So, what you all think about Foley?

[D-Frag]

I heard the deaths in Iraq right now are over 100 troops a day, the worst it has ever been. I think the government is doing a little "Hey lookie over here...seee" while they scramble with other issues. It could be even bigger then that, we could be nearing a new 9/11 and they need the eyes and ears of the media elsewhere while they drudge up there filth.

Anyways, I just think this whole Foley scandal is a cover up for a something bigger and much worse. After all, Bush is really not favored, and lord knows another "disaster" on our own soil would put the fear, and the drive to vote into the taxpayers. What you all think?

[Broacher]

Memories.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Congressional_page_sex_scandal

See, the difference is that the Democratics don't just talk about it-- they do it! Okay, Studds had to go to Mexico to make it legal, but man-- can you imagine calling a 17 year old loverboy to your press conference to be sure that everyone understood it was consent, ignoring the pleas for resignation, and then getting elected for another thirteen years?

The other thing I've noticed about the Foley story is the language. It's funny how many times the word 'disgusting' has been banted about. It makes me wonder if we would have heard that word as much if this had been a heterosexual scandal.

I say ditch the page system as it is and replace those kids with matronly, stern-faced middle-aged moms. Especially ones who can give the 'evil eye'. I bet that would go a long way to cleaning up the act.

[cornfed]

I don't understand sexual attraction towards a child. I just don't get it.

I think his actions need to be dealt with swiftly and sternly. I also think the release of this story was politically timed. That makes our children political pawns.

I could care less if he was molested by a clergyman as a teen. It doesn't make his actions any less wrong. I hate it when people who have targeted children claim its because they were targeted as children. To me, thats all the more reason to know better. Shame on all of them for turning this story into a political game rather than one that looks to educate parents and children on child safety and the fact child predators can look like the guy next door.

[Broacher]

What if...

somebody invented a satellite that would map all the sexual activity and sexual THINKING between all seventeen year olds and people over the age of, say 25. Do you think that the results would be entirely restricted to a small group of child molesters?

What Foley did was harassment. And an abuse of a publicly trusted power. But what's weirder is that what if one of those kids picked it up and they followed through (like Studds, for example)? In that case, it wouldn't have been illegal, just morally questionable. Even the age of consent remains a morally questionable one--judging by the wide variation in America for the AOC laws.

And you can bet if it was a seventeen year old girl instead of a guy, that this whole thing would have a LOT less moral spin to it.

Now, if that same satellite had Sexual harassment vision-- wow. That'd be an even bigger picture.

Absoute power.... I'm not sure many of us are us uncorruptible as we think we are. We're just never going to have to worry about being tempted.

I knew there was a good reason God made me unattractive.

[D-Frag]

the whole age of consent thing is BS imo, i mean come on, less then a hundred years ago it was okay for a 12 or 13 year old girl to marry a 20 year old. this still holds true in some cultures around the world. and i do agree with you broach that it has alot more spin because it was 2 men. maybe the courts were getting to close to gay marriage and this is a spin off of that. either way, i smell a rat

[MD]

And you can bet if it was a seventeen year old girl instead of a guy, that this whole thing would have a LOT less moral spin to it.
People hate hypocrites.
That is one of the main reasons that everytime the republicans get in trouble the media goes after them. Party of God my ass. I doubt there would be any less moral spin to it because of the simple fact that Foley was Co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus.

[rainbow2bryte]

I think he needs to be beaten very badly!!!

I'm soooo sick of not only THIS guy's story, but even the 'average joes'
that get a slap on the wrist for shit like this.
Child molestors, rapists etc.

Why does everyone seem to look the other way?

Why does it go on, like it's 'OKAY'???

Grrrr....

and to the poster of this, YEAH, you can pretty much gaurantee all we are told, are lies and stupid shit you see in the media is good for re-directing attention to how they're gonna get us all killed.
we'll be Russia soon....

ahhh! i can't believe i just put this in writing!
if i'm not back on this forum next week, i had an 'accident'. ;)

[MD]

if you haven't read the IM transcripts yet ... NSFW
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/BrianRoss/story?id=2509586&page=1

This guy is such a hornball - that it is kinda comical.

[Broacher]

Martha Washington was supposedly 18 when she first married. Though, there's some dispute that she might have been even younger.

Certainly one of the greatest hypocritical Washington sex scandals of all time had to be when the world discovered three years ago that the longest serving senator ever, Sen. Strom Thurmond (South Carolina) had fathered a child with a sixteen year old black servant living in his parents house when he was 22. The same Strom Thurmond that built his middle career by rigorously supporting segragation and opposing the Civil Rights Act.

[Loopy]

I don't know the whole scoop as I'm not so up on all the us scandals, but I did just finish reading the transcripts.

Did he lie about his identity to the boy?

[reuber1]

I don't know, I kind of agree with Bill Maher said. This kid is 16, and let's face it, 16 year olds aren't exactly 'innocent' this day and age. They know what they're talking about, they know what's going on (although I haven't read the transcripts just yet...looking forward for a laugh). Though yeah, this guy is one Grand Old Paedophile.

[cornfed]

I agree that they're not innocent, but I don't think they're necessarily prepared to handle an adult situation such as this.

Why did we end girls getting married when they are 12 and 13?

[D-Frag]

its still the age of consent in the parts of Ukraine, used to be in Sweden too, but I think they just raised it. parts of Africa its even younger

[Broacher]

'Adult' situation. Remember when 'adult' was not such a derogative term?

The teenage pregnancy rates also vary state by state. Has more to do with sex education support and funding than morality. It's 'God's will' to the extreme right. Or, to put it another way, 'Inshallah'.

[Broacher]

BTW, the AOC is 14 up here in the frozen north. You can't legally drink a beer until you're 5 years older than that, but there you go. At least our teenage sex is mostly sober.

[MD]

Martha Washington was supposedly 18 when she first married. Though, there's some dispute that she might have been even younger.

Certainly one of the greatest hypocritical Washington sex scandals of all time had to be when the world discovered three years ago that the longest serving senator ever, Sen. Strom Thurmond (South Carolina) had fathered a child with a sixteen year old black servant living in his parents house when he was 22. The same Strom Thurmond that built his middle career by rigorously supporting segragation and opposing the Civil Rights Act.

The average lifespan for a Women in the 1800's was only like 55 years though. 18 years is about a third of her lifetime.

Wasn't Strom also a member of the KKK?

[frankster]

16 is the age of consent in the UK and when I remember what I was like at 16 I was certainly capable of dealing with sexual attension and knew that when someone significantly older was hitting on me then I should be avoiding them as they were probably a bit weird in the head to be hitting on a 16 year old. My parents would have flipped out if they knew about some of the aged old perverts that tried it on with me though, even though nothing ever happened.

[Malaclypse]

I find it terribly funny, and terribly sad that people aren't placing the blame in the right place. People are blaming the democrats (oh how politically convenient is this for them), the bush conspiracy (oh they must be hiding something worse), alchohol, the clergy. I blame Mark Foley. Only he is ultimately responsible for his actions.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what the age of consent is, what the age or sex of the page is, what past sex scandals happened, etc.

He used the position of trust the country vested him with to manipulate people for sexual favors. He should go to jail for a very long time. All his peers that new about it and didn't stop it should probably be ushered out of their jobs.

[MD]

I find it terribly funny, and terribly sad that people aren't placing the blame in the right place. People are blaming the democrats (oh how politically convenient is this for them), the bush conspiracy (oh they must be hiding something worse), alchohol, the clergy. I blame Mark Foley. Only he is ultimately responsible for his actions.

You forgot one - Rush Limbaugh now blames the pages for Foleys IM's
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/05/limbaugh-blames-pages/

Back in these days you could call Sears and order a refrigerator on the phone. I had a teacher living up the street and it was the biggest thrill in the world to just call and order a refrigerator and watch Sears deliver it to an unsuspecting teacher and his wife, and far stranger things than that. But we always picked out adults that we just thought were odd or weird, and it would be fun to make fun of them, and I don’t think kids today are any different…

But you know as well as I do that young kids make fun of gay people. They make fun of the way they talk; they make fun of the way some of them walk and so forth. Who knows what the word around town about fellow Foley was. Who knows? We all know that young people gay bash. Young people do a lot of stuff. They don’t have the maturity to understand this kind of stuff…

I tell you, folks, you’ve got this page out there; you probably have a bunch of pages laughing and making fun of Foley and the way he comes on to them, and he’s gay and so forth, so they egg him on and so forth….

[frankster]

Christ on a bike! Rush Limbaugh is a knoblet! I've been so enraged by this nonsense that I am going to try and ignore it altogether now.

[cornfed]

I heard some politician on npr the other day say that "All gay people are preoccupied with sex." My jaw dropped. I couldn't believe he said something so inflammatory on national radio. I know it's a free country, and free speech, but theirs also political suicide.

[Broacher]

As a Canadian, in a system where there are at least three or four major federal political parties, I'd be interested in knowing how many Americans would be voting for a viable third party, if such an option existed today.

[doubting_thomas]

As a Canadian, in a system where there are at least three or four major federal political parties, I'd be interested in knowing how many Americans would be voting for a viable third party, if such an option existed today.

I would if they actually were a viable party and not some tool like the two
major parties we have now. As it sits now I vote, then I need to go home
and shower to get rid of that dirty feeling.

[reuber1]

It's all like choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

[frankster]

I think unfortunatly we are screwed as voters due to the fact that people who *want* to run a country are probably the last people on earth who should be allowed to. Ho hum. I am impotent in such matters being in the US on a temporary visa.

[MD]

I voted for Nader in the last 2 presidential campaigns, but it is almost impossible to get on the ballot as a third party candidate and it is even harder to get public funds or a spot on the debates. Over the years the 2 political parties have reformed election laws to keep it a duopolity. They have redrawn district maps along part lines to guarantee party success.

In order for a third party candidate to succeed in this country they would:
1. have to be independently wealthy (obscene amounts of money to waste)
2. Would have to have a a favorable household name
3. There would have to be hatred of both political parties (vote for reform)
4. They would have to appeal to the middle in order to steal votes from both sides (Third party votes are usually considered wasting your vote)

It would not be enough to have good ideas, you would have to be well spoken and charming while appealing to the common man - Like a third party JFK. I don't know if I will see it in my lifetime - too many hurdles to overcome.

[PersonasBinar]

I think if there EVER were a viable third choice....something very very bad would happen to them. Or they would mysteriously become entrenched in scandal somehow in the lead up to the election. This Foley nonsense, I agree with D-frag. It has all the classic markings of the political shell game. Worked for Bill with Monica, remember those embassy bombings in Africa where not a single American so much as got scratched, hours before Bill was to goto a hearing on the the whole "did you schtoop her mess"

copied from below on the thread****"I heard some politician on npr the other day say that "All gay people are preoccupied with sex." My jaw dropped. I couldn't believe he said something so inflammatory on national radio. I know it's a free country, and free speech, but theirs also political suicide."

Unfortunately not when everything is controlled by neo-conservative christians. Everything is fair game.

It would be very cool to be able to blame Foley as the sole scumbag in this, but on the news last night, apparently they have know about this for years!!! Foley himself blames the alcohol, and the priest that did him 20 years ago. Good thing he's an advocate for children's rights. hmmm accountabilty...no thanks .... I blame the system , man :lol: OH NO I'VE CAUGHT...QUICK GET MY SORRY ASS TO REHAB!! But he won't be charged, for trying to seduce minors or any other felony that would have landed you or I in prison for 50 years.

[Riya]

I think unfortunatly we are screwed as voters due to the fact that people who *want* to run a country are probably the last people on earth who should be allowed to. Ho hum. I am impotent in such matters being in the US on a temporary visa.

Exactly!
I can't find the reference, but in one of David Edding's fantasy novels, he described an island with a unique form of government. The leader was elected from among the lords of the island. Upon winning the election, all of the lord's assests, land, propertity etc. were liquidated and put into the public fund. During the leader's term in office, the country was run on that money. Taxes are set at a fixed rate and not changable. At the end of his term, the funds are drained and given to the leader. This insured that the government not only stayed within it's budget, but usually operated at a profit. No $500 hammers here. The overall result was that people generally did not want to be the leader. Canidates spent elections telling the populace exactly why they weren't quailfied to lead.

Probably would not work on as large a scale as the US, but it would be interesting.

[Riya]

It would be very cool to be able to blame Foley as the sole scumbag in this, but on the news last night, apparently they have know about this for years!!! Foley himself blames the alcohol, and the priest that did him 20 years ago. Good thing he's an advocate for children's rights. hmmm accountabilty...no thanks .... I blame the system , man :lol: OH NO I'VE CAUGHT...QUICK GET MY SORRY ASS TO REHAB!! But he won't be charged, for trying to seduce minors or any other felony that would have landed you or I in prison for 50 years.


I think it's time to clean house. Anyone who knew about this should have reported it/done something about it. If they didn't they don't have the ethics neccisary to run this country.

[morea]

I heard some politician on npr the other day say that "All gay people are preoccupied with sex."

wow. :confused:

[morea]

sadly, the people who WANT to be in power seem to be exactly the people who SHOULD NOT be in power.

How can you win in THAT situation?

[Riya]

Fling a magic sword at an ususpecting young peasant, and he rules until he either dies or becomes corrupt at which time another young peasant is given a sword to either assume the throne or kill the "tyrant". But that won't work because we all know that "distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government".

[D-Frag]

I think unfortunatly we are screwed as voters due to the fact that people who *want* to run a country are probably the last people on earth who should be allowed to. Ho hum. I am impotent in such matters being in the US on a temporary visa.

no were screwed as voters because the "code" that runs the polling machines, is so secretive and hidden, that no one even knows how it works except for the people who are in the know...like presidential candidates with lots of dough to throw around.

And even if we were to get a third party candidate, like JFK for instance, who is to say the dude will even live past his first few weeks in power, again, JFK.

I have been reading an interesting book on the CIA, basically says they are the new world order, and have been for some time. They choose who is the next president, not only in our country, but in basically ever country around the world. Its sad that the majority of people in this country don't read enough, and do enough research on who is actually running things. I would go as far as to say (and ive said it before) but its time for another civil war, unfortunetly, we would lose, the govt just has to much power and technology to ever even let that happen.

[MD]

no were screwed as voters because the "code" that runs the polling machines, is so secretive and hidden, that no one even knows how it works except for the people who are in the know...like presidential candidates with lots of dough to throw around.
Have you been reading all of the articles swirling around the net in recent weeks about the diebold voting machines? Some pretty scary stuff.

Video of Diebold machine being hacked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JESZiLpBLE)

5000 Diebold machines hacked in Georgia election (http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2006/9/21/15233/0027)

Diebold's back door security problems (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_david_di_060723_the_diebold_bombshel.htm)

D-Frag with all of the conspiercy theory / anti government books that you have read you must be working your way to the top of the government watch list ;)

[D-Frag]

im sure i am, i just make sure when i buy those books i only use cash. and i never rent from the library anymore since 9/11.

its scary to be scared of your own govt. thats what they want, but i try to not let it get me down.

[MD]

rent from the library anymore since 9/11.
Right after they passed that law I went and borrowed 1984 :D

[reuber1]

One year later after all that, I had to take a course in Islam to fulfill a Religion credit. I got to buy four books on the subject, and had to download the Koran and the Hadith, not to mention visit various sites on the subject...good thing I opted out of chemistry the following semester.

[D-Frag]

hahahaha, can you imagine? your hitting red flags all over on that one

[MD]

Pack your bags, you have just won an all expenses paid trip to club gitmo!