rights to my digital files

[anneg]

I work as designer at a small sign shop. We use sign-design software to produce vinyl graphics. Our biggest client is now requesting that we give them all of 'their' files so they can start their in-house department (and practically putting us out of business..)

I am looking for some kind of documentation or written reference to help back up my claim that I own that artwork, not them. I know that it should have been relayed to them when business relations began, but the previous owner of the business obviously neglected this aspect.

I do not want to damage the relationship with the client, and we will lose their business in any event, but I would like to at least go for selling them the files rather than giving them away.

Any advise?

[D-Zine]

Welcome to the GDF anneg! :o)

Didn't they already pay for the artwork tho? This topic is always confusing to me. We have been over it a lot in here but I am sure you will find some great input from the people on here and maybe I can get a better understanding of it all myself!!!

[uncle carbunkle]

yeah, but didn't they pay for the artwork (delivered) and not the working files? that's my issue. they've gotten what they paid for, right? as far as i'm aware, you don't have to clean out your system and give them all your files that led up to their end product.

if you do turn over files though, there should be a fee. you wouldn't do anything else for free for them, right? so, bare minimum is labour and costs, but i'd slap a surcharge on there AND i have issues with them asking for the 'nuts and bolts'. saying that, if you had an expensive piece of pottery or jewellery made, i'm sure you could buy the mold off the artisan, (so as to avoid reproduction), but it really should be something that's documented before hand.

but this is all just hearsay, because i don't know the legality of the issue. let us know what happens - i'm sure others will advise.

...Ruffa' dan ruff, tuffa' dan tuff...

[BuckarooB]

Seems, unless stated otherwise, that rights remain with the artist... Payment is for usage -

always best to spell this out in advance, though. Of Course Hindsight = 20:20

Try simply submitting the invoice when asking the preferred delivery method. Wouldn't hurt to consult appropriate source first and that isn't always a general practice attorney. Takes a specialist, I'm afraid.

BB

Disclaimer - the above statement is provided for educational purposes only - BB is not responsible for any negative results from using the info provided. Praise is naturally welcome, though.

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are.

[PrintDriver]

When a client wants all their files at the end of a job we call it is an Archiving fee.
Someone has to do all the work of retrieving the files and burning them to disk and time ain't free.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Zine]

Now that makes sense to me - what PD and Unc said about charging a fee for archiving. That crap can take a long time depending on ALL the art you have to gather for the client. There should indeed be a charge for that!!

[BeautifulFreak]

The files and the copyrights are property of the sign shop(if you are a paid employee) or property of the designer(if you are a contracted designer). The client paid for the creation of a sign not the electronic files used to create that signage. It is up to the owner of the files and copyright to decide if the files will be given or sold to the client. If you know you will not be getting anymore business from the client weither or not you sell them the files or not and you have no use for those files for any other clients application, then sell them the files(for what you think those files are worth and your time to gather those files) and the copyright making sure to get in writing: the transfer of copyright, the right of both you the designer and the sign shop to continue to have the right to display the artwork in both your portfolios, and a line or two about no longer being responsible for the upkeep and archiving of those files and make it clear once the tranfer is completed they are responsible for the use of the files(no calling you up and asking advice). Remember don't give them the fonts, stock photos, or clipart that are used in those files, you do not likely have the legal rights to distribute the licensed files in such a manner. If giving those files away will hurt your business in anyway you have the right to say no to selling the files. Hope this helps. bf

[dakels]

Do what a lot of people do… send low res jpegs :P

While that is an option. It’s basically what has been said by the others. You own the art, not your client. The client does not pay for the files, they pay for your time and in this case a final material piece. Unless they establish in a contract that they own all files, you own it. I write up SOWs (statement of work) and make it clear that we (the client) own the files and artwork and that our service provider creates. If I don’t do this, getting files from a company is next to impossible.

These things should be cleared up though in a general state of work document that all clients sign. Most people in this business have one they fax out to clients. Without any signatures anywhere, intellectual property rights can become a bit grey. It’s a common pitfall for a lot of designers.

Seriously though, you are not wrong to send a bunch of low-medium res flat JPEGs.

[PrintDriver]

Ah ha ha. And wait till their new sign shop sees those files and screams bloody murder...
I see a lot of these low-res jpg's, gifs, or flattened tifs, from end clients who come to us direct rather than thru their designer. 'But this is what the designer gave me to use. What do you mean they're no good.' I would hate to be on the receiving end of the subsequent phone call to the designer...

I think you need to come to some kind of mutual agreement if at all possible before the issue escalates into a lawsuit. Ask THEM to show you the contract that states they own the art. Charge em up the yang for the files and call it an archival fee. Get the transfer in writing that you no longer own the files, they are being removed from your system and should you be required to do any future work regarding said files there will be an additional charge to reactivate them. Send only the files, no supporting paperwork or PMS chips or hard copies. If you wanna be real nasty, convert the files in Illustrator to RGB color equivalents instead of spot pms. Then change em to CMYK. That'll really mess up the numbers.

That being said, I have been known to call another sign shop to ask for a logo and I've had other sign shops call me. It's all done with the end client very aware and in the loop that we are all talking to each other.

And I just reread your initial post. Don't take this the wrong way. Is the design work you did actual layout and logo creation or was it converting a provided logo and layout to your sign program? It's all vector files, right? Or do you use the combo printer/plotter type deal so images are included that you may have bought rights for? Curious what these files encompass.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[dakels]

btw even when I recreated client logos I did not own, they still do not own my working file unless I was contracted for specifically that reason, which I never was. I only recreated the design for a better looking output. The output they own and have rights to, nothing else.

For printing, some clients ask for the printing plates so they can take a job elsewhere. I calculated time + costs, then doubled it. Many clients bitch and moan but what do I have to lose that I am not losing already? Besides, my SOW clearly states they have no rights to art files or plates.

When I did logos, general rule of thumb is to charge alot more (3-5x) then you would for a single piece. I would also release a vector and raster art file but i charged them up the wazoo for it. If small clients get scared off then sometimes they arent worth it. They need to clearly understand what is being given. Its not just payment for work, it is also savings over time since they won't have to pay some other person to recreate what you made. It's not just some design, its branding for the company that they will use all over the place. Also, do you're homework. Do market research, get a feel for what your logo is representing. I always felt it was my responsibility as a designer to represent the client's needs and wishes as best as possible and not just make something I personally thought looked cool.

[omnimutant]

Personaly I would'nt even sell it to them. Just let them no that they have no right to that information and you wont give it up. They are basicly Underminding your work, by bringing in someone else to simply set up what you have already worked hard on. They will probably continue using what ever files you provide them for a long time to come, and you pretty much did all the ground work for them. They want to bringin a new designer, then he/she will just have to start over. Ultimatly the new designer would probably prefer to start fresh anyway, rather then to try and decifer someone elses idea, and methods. Thats My opinion anyway /emoticons/icon_cool.gif