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*the girl* ryan
09-25-2006, 03:58 AM
so, i am still doing work for the dojo... next big thing to redo is the BC (attached so you can see) the white card is his existing original card.. the color is my 'revamp'
i'm not big on doing 4 color gloss BC's but it is what he wants. also wants his photo on.. not negotiable
opinions---
budafist
09-25-2006, 04:12 AM
Sorry, haven't been following your project so far - is the white bc the redesign or the original? or the back?
typographics
09-25-2006, 04:20 AM
this is a situation where the original business card looks better than the redesign.
*the girl* ryan
09-25-2006, 04:25 AM
well, the white card was his original.... is the 4 color with his pic really worse than the white card?!
budafist
09-25-2006, 04:36 AM
Well, if it makes you feel better, there's plenty wrong with the original white card.
Serif fonts to me are better used for corporate situations. This is not one of those situations. You could use a really fun font that has a slight asian feel to it for this.
The american flag portrait is SUPER TACKY! I don't think any card could look good with that image on it...
There too much going on on this card. Make the background solid black, reduce the logo size, Make the font at the bottom a "cooler" font, change details font into a san serif and we got something to talk about.
*the girl* ryan
09-25-2006, 04:48 AM
well, the american flag portrait is an american karate thing... lotsa dojo leaders with it... ill try incorporating some of your ideas
I hate when people want a photo of themsleves on their bc its never a good plan. I also think the info on the card would look better in a sans serif font just to simplify it a bit as there is way to much going on in this card.
*the girl* ryan
09-25-2006, 05:10 PM
anything else? ill agree with the san serif font for the info... but using an 'asian' font seems very 'chinese food restaurant' to me. unless you have any suggestions.
Jackimalyn
09-25-2006, 05:20 PM
i realize you probably don't have a choice but why the photo of himself???? you should accent it with a nice drop shadow and a deep bevel...
activeseven
09-25-2006, 06:59 PM
I believe the new version to be too busy. A business card should just state name of the business, who you are and how to contact you.
It should be quick and easy to read. The more you start "busying" the card the less effective it becomes.
Danger_Mouse
09-25-2006, 07:07 PM
Maybe do the card two sided? One side with his pic and info the other with just the graphics?
reuber1
09-25-2006, 07:19 PM
Man, that photo ruins it big time. It sucks it has to stay; is there a reason why they insist it's there? I know they say it's non-negotiable, but honestly, it's not helping them any. If they don't have a solid reason on why it should be there, then they really ought to second guess it. I mean, who cares what you look like? I'll see them in person; the biz card is to tell you who someone is, what they do, and how to get a hold of them.
Have you tried playing off the look of their site? If they are keeping their site design, I suppose you could go that route, although honestly, the site design doesn't seem to encompass a martial arts studio (looks more like a "techie" futuristic look to it).
Excellent critique as always, typo.
Drorain
09-25-2006, 07:21 PM
this is a situation where the original business card looks better than the redesign.
This is a situation where typorgraphics likes to be an *******.
oh did I say that outloud?
Well instead of just saying my opinion let me say the type choice is much better, and the card is a lot more appealing. I would bring the UMA line above the tail simply because it looks like you forgot to adjust the layers rather than incorporate the two elements together. The photograph of the guy, if needed is nice and small. The typeface is a lot more appropriate to, the thick/thin ratio looks more asian than the simple typeface shown first.
I like the vector work, and I'm guessing that the guy is requiring his picture be on there...oh well with that one constraint I think it looks good.
*the girl* ryan
09-25-2006, 07:44 PM
ahh, thank you... ok, i will work on those points.. up til now i thought i was special for not getting any shit from Typographics. i am taking everything they have and doing a n update (i started with the logo which you can compare on the BC's). just trying to give the place a more professional look in exchange for some time on the mat :D
he feels that the picture association when he speaks to someone on the phone and then sends them infor on the dojo makes them feel more comfortable knowing someone when they arrive to the dojo. i am ususally with you guys.. i hate the 'Lester the Molester' shots used on Realty and Mortgage cards, but this is really a dojo pic... very common.
resdog
09-25-2006, 08:19 PM
Honestly, I like the redesign. As with all design, there are two schools of thought: traditional and non-traditional (my terms, not theirs). Business cards do provide information, but let me ask you: If you are looking for a dojo (or anything for that matter) and you have several business cards in your hands, and all of them are white background with sans-serif fonts with text only and a small logo, and then there is one that is the one *the girl* ryan designed, which one would draw your attention? IMO, it would be the 4-color glossy card. Me, I hate text-only cards, especially since you can do so much with a business card; it's like a mini-design. That's just my opinion. Good work, *the girl* ryan on the design.
CamarotaDesign
09-25-2006, 08:29 PM
The old logo looks better if you are considering that the fundamental, anal-retentive principals of design are the way to go.
For this though, I think the new design is a better fit because of who would be interested in taking karate lessons. Usually kids that are hopped up on cartoons and action movies right? I mean, sure sometimes you'll get the grown man like Kramer joining a dojo, beatin up all the little guys, but its usually 6-12 yr olds. They would much rather join the dojo that has a cool soosh in its BC, than the one that uses white space relatively well.
Other points- yeah, ugh, hate the photo on the front, maybe you can go 4/4 and stick it on the back along with a list of styles and methods taught, maybe even a cool diagram of a karate move sequence.
Also, the Serif font has gotta go definately. Im thinking a more trendy looking sans serif, like Eurostile or perhaps even a bahaus variation is the way to go.
I liked your logo redesign though, good job considering the constraints and non negotiable elements to include.
steve-o
09-25-2006, 09:00 PM
The photo can do nothing but harm. If the guy in the picture makes the decisions about what goes on the card, then I don't care how he justifies it, this is a vanity issue. Vanity and martial arts aren't compatible.
I do think the new card is an improvement. It sets a tone and has an emotion-evoking quality that the first one doesn't.
budafist
09-25-2006, 10:43 PM
Vanity and martial arts aren't compatible.
What do you mean??? Don't you watch Kung Fu movies??
*the girl* ryan
09-25-2006, 11:28 PM
I mean, sure sometimes you'll get the grown man like Kramer joining a dojo, beatin up all the little guys, but its usually 6-12 yr olds. They would much rather join the dojo that has a cool soosh in its BC, than the one that uses white space relatively well.
I don't see what this has to do with anything. I am 27 and I don't practice martial arts to beat up the little guys, but to know how to defend myself in a sh*tty situation. If you can't just give a crit without putting in your own little quips of something you know nothing about I suggest you don't say anything at all. I am looking for some clear concise critiques like activeseven, D M, Drorain and resdog gave.
Thank you for the points you gave, but you are also critting an activity I hold in high esteem.
reuber1
09-26-2006, 12:28 AM
I don't see what this has to do with anything. I am 27 and I don't practice martial arts to beat up the little guys, but to know how to defend myself in a sh*tty situation. If you can't just give a crit without putting in your own little quips of something you know nothing about I suggest you don't say anything at all. I am looking for some clear concise critiques like activeseven, D M, Drorain and resdog gave.
Thank you for the points you gave, but you are also critting an activity I hold in high esteem.Aw, I thought I gave a clear concise critique. :(
Camarota: Is your knowledge of martial arts training is based soley on television? There are many adult martial artists. For example, Tae Kwon Do is an olympic sport. Adults train for it day in and day out, just as other atheltes would for any other olympic sport.
Ryan: Maybe what he meant was that the portion of your demographics that you are trying to appeal to are the 6-12 year olds. We older martial artists are going to choose a school based on the repuation/skill/knowledge of the instructors, not flashy graphics.
I love the redesign of the logo. Maybe choose a different color background so you don't have to use the white glow on it. I think that the glow cheapens it. Also, a different font is a good idea. I agree with others who have said that a san-serif would work best for the body copy. For the UMA, there are oriental looking fonts that don't scream "chinese takeout" (links at bottom). Some of these may need tweaking for readablity. Also, the swoosh probably won't work well behind any of them, but it really wasn't adding much to the design anyway.
If the picture has to stay, then it has to stay. Just out of curiosity though, what are his reasons?
Asian fonts that don't scream "chinese takeout":
http://www.dafont.com/font.php?file=konfuciuz&nb_ppp=50&af=on&text=United+Martial+Arts
http://www.dafont.com/sumdumgoi.font?nb_ppp=50&af=on&text=United+Martial+Arts
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/profonts/chaweng/
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/blambot/musashi-bb/
The Gloves of Death
09-26-2006, 02:05 AM
not sure if anyone has mentioned it but the "A" in arts is obscured.. perhaps something can be done about that?
I think otherwise it looks fine, if it's what he wants it's that he'll get. =)
*the girl* ryan
09-26-2006, 03:11 AM
awww rueber.. i love you too hahaha!!! thanks riya thats exactly what i was looking for. of course the client LOVES the way it is. i am going to use this info for the brochure design as that progresses too! i am so uncomfortable with 4 color work. i absolutly love simple, vector logos with 2-3 color designs. he showed me other stuff he likes which is similar to this and i want to give him what he likes (to a point) hopefully i can find a happy medium!
Glad to help, and good luck.
reuber1
09-26-2006, 01:02 PM
not sure if anyone has mentioned it but the "A" in arts is obscured.. perhaps something can be done about that?
I think otherwise it looks fine, if it's what he wants it's that he'll get. =)YES!! Another Iowa member, with quite possibly the coolest name ever.
awww rueber.. i love you too hahaha!!! I keed. I keed. :D
The Gloves of Death
09-26-2006, 04:37 PM
YES!! Another Iowa member, with quite possibly the coolest name ever.
:cool:
what up .. what part of Iowa are you from?
reuber1
09-26-2006, 05:31 PM
Eastern...Bellevue/Dubuque area.
CamarotaDesign
09-26-2006, 06:59 PM
sorry to offend you guys. But my experience has always been that family martial arts centers are predominantly younger kids. Sorry the reference to the seinfeld episode didn't make you laugh either. Maybe this wasnt a family martial arts center. I dunno, Guess you guys take it very seriously, as you should, the way of the fist and hand.
Thorn_9
09-26-2006, 07:01 PM
2 cents drops...
Always design to your primary demographic...
...picks up 2 cents when no ones looking...
PersonasBinar
09-26-2006, 07:03 PM
I'm sorry but the new version reminded me of the guy in Napolian Dynamite.
Kyokushinkai practitioner here.... bare knuckles full contact Karate.
*the girl* ryan
09-26-2006, 09:10 PM
I'm sorry but the new version reminded me of the guy in Napolian Dynamite.
Kyokushinkai practitioner here.... bare knuckles full contact Karate.
how so?
I think it's the flag.
http://www.fbcgalt.org/images/napoleon%20kip%20and%20rex%20kwon%20do.JPG
PersonasBinar
09-26-2006, 09:58 PM
Is there a kenji for the style he teaches...i would use that.
Is the dragon part of the logo?
KingVance
09-27-2006, 08:52 PM
have you thought about enlarging that photo and cutting it out where its just his head and shoulder on the side of the card?
im not a big fan of that photo just kinda floating there
i think the lesson here is to teach the sensei the error of his ways and why instead of letting the power ranger do the design decisions
its kind of one of those 'you do your job...ill do mine' kind of things.