Inside Bleeds in InDesign CS2 & Pantone

[migo]

Guys, I am being as careful as I can and paying attention to any pro tips. In any case, one of the printer services I am looking to require PDF.

When I export to PDF and click on all "Printer Marks" and "Use Document bleed Settings" I get the result of partial bleed over from one page to another.

It just looks weird. I know that when the two actual pages get printed they will be on same piece of paper, front and back and facing.

My concern is when I export the entire document for the printer am I doing something wrong OR is this the way it should be?

Next question: I have all my photos and graphics as CMYK. I am using a Pantone color for the font. Does that make any difference in sending to printer or will that be considered a spot color causing other problems for me?

I know I am not the pinnacle of clarity but hope you can help me with my questions.

Thanks in advance, migo

[budafist]

In your colour swatches, click on your pantone colour and change it from spot to process. Now it will be printed in CMYK. Much cheaper!

I am assuming you are printing a multipage document?
Have you imposed this or are the printers imposing it for you?

If it is only 1 sheet of paper to be printed front and back and folded like a card, then you should set up your design as facing page spreads and save your pdf as facing page spreads. You will get a 2 page pdf. Outside and inside.

If you are doing more pages, then it is also a good idea to work in spreads, but when you are saving the pdf, save as single pages so that the printers can impose them.

Hope this answers your question! :)

[rickself]

Hey migo, when you export your pages, the way I prefer them in my shop is with all marks OFF. Keep your bleed set to .125 (or whatever you have) but uncheck the crops, registration, all that crap. The printer doesn't need them. And when you have a lot of pages, when I impose them and factor in the creep (or shingling) the marks that you leave on your pages may slowly start to creep into the work.

So leave the marks unchecked, the bleed on, and change that spot color to process in the ink manager or the color palette.

Edit: You COULD leave page information on so I know what page number is which.

[migo]

Thanks a million Budafist & Rickself.

When I go to the printer’s website and try to understand what they require I think it is straightforward that is until I start thinking, grin.

The Lnyda & VTC training sites and books that I have followed all have me using facing pages, which I prefer.

But to avoid public humiliation, in an effort to get my question answered on inside bleeds, I downloaded one of their free templates.

Their templates do not use facing pages.

Example, on their template each page is titled, ie. F-coveri, f-coverii, b-coveri, b-coverii, page1, page2, page3 etc.

My booklet/brochure currently has 18 pages total, including covers.

I hope I am making sense?

Below is quote from printer email to me which contradicts their templates I think. BUT is consistent with what I have been told.

“The PDF that you send should be 18 pages. All l pages in your PDF file must be in the proper sequence: outside front cover is page one, inside front cover is page two, etc”

I have done all this work using facing pages and getting close to being done.

Also I am assuming that the imposition is done by the printer. Did I ass-u-me wrongly?

[rickself]

Yep, do the pages in order. Front cover, inside front cover, etc and back cover is the final page. You didn't say if the cover is part of the 18 pages and if it prints on the same stock as the rest. If it's the same stock, it's 18 pages with cover (or self-cover). If it's different stock it's 14 pages plus cover or 18 pages plus cover.

And yep, let the printer do the imposition.

[migo]

“Yep, do the pages in order. “Does that mean NOT use facing pages but rather the way the template was that I downloaded and described?

“Front cover, inside front cover, etc and back cover is the final page.” That is the way I have it now using facing pages but reading above makes me think I should not be using facing pages? I am sorry but very confused over this issue still.

“You didn't say if the cover is part of the 18 pages and if it prints on the same stock as the rest.” I plan on using heavier stock for cover.

“And yep, let the printer do the imposition.” That one I got and understand. grin

[rickself]

The Cover will be page 1 of the Indy file, the inside and facing page wil be 2 and 3. If you haven't done all the set up, you may want to do single pages. But this way you won't be able to see the facing page interaction or have crossovers.

IMPORTANT- if the book is going to be saddle-stitched (or stapled) you NEED to have your pages in increments of 4. So if you're going to have a layout plus cover (14 pages plus 4 for the cover), you'll have to increase the 14 pages to 16.

[migo]

The Cover will be page 1 of the Indy file, the inside and facing page wil be 2 and 3. If you haven't done all the set up, you may want to do single pages. But this way you won't be able to see the facing page interaction or have crossovers.

Whew...This is exactly the way I have it using facing pages! That still gets me back to square one with my orginal question concerning bleed from one facing page to the other. I could send you a pdf of two pages so you might see my brain drain?

[rickself]

If you have it built in facing pages, just run your bleed to the center... but be precise. Use your measurement toolbar to show that the edge is indeed at 0.0. If you don't measure accurately at the center, there will be a white line going down where the pages come together.
This is probably why they ask that it not be in facing pages, so that your bleed will indeed bleed. The software I use automatically deletes the joining edges. So it may look funny on screen, but the printer will make it all come together.

[jimking]

When you export to pdf, click off the spread button. This will give you single pages instead of spreads. The single pages will have bleed around them. When the printer imposes, the inside bleeds will be knocked back to the bind and will not overlap. If for some reason in your single page pdf the bleed from the oposing page crosses over it means that you need to pull back your bleeds on your Indy document to the spine and not let it crossover to the next page and then make your pdf.

[urstwile]

At the risk of sounding simplistic, can you call the printer and ask them these questions? That's the best assurance that you will give them the PDF exactly as they require. Not to discourage you from asking questions here, but every printer has their own workflow, some in common with others, of course, but it's always safest if you're unclear to speak with someone (not a CSR by the way) who can tell you exactly what they need for you to provide to them.

[migo]

You are correct and I agree and have communicated by email which is what they asked me to do. Their equipment seems first class and their references seem ligit. They were closest to my budget. The fact that I am new makes this harder than it has to be and I know that. If you ask me to build 1,100 homes like I did last year, I can do that blind folded. I am learning and like this so far.

[urstwile]

I guess I'm just old-fashioned. I like to actually talk to someone.

But maybe you could spell out all your questions that you've posted here in an e-mail and get clear answers from them.

[migo]

urstwile, It appears I have offended you in some manner. If I have it was due to ignorance and not through arrogance.
I frankly feel like you are baiting me. I thought I had come to a place where I could get naive questions answered without getting caught up it some blog beating.
No one here, especially you, is obligated to answer any of my questions, I would think however courtesy is a virtue we could all use.
In my business people who are not professional ask me some silly questions sometimes. I try to be kind in my answers. This is a hobby to me. I come here to learn.

[urstwile]

Um, okay, I'm not sure why you think I'm baiting you, nor did you offend me.

I was simply trying to answer your question in the way that I thought best. I'm not trying to discourage you from asking questions. I just know that if I were in your position and was unclear about a job getting ready to go to print, that my most assured answer would come directly from the printer that I was working with.

Everyone on here will try to answer your questions to the best of their ability, in fact, since Jimking and Rickself have chimed in, you've got two really experienced professionals offering their advice.

My advice is different because I'm not a printer, so I offered up an answer which is an answer I would offer to anyone getting ready to send a job to print. If I were in your shoes, I'd make sure I could talk to someone at the printer.

Sorry if you feel that means I'm baiting you. I'm just trying to make sure that you get exactly the result you want from your project.

[migo]

Thank you urstwile. I apologize if I misinterpreted your intent. My wife got the same sense. We both were wrong apparently. Your advice is welcomed and I will do. In the meantime I am learning all I can from those who know much more than I ever well on this subject. I noticed SD is your locale. I have a old surfer buddy who works at the Tribune there. I went to Mesa College there in 1972.

[rickself]

Everybody here is here for a reason, to help others out with our knowledge and experience...and because the Seahawks are really sucking today!

But really, migo, urst is one of the more knowledgable contributors and I appreciate what she has to say about Jim and myself. And from the pdf you sent me, I'd keep going the way you are. But turn off the marks when you send your final file. Then can get in the way.

And if I ever had something printed on a t-shirt it would say "Call your printer first!" Set up a repoire with a voice on the other end. Then, heaven forbid, if something doesn't print the way you intended, you' have an explanation.

[urstwile]

Well, no harm done, thankfully. I've been doing this for a very long time, and it's just been my experience that every printer has their quirks, so if I'm working with a new printer, I always try to speak with someone there who's in production, so I can confirm that what I send them will be okay. Reprinting things because of confusion is an expensive proposition, and yes, I guess I'm just very careful about not having that happen. There are some standards, but every printer has a slightly different workflow.

We do a majority of our work with one printer, but on occasion, when the project is lower budget or appropriate to bid out to another printer, we will use others. I've had problems when I assume that all printers have the same workflow, so I guess I'm just overly cautious. My production manager always gives me a little question mark look when I ask to speak to someone at a new printer who's in production, but I always ask, and I sometimes find that what's okay for one printer is not okay for another. Thus my advice. :)

I'm a NYC transplant living in San Diego, for the past ten years. What does your friend do at the Tribune?

[urstwile]

P.S. And thanks Rick. :) Very kind of you to say.

[jimking]

You're right urstwile, one printer may want two page spreads because they don't have a digital workflow. They may only have an old 18" AGFA film imagesetter. Where as the other printer has all the bells and wistles.

[migo]

And if I ever had something printed on a t-shirt it would say "Call your printer first!" Just as long as they make them in bell bottom T-shirts,grin.
What does your friend do at the Tribune? I believe he is an editor. We live near Hilton Head, SC so long way from SD.

from the pdf you sent me, I'd keep going the way you are.
So I guess the bleed is going both sides then just get cut off and no harm.
All my books, online training say the same thing about "speaking with the printer" I just thought some of my questions were out of the norm for a printer?
Thank you all.

[urstwile]

The key thing is to get a hold of someone who's actually going to be working on your job, or might be, not the CSR, who often doesn't know a lot about the terminology. I always try to get a hold of someone who's actually in pre-press production at the printer, not the customer service contact.

Yeah, I'm anal! What'cha tryin' ta say? :D