Brief study in white balance

[JPnyc]

I noticed that my 1st shots at a NYR hockey game, with the Fuji F11, were rather yellow, almost as if shot in sepia. Now the camera has an incandescent setting for white balance, but to be frank, it's crap. It also has custom white balance, however, and that makes all the difference. Below are 2 similar shots, every other condition the same, but the 1st is auto WB and the 2nd, custom. The light is my living room ceiling light, which is about the most yellow light I've ever seen.

[Red Kittie Kat]

You can definitely see a difference........ I need to learn to get my white balance right when I am inside and can't use a flash.

Pretty kewl JP!! :D

[urstwile]

Good job on figuring that out JP. Remarkable difference.

[JPnyc]

Well I didn't exactly figure that out all on my own. I have a good friend who's an absolute camera junkie. In fact, I was searching the web to see if there's a 12-step program for him, before his wife throws him out. Worst case of "Camera Acquisition Syndrome" I've ever seen.

[urstwile]

LOL, JP. Well at least you had someone knowledgeable to help you, that's great. It's always good having pals around who can help you figure out how to make things better.

[Red Kittie Kat]

And you aren't a camera junkie JP??


:D

[JPnyc]

There was also a photog on the NYR forum, a very good one, and he's the one that 1st clued me in that the lighting at MSG is very yellow, and that setting the white balance to tungsten was how he got his shots. Of course he had a VERY expensive camera so the white balance preset worked great. This one required custom white balance to get rid of the yellow.

[JPnyc]

And you aren't a camera junkie JP??


:D
He did this to me. He ruined my life. I was a happy-go-lucky, camera oblivious fellow. Now I'm ruined, quite possibly for life.

[urstwile]

Sure, blame it on someone else. :D

[balou]

Hey JP, does that brown/tan blanket on your chair have a lion on it?

[JPnyc]

Yep, does. Just threw it there because my pal was staying with me while he looked for an apt., and I like the place cool when sleeping. Apparently cooler than many other folks like it :D

[JPnyc]

Here's another example, the 1st one is using the White balance setting that is supposed to compensate for incandescent light, the 2nd using custom white bal.
All other settings identical, including no flash. Amazing how much proper white balance changes the perceived sharpness of the image.

[Red Kittie Kat]

sure does give a different result. ;)


....... btw..... you are in the city ... you shouldn't be leaving your door ajar :D

[D-Frag]

hey JP, I know of an awesome trick using the threshold, and the curves dialog, ill see if I can write up a tutorial here soon and post it as a sticky. its a scott kelby trick, and its the best ive seen for getting back the original color of any image

[JPnyc]

Thanks D. I wanted to try and get the white balance right when taking the shot, and so far, this method works. I'm really very disappointed in the incandescent light preset though. It's so close to useless the difference isn't worth discussing.

[urstwile]

D-Frag, I think I've seen that trick also, on one of the Photoshop TV episodes, but it is nice when you can get it right, right out of the camera.

[JPnyc]

Yeah especially when you don't HAVE photoshop, like me. :(

[D-Frag]

awww, that sucks jp, sorry. I know what you mean about those presets, they are not very good, thankfully mine has a button i can push to auto adjust my levels pre-shot

[JPnyc]

Well with this, and many digis, you can just take a white piece of paper, view it so it fills the LCD screen, and half click the shutter. That calibrates the custom white balance and saves it. So now I have a fine filter for yellow light, it's just not the one that came with the camera.

[urstwile]

Yeah especially when you don't HAVE photoshop, like me. :(

Oh, sorry, JP, didn't mean to assume. :(

[JPnyc]

S'ok folks, I'm a developer not a designer. My tools are notepad..............and................uh........ .........a computer?

[Red Kittie Kat]

But you do amazing work with limited tools ;)

[urstwile]

Indeed he does. And I'd say getting it right out of the camera is better than software anyway.

[JPnyc]

Thank you, thank you. I also make great meatballs, and an alfredo sauce that can clog yer arteries just by smelling it.

[Red Kittie Kat]

Alfredo sauce!!! Have I told you lately that I love you ....... and I do wash windows?



:D

[JPnyc]

Thanks, but I use McAfee to keep my Windows clean.

[Red Kittie Kat]

fine.................. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RedKittieKat/smilies/spank.gif





Well.... I'm good at cleaning other things too ....... but too late now mister!




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RedKittieKat/smilies/frisky.gif

[JPnyc]

*thud*

[Red Kittie Kat]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RedKittieKat/smilies/grinsmile.gif

[urstwile]

Those meatballs are sounding really good, JP. Hmm, I'll have to hit you up next time I'm in NYC. :)

[JPnyc]

Even my Italian mom defers to me to make them when I'm visiting. Now THAT'S an endorsement!

[urstwile]

Oh yeah.

I'll let you know when I'm flying in in the next day or so. When an Italian mama says "honey, you make the meatballs", they've GOT to be good.

[Red Kittie Kat]

Ok ....... Urstwile can have the meatballs ....... I want the sauce :D

[urstwile]

Um, meatballs without sauce is like um, carbon without dioxide. Kat, stay away from my sauce!

[urstwile]

I just realized that my previous post, combined with my signature, is the perfect combination in some weird funny way.

[Red Kittie Kat]

lmao Urstwile ......... I didn't mean the red sauce ..... I meant his Alfredo sauce :D

[urstwile]

Oh, well okay then, Kat. I like Alfredo sauce, but I'm really a red sauce girl most of the time. :D

[Red Kittie Kat]

I love it too ....... but bring on da cheese baby........ I do love cheeeeeeeeeeeese!! :D

[urstwile]

Of course, you've seen this, no doubt then (just a reference for the non-sequitur challenged): We like the moon (http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/)

[Red Kittie Kat]

Well that woke me up :D ............ yikes!! :D

[Mynock]

I tried in the second series to make it more like the second one, but my PS trick didn't get that green. It's a glad you found out how to fix it on the camera, because it can be alot harder in Photoshop if you had it.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Wow, what a difference. I am somewhat of a camera amature I will have to try that. Of course there will be a different hockey jersey in my shot JP:D .

[JPnyc]

Well the lighting might not be as yellow at the swamp, I dunno, I haven't been there. That was really what prompted all of this. I saw other people getting great shots at MSG and mine were so sepia toned that it bugged the bejesus outta me.

I'm a complete photog novice. I'm just fleshing this stuff out for the 1st time. This is the 1st even moderately decent camera I've ever owned, and the 1st digi.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I have apretty decent digital I bought for my wife and It takes great pictures at the swamp:D . Really though I have had the same yellowish problems in the past as well and I am defintiely going to try this setting. By next season my shots will be taken at the brand spanking new arena in Newark.

[JPnyc]

Newark? Never mind the cam, bring a gun :D

[Logo-Mechanix]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, that's funny, you know I got robbed once right outside the garden. They are saying they are ahead of schedule on the construction of the new arena, the best part is I could take the train from right near my house if I wanted to. I know there has been some complaints coming from Newark about the arena deal but that area really need some revitalization and I think something like this is a good start.

[JPnyc]

Everyone is robbed everytime they go IN the garden..............................right at the ticket booth.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I think that happens at every ticket booth, the garden is no exception.

[JPnyc]

Which digi do you have?

[Logo-Mechanix]

It's an Olympus 6 mega pixel I bought it for my wife about about a year and a half ago. I'm not sure off hand which model but it's a great camera, does everything but make great meatballs.:D

[JPnyc]

Is it a compact or closer in body to a DSLR?

[morea]

ooh, all that, and it's LOUD, too! ;)

[Broacher]

Man, I thought this thread was going to be about underwear laundry tips.

But then, what's wrong with gray, really?

[Red Kittie Kat]

...... nothing .......

As long as that's they way you bought them :D

[morea]

actually, gray is better because you can proof against it, n'est-ce pas?

HA! I kill me!
I could really use a hand though... :D

[Logo-Mechanix]

Is it a compact or closer in body to a DSLR?

It's got the body shape more like a DSLR, it's a great camera and takes beautiful shots. We really have not scratched the surface yet on what it can do, all the pictures I post of the kids are taken with this camera. Just keep in mind my wife and I are amatures, my wife is alittle better than me having taken a couple of photography course. I always tell her, yeah but that was before digital cameras, it usually earns me a punch in the shoulder.

[JPnyc]

Need to get an enforcer. I hear Donald Brashear is looking for work ;)

[Logo-Mechanix]

I tell ya that is one mean looking big dude. I would not want to run into him in a dark alley on a cold night, or a warm one for that matter. My favorite enforcer of all time was Tony Twist that guy was tough as nails.

[JPnyc]

He sure is, however I loathe that aspect of hockey. I'm hoping that with the more stringent rule changes, that neanderthals like Donald will no longer be needed.

[FrontFrog]

As a commercial photographer, I would advise you to ALWAYS shoot in your camera's "raw" format. This will give you the option of going back later and making any color balance changes you may need. If you use a Tiff or Jpeg format with a white balance correction you have limited the amount on ifno you have to work with from the start. I would use your camera's processing software or Photoshop to do any color work. In some cases you may have several light sources in one image. You can process the image severral times with different balaces and combine layers to get the ideal image. There are three different color light sources in this image: http://www.greenfrogphoto.com/images/portfolio_arch5_fs.jpg. My manipulating the color balance for each source the sceen looks natural.

[JPnyc]

Not all cams shoot raw though. The fuji f11 is a compact, it doesn't shoot raw format. I think you have to at least have something like a Minolta Dimage a200 for that. That's about the level where you start finding raw format.

[orkaknos12]

Just in case you're interested, Auto white balance is really only good to use if you're always changing your light source and don't mind spending a bit of time with photoshop later. If you want consistent white balance, use a grey card and measure the card. You can get warming and cooling cards too for a little extra style. If you're just quick shooting, at least choose a preset WB mode that suits your environment. Pretty much every photographer I've talked to detests the Auto WB mode on all but the highest end multiple sensor type cameras.

-Jon

[JPnyc]

I wasn't even referring to the auto WB setting, but to the specific presets for different types of light. The incandescent one (the only 1 i've used besides custom and auto) is useless.