Screens, Tints & Mixing Inks! Questions

[Jeffm]

I am creating a 2 color ( Light Blue + Black) logo which uses screens of those colors at 60% and 30%. I'm worried about the screens being too faint or spotty. So I decided to use a third spot color, a very light grey to help those problem areas by mixing with the screens. How do I go about figuring out which combination will work best? I know you can mix inks in Indesign CS... but how about Illustrator? Is there a way to soft proof it? Also is there some sort of guideline as to what a safe screen would be? Like never go below 75% of a spot color on a screen?

Thanks.

[PrintDriver]

Oh gawd.
color mixing in program...

I have absolutely no way to color match a color mix.

And being large format I have always hated screens of colors. At least yours end in 0 and would be in a pantone screen percentage book.

Why can you not just use a 3rd spot color that is 100%pms but is close to the screen color you want? Especially if you are thinking of a 3rd color anyway. The purpose of screens in offset printing is to avoid having a 3rd ink color.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Keyare]

Yoik. Need more info.

Can you show us the logo?

What method are you getting it printed (silkscreen or offset?'

I REALLY don't think you need a third colour unless you're going silkscreen with a REALLY big screen frequency.

MORE RED!!

[dakels]

the lower the line screen/dpi you are printing, they more sensitive it will be to low % screens.
At 300lpi, a 10% screen looks fine.
At 100lpi, a 10% screen may not look so good and possibly not even show up depending on how sensitive the plate material is.

I dont know of any general rule of thumb because it has too many variables (lpi, press, platemaker, colors, medium, size of the screened area, etc). Usually anything over 20% will show up ok but there is one smart rule to use when screening spots. If you can, try to use a solid instead of a screen. Instead of using say a 60% black, maybe try picking a PMS grey at 100%. Also, I dont know of any good way to accurately show spot color mixes on the computer. Its a very difficult area that doesnt have alot of software support since most companies like Adobe cater more to offset CMYK standards. One thing I have done in the past is use the mix tools in AI but its not very accurate. (create 2 colors then overlay the shapes, select both items and use the overlay filter. It will do its best to simulate an overlaying mix which is what happens on press. Problem is that this is all very inaccurate and depending on your materials you use, inks, drying methods, substrate, etc this can be very different then you thought. Best way to see an accurate representation of the final is to get one... pay for a press proof.

[PrintDriver]

This is the first time I've heard someone say screens (tint percentages) are bad for press runs. Seems most people use em to avoid an additional color plate.

In digital imaging, no plates, doesn't matter. A tint IS a separate color with all associated matching charges. Overlay filter will usually produce very disasterous results. No way to match the mix in digital. Kinda like the issues with transparency overlays.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[dakels]

'This is the first time I've heard someone say screens (tint percentages) are bad for press runs. Seems most people use em to avoid an additional color plate.'

Unfortunately most designers dont realize why a gradient to 0% looks like chopped off crap either. :P
Since the person stated they were just using 2 colors anyways, might as well make the densest part a 100% PMS instead of a screen if you can. You're not adding a color there but getting a nice rich solid instead of a screened value. Also, alot of the 1-2 color work isnt of the highest line screen and you will really see the dot pattern or moire of a screen. Color also blends differently at different resolutions on paper. Like I said, maybe it's an option, maybe its not if you cant find a good matching color.

[PrintDriver]

I don't do offset press work, just large format digital. Hate percentage screens with a passion. Dislike large gradients cuz as the percentage approaches white the CMYK formula breaks down and all kinds of wacky colors happen, especially from Illustrator. And like you said, anything below 10% is a little iffy.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Keyare]

Guess Jeffm figured it out all by hisself.

Oxygen's for losers.

[PrintDriver]

Nah, his printer probably did for him.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing