn't like, ouch, hot coffee.... it was oh crap, i need emergency room hot coffee...

I used to think it was a stupid case too, but you have to remember, a jury had to feel that it warranted it, as well.

wienerdog

08-09-2006, 03:38 PM

Actually Jack, one of my college professors explained the McDonalds case and she had all right to sue.

It wasn't just hot coffee, it was 200 degree coffee. It seems that they would heat their coffee to "totally unsafe" temperatures to avoid having to clean the machine so much. This saved them money, but put consumers at risk. In fact she got major third degree burns and had to have major surgery...

so, yeah she had a lawsuit.

I had a Business Ethics class years ago and my teacher explained the same thing. That case is a bad example of frivilous lawsuits because McDonalds would heat their coffee way hotter than a temperature that is humanly consumable. :)

Drorain

08-09-2006, 03:40 PM

water boils at about 200 I think...so wtf, of course it's hot.

you serve boiling tea dont you...lol pancakers

Drorain

08-09-2006, 03:41 PM

I had a Business Ethics class years ago and my teacher explained the same thing. That case is a bad example of frivilous lawsuits because McDonalds would heat their coffee way hotter than a temperature that is humanly consumable. :)

but makes a great warmer for your nuts

Logo-Mechanix

08-09-2006, 03:43 PM

I once got burned by Elios pizza...I should have sued, it's their fault my impatient hungry arse could'nt wait for th damn thing to cool off.

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 03:50 PM

I know judges are throwingsome out... but it shouldnt even get to that point. What bothers me is the people that think they should get paid for getting fat from cheeseburgers
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/21/obesity.lawsuit/
(a case where no judge would take it but they are revising their suit to get it into court)

What bothers me is... I thought when something happened to you... ie. in a car accident that wasnt your fault, you can take it to court and get rimbursed for damages to bring you back to the point where you were at before the accident. You shouldnt make a huge profit off of it. My friend slipped on ice while driving and is being sued for a hefty amount. I think they have every right to pain and suffering $$ but you shouldnt become a millionare because of a genuine accident.

I just feel america is so selfish. take some damn responsibility.

Satchel

08-09-2006, 03:54 PM

I've been trying to sue someone for years... before I got my job I was going to make it my full time job. I almost had the GAP, but then I guess my conscience got the better of me! :D

Seriously though, I can see sueing someone for a valid reason but I agree that some people are just plain old sue happy.

Logo-Mechanix

08-09-2006, 03:59 PM

I was sued once for a minor auto accident where there was no damage to either vehicle. It went before an arbitrator and was settled before any trial but this woman got about 10 grand from that. She made it sound like she had one foot in the grave, I was so mad that she even got a dime. And people wonder why auto insurance is so high.

Red Kittie Kat

08-09-2006, 04:00 PM

There are many ...... too many unnecessary lawsuits in this country and I know everyone laughs about the McDonalds incident calling it frivolous ..... but just so you know....

Stella Liebeck placed the coffee between her knees to add cream and sugar ..... when she tried to remove the lid the foam cup collapsed spilling onto her lap.

A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body.

Liebeck suffered burns on her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas.

She was hospitalized for eight days,during which time she underwent skin grafting and debridement treatments (the surgical removal of tissue).

This coffee was not HOT.......... it was scalding ...... and it could have happened to any one of us.

**getting of soap box now**

JPnyc

08-09-2006, 04:06 PM

I think the issue was that the coffee was somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 degrees. There is no need, ever, to serve coffee that temperature, and in fact it's hazardous. Accidents happen, people spill things. You can't hand them a cup of scalding hot liquid at 200F and claim it's fine. That's like carrying acid in a glass. It's fine if you don't happen to spill it.

SurfPark

08-09-2006, 04:09 PM

They're going to sue for a byline on a web site? Good luck establishing that case! The judge isn't going to grant anyone money. The worst that could happen is that the copyright notice will be reworded. Totally stupid.

Drorain

08-09-2006, 04:18 PM

lol okay that kind of damage is over the top, sooo....I'm gonna now sue whoever invented drive thrus

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 04:19 PM

I dont deny that she suffered damages. Why'd she put the hot coffee between her legs while she drove?

Im referring to more the general... sorry I used specific examples. America as a whole is sue happy and they are saturating our courts. I can't stand seeing commercials for law firms...:

"I was rear ended in a parking lot. Michael Smith & Associates* got me $80k!"

*fictional law firm

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 04:21 PM

lol okay that kind of damage is over the top, sooo....I'm gonna now sue whoever invented drive thrus

lol. Sue the company who packaged the creamer. If it was easier to open, maybe she wouldnt have to take both hands off her coffee... or the wheel!

Navian

08-09-2006, 04:36 PM

I should be able to sue people for lacking common sense, or just being plain stupid. I'd be rich.

Navian

08-09-2006, 04:37 PM

lol. Sue the company who packaged the creamer. If it was easier to open, maybe she wouldnt have to take both hands off her coffee... or the wheel!

Maybe her state should revoke her license, and take her car, she obviously can't operate a vehicle properly.

JPnyc

08-09-2006, 04:48 PM

I should be able to sue people for lacking common sense, or just being plain stupid. I'd be rich.
Handing someone something that can scald the skin from their body, when they're expecting a drinkable liquid, is placing them in harm's way. It's irresponsible, and she had every right to sue. Sorry, but I don't see how that is debatable.

Let's try another analogy. You buy an mp3 player, which is capable of 2 to 3x the volume of the average one. You are not warned of this. You adjust the volume to where you normally would, but that volume is 3x what you're used to, and you suffer hearing damage. Is the manufacturer responsible for not telling you that normal expectations of amplification were greatly exceeded in this product?

So too is McD's responsible for handing the woman a cup of liquid that she expected to be of drinkable temperature, but in fact was several times hotter than that temperature.

Logo-Mechanix

08-09-2006, 04:53 PM

I guess I don't have a case against Elios they do warn you on the box that it will be hot when it comes out of the oven. My hunger got the better of me.

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 04:54 PM

I guess I don't have a case against Elios they do warn you on the box that it will be hot when it comes out of the oven. My hunger got the better of me.

You could still try. maybe they'd settle to avoid the bad publicity. If you need the burn to look more "convincing" I hear Mcdonalds can help you out...

JPnyc

08-09-2006, 04:57 PM

Of course if you're more interested in whimsy and having fun that actual debate, that's fine too. :D

08-09-2006, 05:25 PM

I'm far less concerned with frivolous lawsuits than I am about the trend for every tom dick and harry to file bancrupcy when they feel a little inconvenienced about their debt. I know things are changing with legislations there, but it's still a real problem imo. A woman that I worked for (I posted about this in the past) filed bancrupcy twice in I believe 5 years. Not only was I out personally for thousands, but a lot of other people around town were too - to the tune of half a million dollars. If she's that bad at business, if she can only exist by swindling people, then unlike the judge's ruling, she does not "deserve a fresh start" unless it's in prison.

I can't count the number of times a friend of mine has told me they are filing bancrupcy -- right after they furnish the house, take a trip to barcelona and buy a new tv/camera/whatever.

Somebody pays for this crap in the end, and in a very direct way -- I pay for it. Americans are lazy and have a delusional sense of entitlement, and that's the bottom line.

JPnyc

08-09-2006, 05:47 PM

Can't argue with that.

Navian

08-09-2006, 05:49 PM

Ec, so does that mean my wife and I are a bad people then?

My wife and I ended up filing a chapter 13 (not a 7, 7 wipes your dept, 13 you pay back minus intrest up to what people want for 4 years).

Mostly because of high interest, and losing jobs. Sh*t like that happens. We had everything working till they did a mass R.I.F. (reduction in force) for my job and many others when i worked at the airport (TSA).

I had a difficult time finding another job after that. then every job after would "run out of work" for me (note, this state is a "right to work" state, they can get rid of you for any or no reason). So the bills started piling up, so did the interest, we couldnt keep up, tons of things where headed to collection agencies, we couldnt do a debt consolidation, we had no alternative.

But I'll tell you, now, it is a beast to do anything. We pay a $400.00 payment every month just for the chapter 13. Cant take out any new dept (loans, except school), you cant make any huge purchases (or they will know), your taxes are watched like a hawk. (if we get back more than 1k, they get the rest past the 1k, for tax returns).

Its not all that easy, chapter 7 is way way worse, we at least want to pay back, that is what a 13 does. (its good to know the difference).

People get confused on the bankruptcies.. But now the new laws are, you have to go through dept councling/managment, you have to work at it for a while before you can file a chapter 13. you cant just pick and file anymore especially for a chapter 7. you have to do a 13 before you can do a 7, if you cant pay up while in a 13, then by judge only do they settle and allow you to file a 7.

This is our first time, and it is a big lesson for both of us. What also sucks is my wife went in for galbladder surgery (shes fine now) but we have these doctor bills we have to pay that we couldnt add. so thats an additional $300 a month.

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 06:27 PM

I think, correct me if Im wrong, EC was saying that what bothers him is the people that abuse bankruptcy. They use it as a way out and not as a helping hand. Not to open a whole second can of worms... but working at a grocery store for 5 years I saw people doing that with foodstamps. Theyre eating steak and buying tons of candy with them. I cant afford that stuff! not to mention theyre dressed better than I can, or have 6 freakin kids. Abusing the system... because they can.

Sorry to get off on a tangent... I agree with EC and no Navian, no one thinks ill of you and your wife. Sorry again to get off on my poeple living off the government's dollar tangent.

08-09-2006, 06:43 PM

Ec, so does that mean my wife and I are a bad people then?

Hell no. The thing about bancrupcy is it's supposed to be a safety net. It's actually one that I can only pray would be there for me if I really need it, but a lot of a$$jacks out there are abusing it and ruining it for the people who may really need it. The same goes for welfare -- it was set up to be a safety net, so nobody in this country would have to live the way they did during the depression era ever again, not a way of life.

Sh*t does happen. You're going along with your life and stuff comes up and you find yourself in a rough situation due to change of circumstances -- job loss, health care costs, etc. Bring in the safety nets. That's what makes this country great.

What I am talking about are people that abuse the system. People who actually PLAN to file bancrupcy -- "I'm going to buy this, this, and this, then sit down and file bancrupcy." Seriously, I had a friend file bancrupcy and the next month spend three weeks in Europe, she was unemployed. How does that happen?

Or the woman who is purposefully CONNING people into working for her or printing stuff for her with no intentions to pay them (we're talking about dozens of people and businesses here over the course of several years!), and finds herself in court every few years to wipe the slate clean.

I've had several friends do it, and while I sleep on a hand-me-down bed, they've got a designer bedroom set that somebody else had to pay for. It wasn't out of necessity, it was about the feeling of entitlement. That they for some reason deserve all this material stuff and don't need to actually work for it due to some legal loop hole.

I apologize if I offended you, but I wasn't talking about bancrupcy itself. We were talking about legal frivolities here.

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 07:22 PM

i guess i wasn't far off, EC....

Logo-Mechanix

08-09-2006, 07:23 PM

Well Elios has settled out of court and I get a lifetimes supply. Woohoo now who's the big winner.

Jackimalyn

08-09-2006, 07:48 PM

is that free plain cheese? do you have to pay for extra toppings? because that should be covered in pain and suffering!

Logo-Mechanix

08-09-2006, 07:53 PM

No toppings were included in the settlement, damn I knew I should have held out for toppings, Just plain cheese, but it's still a good deal and I can always add my own toppings.

Navian

08-09-2006, 09:19 PM

Ec, I wasnt trying to be offensive, or offend anyone. I applogize if it thats how the text I typed seemed :( sorry.

I'm just having a rough day at work.. I tell you what though, I'd love to deal with anyones worst design clients (even the devil ones) any day, hell you can double them up on me... I'll trade you one engineer.

I tell you, its funny how a job (place) just turn around on you. I get here to this new job, they never really "trained" me on either their cad standards, they just tossed this huge 3-ringed binder that says "autocad operator users manual" and they tossed this other cad software book for microstation (sh*tty Cad), told me "You have 3 days to get up to speed, have fun reading."

I'm still struggling here, mostly with the software, because the project I'm on, it is being done in microstation, but we do some projects in AutoCad.

reuber1

08-09-2006, 09:32 PM

I tell you, its funny how a job (place) just turn around on you. I get here to this new job, they never really "trained" me on either their cad standards, they just tossed this huge 3-ringed binder that says "autocad operator users manual" and they tossed this other cad software book for microstation (sh*tty Cad), told me "You have 3 days to get up to speed, have fun reading."

I'm still struggling here, mostly with the software, because the project I'm on, it is being done in microstation, but we do some projects in AutoCad.Oh my god, I thought I was the only one. AutoCAD is probably a HELL of a lot harder than what I've got, though. Mine is a retail POS system.

Navian

08-09-2006, 09:45 PM

Oh my god, I thought I was the only one. AutoCAD is probably a HELL of a lot harder than what I've got, though. Mine is a retail POS system.

Autocad is pretty easy once you get used to it.. But Microstation is alot tougher, and you can say it is the redheaded step child of Autocad. I personaly think its a retarded program.

example doing one thing via 1 step, takes you about 3x's the steps for microstation.

CamarotaDesign

08-09-2006, 10:02 PM

Heres A lawsuit for ya'll

Man Sues Michael Jordan (http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa060707_db_jordan.35d179dc.html)

08-09-2006, 10:04 PM

Heres A lawsuit for ya'll

Man Sues Michael Jordan (http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa060707_db_jordan.35d179dc.html)

what an a-hole.

Red Kittie Kat

08-09-2006, 11:45 PM

Now that is a frivolous case if I ever heard one.... what would he like MJ to do ... get face reconstruction?

:D What a dips**t

reuber1

08-10-2006, 12:11 AM

Heres A lawsuit for ya'll

Man Sues Michael Jordan (http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa060707_db_jordan.35d179dc.html)HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH A HAHA HA HAH AHA HA HA!!!

Oh em eff gee.

What a moron.

urstwile

08-10-2006, 12:11 AM

Unbelievable. My husband loves it when people tell him he reminds them of Snoop Dogg.

08-10-2006, 12:19 AM

That's it, I'm suing Angelina Jolie.

reuber1

08-10-2006, 12:30 AM

That's it, I'm suing Angelina Jolie.
!!!

If Brad Pitt dies his hair red, I'm doing the same to him. Might as well take care of them both early.

08-10-2006, 12:36 AM

!!!

If Brad Pitt dies his hair red, I'm doing the same to him. Might as well take care of them both early.

word.

Maybe we can get some look-a-like kids and do a class action?

reuber1

08-10-2006, 12:43 AM

I don't know. There's the whole "having a kid" thing. I don't know if millions in lawsuit money is worth it.

urstwile

08-10-2006, 12:46 AM

There are a few celebrities I'd like to sue because there's no possibility I or anyone else without a lot of money could ever look like them. Raising unfair expectations as a basis for the claim, perhaps?

08-10-2006, 12:46 AM

Noooooooooo I don't mean let's get some kids. I just mean let's find some kids (that belong to other people) and ... oh nevermind.

I should have stopped at that's it, I'm suing Angelina Jolie.

urstwile

08-10-2006, 12:53 AM

Yeah, you were starting to go down a scary road there, EC. :D

08-10-2006, 12:54 AM

Yeah, you were starting to go down a scary road there, EC. :D

heehee. and I've probably completely confused all the people that think I'm a dude. (And I don't look like Angelina Jolie either, and thank God, I don't really want a mattress for a mouth much.)

:eek:

urstwile

08-10-2006, 12:55 AM

LOL. Yeah, I find her mouth to be pretty scary, actually.

reuber1

08-10-2006, 12:55 AM

I just mean let's find some kids (that belong to other people) and ... oh nevermind.That's what I meant too. Pervert.

superlove

08-10-2006, 10:02 AM

Sorry to revert to the original topic, but weren't the terms of the contract fully spelled out as such, and was the client not informed about it? I think it could be grounds for a lawsuit if the contract could be construed to say otherwise...

icekitty37

08-11-2006, 03:10 AM

i cant believe how off topic this one got... i read it all to see if anyone had anything good to say about your case too... :(

its just a common thing to do, put your link so others can trace it to you if they like your work. unless a high paying client specifically prefers that their site not have any trace of the creator, its just going to be put on the bottom of the site- regardless of if u have talked about it or not.

cant u settle it without her suing though? if she wants it off, id just take it off... it just might not be worth your time to battle for it.

cornfed

08-11-2006, 04:02 AM

I think it is actually illegal to tell someone you are going to sue them and not to follow through. If she doesn't sue, you guys should sue her for threatening to sue you. I'm sure this has cost you guys some emotional trauma, eh?!;)

Patrick Shannon

08-11-2006, 04:07 AM

Off-topic is right, usually I am the one that comes along and kills threads ;)

Don't really know what's going on with the situation at the moment, all my information has been second-hand (it's not a website I worked on).

I'm curious to see what the employers do about it, but I feel they have no leg to stand on and wouldn't even bother putting forward the time/cost/effort to do so.

Jackimalyn

08-11-2006, 02:58 PM

I dont mean to revive this killed thread but I was reading news and I this article reminded me of the discussion we had yesterday

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/ManageDebt/Don'tGetTooComfyWithYourDebt.aspx?GT1=8473 (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/ManageDebt/Don%27tGetTooComfyWithYourDebt.aspx?GT1=8473)

cgmpowers

08-11-2006, 07:04 PM

This is why this next paragraph is in all my contracts for web design...

5. Development Credit. Consultant retains the right to be acknowledged as the consultant of the site in an acknowledgments page. The right to acknowledgement may include a hypertext link to the Consultant’s web site, or a banner that links to the Consultant’s site. Client is given final control over the form of acknowledgement based on content provided by the Consultant. Client shall permit reasonable future access to the site as is necessary to update any acknowledgement links.

I didn't get sued but I had a client who thought it was good to delete my name off their website as web created by.. I have a provision elsewhere that if they wanted to forgo this clause then it'd be triple the cost of the project. BTW, I recently joined the AIGA and I believe its common practice for all work done as a freelancer to be under contract! I'd never do anything for anyone ever again without one.

I'm not privy to all the details (just overheard it), but supposedly one of our clients is threatening to sue us for how our footer appears in one of our websites. On the bottom of all our websites for our clients for our niche (long term health care), the footer reads...

1996-2006 (Their Company Name), (Our Company Name)., All Rights Reserved

Anyway, the client is flipping out saying things to the effect that it's not a partnership/dual ownership and that she has the right to sue us because we didn't offer her a 50% discount for putting it on there. Naturally the designers here are having a huge laugh over this, with the head saying that the legalities is that the client owns the content and that our company owns the design and HTML/framework/functionality/etc.

I honestly don't know company policy involving the footer if removing it is an option or not (certainly would just make things easier). But if she's spewing bunk, I wouldn't remove crap.

Don't have my Graphic Guild Guide book handy at the moment for specific legalities, what do you all think?

Patrick Shannon

08-11-2006, 08:58 PM

That's interesting, cgm.

I asked about the situation today and supposedly we have something similar in our contract. One of the designers said he hadn't heard from her, probably because "she read the contract." ;)

cgmpowers

08-11-2006, 09:02 PM

If you do hear from her, my contract(s) were originally drafted from Husch and Eppenberger here in St. Louis. If you need an attorney, I recommend them highly. They haven't updated my resumes yet for Graphic Design but I would definatel recommend them to anyone who asks.

That's interesting, cgm.

I asked about the situation today and supposedly we have something similar in our contract. One of the designers said he hadn't heard from her, probably because "she read the contract." ;)

Pica

08-11-2006, 10:00 PM

NERD ALERT!

Sorry the former science dork in me cannot let this go...

water boils at about 200 I think...so wtf, of course it's hot.

you serve boiling tea dont you...lol pancakers

Water boils at 100º Celsius, (and freezes at 0º... no coincidence since the Celsius system was based on these thresholds)

/sorry again... back to you're regularly scheduled thread
//this little blonde girl needs a beer