Does the camera make the photographer?

[Drazan]

This is a little bit of a peeve of mine. I got into a debate with someone recently who doesn't think that I'm a photographer because I don't (and can't afford) a SLR or DSLR. This person only has had a DSLR for less than a year and yet now calls himself a photographer because of it...and trash talks anything that I take. And his DSLR is a Minolta which retails for about $600-800.

I'm an artist by passion, and a photographer by hobby. I don't think I know any less than he does and I've studied with real photographers who know their stuff. I've studied: light, position, shadows, rule of thirds, etc. But yet, according to him, I'm not a photographer.

My cameras are a Fuji s5200 and S5100. The issue isn't if I take good photos, because I know I can (when I try) - even through certain limitations of the Fuji cameras. I don't consider the Fuji s5200 a point-and-shoot camera.

I'm reworking one site to be my portfolio site, but if you want an example of my photos I can upload something.

So this person calls himself a photographer, has a shiny low-end DSLR and doesn't take 1 iota of critique from "lessor" mortals. Some of his photos are good, most have blowout white spots. And he trash talks my photos because they are my photos with the Fuji. OR maybe it's the fact my roommate is a photographer that runs an agressive sport site with 2.2million page views a month.

More fustration than anything.

So I'd like to hear your opinions.
Does not having a DSLR mean that you are not a photographer, or really does it matter much on equipment (past the whole point and shoot cameras). But even then the lack of money shouldn't matter if your passion is photography, just don't expect to take wedding photos with a camera phone. ;)

<<steps off the soapbox.

=)
Jade

[urstwile]

I think that better cameras can certainly help make better pictures. But...

That being said, I think that just having a good camera alone will not make you a photographer, if you don't already have a good eye and sense of composition.

Why are you even friends with this person? :confused: He sounds like an elitist snob, to me. Just go with what you can do and what you feel in your heart you can do, stop paying attention to him.

[Red Kittie Kat]

There is nothing I can add to that .... Urstwile hit it on the head .... I say time to "delete" him as an aquaintance or friend whichever.... no need to deal with anyone who lives to put you down.

[Kool]

So I'd like to hear your opinions.
Does not having a DSLR mean that you are not a photographer

Absolutely not. Your friend is an idiot. :cool:

[Drazan]

I wouldn't call him a friend....more like a co-worker...who just so happens to have talked the boss into hiring me based on my small portfolio. I've only worked for this company since Feb 06 and it's my first major design position. so...Catch 22 anyone?

merlinstouch.com if you are interested in seeing his work. And yes, he did get hired as the webdesigner before I came along.

Mine will be at http://www.jadeadragon.com (soon -like this week, but the voting public said to keep the header), but you can see my product shots for my chainmaille jewelry at http://mailleweavers.com (did I mention I have lots of interests?) Other odd bits can be found at http://drazan.com and my photo dump at http://www.jadeadragon.com/photos/ (dig through the mess and you'll see a few gems in there ;) )

For the first 4 months all the coworker talked about daily was taking photos of "pretty girls" as he put it. I call them boob shots. There's nude photography that can be very beautiful, then there's the boob shots. While not necessarily porn, not exactly art either. I think he goes for glamour pinup shots that just come across as cheap. Too bad too, I met one of the models who also works for us once in a while. She's a very nice, down to earth, college girl who's definitely got a "look" about her.

Everytime I bring out my camera to take a shot of this or that for a project or online, he tries to shut me down. The boss actually had to intervene just on the sheer stupidity of the situation and since then the shop's point and shoot (granted it is a nice point and shoot) has been used for most of the pictures. It's like if you are going to talk the talk - etc. I so wanted to say "If you are a photographer, then go and be one". But I didn't.

Ah there's other stuff, but professional curtisy prevents me from posting too much, despite my urges to vent. After all it's only a matter of opinion.

=)
Jade

[Red Kittie Kat]

Looks to me like you are doing a fine job. If boob shots are his thing then great..... it can be said anybody can take a picture of boobs .... He is a condescending ass if you ask me. Don't feel obligated to him for putting in a good word for you ... if he did that he feels you have the credentials to do the job. Sounds to me he just wants to make himself look better in front of others.... he is the one with the issues here... not you.

[urstwile]

Some people just have a need to bring other people down so that they stand out as being superior, I've worked with many people like that. Just ignore him, stand your ground when you need to, and certainly, don't let him convince you that your lack of as fancy a camera as he's got makes you an inferior photographer. From what I could see, you aren't.

[budafist]

No, it is more about talent, but but it does help to have correct equipment.

Just like it would be hard to do decent graphic design work without the design software. It's doable, but the better the gear, the easier it will be for you.

[Silence04]

i wouldn't say a better camera makes a better photographer... but it certainly is a bottleneck.

[willy_flew]

I would say better gear in general expands a photographers horizons. I have A P&S and get some pretty great images. Here are some of mine here (http://www.photozo.com/album/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=10064&sl=w) not great but I have fun and I get a few wows here and there. My gear consists of the following

Kodak P850 point and shoot
quantaray filters: circular polarizer, uv haze and my favorite is a +3 close up filter
quantary flash
sd card
pod sand bag tripod
quantaray tripod
walmart bag

all in total I have around 600 bucks invested.

More importantly is working with what you have and becoming confident with basic photography. Then when you decide its time to upgrade you will be confident with your gear, know what you find important in an image and select a camera you are confident with.

I didn't find Merlins images all that impressive.

Loved your dragon flies though

[willy_flew]

Incidentally my avatar was shot with my point and shoot. Yes thats mine eye

[budafist]

And it depends on what kind of photography you're doing. If you're doing macro, a point and shoot may have a macro function, but without a macro lens it's just not as good.

It's wasting your talent really not to have the best equipment you can get.

[PrintDriver]

Depends on how you define 'photographer'.
My take on the matter is if you don't know what film is, you aren't a photographer. You're a digital artist. :D
But my work makes me biased.

The camera does not make the photographer. Film or digital. Digital images, depending on what they are used for, can be shot with anything that will record the image clearly at the proper size for final output. Now whether that shot is well lit, properly composed, interesting, and appropriate is all up to the skill of the photographer. And it is the skill that matters.

[willy_flew]

well put

[Drazan]

I believe that the Fuji is one of the best non-DSLR's out there. I've done some amazing things with it. I've managed to put up a few photos from last weekend.

http://jadeadragon.com/mnren06.php

I'm digging trough the archives right now, I've taken over 30k of photos this past year. (And I call my interest a "hobby".)

[Samakimoto Graphics]

I have a respect for the work that goes into getting good shots from an SLR, if you start out with the SLR and can manage, then you will appreciate the positive outcome of shots from a DSLR.

I would say it's how well you use either, because I have taken lousy shots on a DSLR because I did not respect what it is capable of. Also, the SLR has endless possibilities for interesting abstract shots that a DSLR hasn't - do more research.

[Loopy]

The camera doesn't make the photographer, although it helps. Certainly if your using a disposable point and shoot... chances are you aren't going to have great photos, with that said... I've seen some good photos with disposable cameras where the photographer worked with the limitations of the camera.

You are a photographer. Take a bunch of shots... tell him you've been using your buddy's SLR, see if he catches you. :p

[Loopy]

I have a respect for the work that goes into getting good shots from an SLR, if you start out with the SLR and can manage, then you will appreciate the positive outcome of shots from a DSLR.

I would say it's how well you use either, because I have taken lousy shots on a DSLR because I did not respect what it is capable of. Also, the SLR has endless possibilities for interesting abstract shots that a DSLR hasn't - do more research.

I agree. The same goes with any camera. Know what your camera is capable of , what its limitations are and how to get around them.

Drazan, You could pick up a cheap SLR - a good one to start on is the Pentax k1000, my mother gave hers to mine and I still use it. I've seen them in used camera stores for about $100.

[cornfed]

I shoot with several different cameras. While the composition may be the same, the quality of the photo definitely goes down with the quality of the camera.

I've gotten into the horrible habit of shooting with this little digital my mom gave me for my birthday. The shots are pretty crappy, but its so easy! I find myself ignoring my film cameras even though they take better pictures. Here's a link to some of my photos. All of them were taken with either Fuji Velvia Slide film, medium format film or 35 mm film and were shot with either a Canon AE1, Mamiya RB67ProS or Grayflex Century Graphic Special. I really need to update it.

http://courtneyfuller.com/site/Templates/template1.aspx?tabindex=6&tabid=74

[Broacher]

Drazan,

As you might already know, that's the only digital I own too (the Fuji S5200). I don't pretend to be a pro photographer, but I have read reviews by a few who also love the overall convenience/flexibility/quality that this camera offers--especially if you have just the room to pack one small camera.

I have used mine a lot for creative work. It's low-light sensitivity is especially useful for getting quick, useable natural lighting shots -- not to mention just better 'candid' shots at events because I can use it without flash and still get good stuff.

You're right though. Good photography isn't all about equipment, but because there are so many creative advantages you can gain with extra photo gear, you can see why many people think that this is THE major point of difference between pro and am. Just like many people still believe that the only difference between a professional graphic designer and themselves is the quality of the software/hardware. Only, in photography, the difference is still very much a VISIBLE difference. I don't mean 'visible' as in the output, I mean by the association that more gear VISIBLE, the more professional the appearance. To a lot of people, anyways.

On the other hand, one of the great things about shooting with a 'non-professional' camera is that you've got less baggage-- both figuritively, and literally. This can give a lot more room for the creative side to play in the shooting. And coming across as an 'amateur' is sometimes a very BIG advantage in a shoot. I don't mind letting others take over for a few shots, for instance. It helps them relax and gives me something to 'give' them in exchange for the shooting. I'm not so sure anyone touting a $2,000 camera would have the same level of comfort in doing this.

A few years back there was this 'let's get creative' photo project for high school kids started by some pro photographers in Toronto. It was a simple idea: give a wide variety of interested kids a free Fuji point-and-click 'disposable' and see what comes out. The 'best of show' shots were not only technically very useable, they were just great shots.

[steve-o]

Your coworker does not shoot professional quality work. I checked out his portfolio, and unforunately he doesn't have an eye for lighting, composition or detail.

In almost all of his shots, there are way too many distractions, his depth of field choices are questionable, lighting is just plain bad (lots of harsh shadows and hot spots), his perspectives are boring, and his crops are illogical.

Bottomline is don't listen to a thing he tells you.

Good luck!

[carter the artist]

You can use any tool and that doesn't make a professional.

I use a samsung point and shoot, and make nice photography (www.freelancingdesigner.com)

Some people only use the cheapest cameras, and they are professionally paid photographers.

[(gra-ph!c-D'sig-nah)]

I would say better gear in general expands a photographers horizons. I have A P&S and get some pretty great images. Here are some of mine here (http://www.photozo.com/album/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=10064&sl=w) not great but I have fun and I get a few wows here and there. My gear consists of the following

Kodak P850 point and shoot
quantaray filters: circular polarizer, uv haze and my favorite is a +3 close up filter
quantary flash
sd card
pod sand bag tripod
quantaray tripod
walmart bag

all in total I have around 600 bucks invested.

More importantly is working with what you have and becoming confident with basic photography. Then when you decide its time to upgrade you will be confident with your gear, know what you find important in an image and select a camera you are confident with.

I didn't find Merlins images all that impressive.

Loved your dragon flies though


I have to agree....Merlins images were not all that great! Willy here hit what I wanted to say....It is not what you use, but how you use it. ummmmmm yeah, i guess thats it!

and....willy, i don't want to go overboard with this...but, your work is nice! I really like your still lifes-

[PrintDriver]

Whoa. Steve-o is right.
Is this merlin guy gonna get all excited about all these hits to his site? At least they aren't coming from here...:D

[willy_flew]

I have to agree....Merlins images were not all that great! Willy here hit what I wanted to say....It is not what you use, but how you use it. ummmmmm yeah, i guess thats it!

and....willy, i don't want to go overboard with this...but, your work is nice! I really like your still lifes-

Thanks you !!!