Need help with scary, angry customer

[strangejuice]

I recently made up a flyer for a customer to look exactly like his previous years flyer- same sizes- everything. After a million and one changes he was happy. I emailed him the proof to scale and one version to his resolution to scale and told him to check and double check it before going to print. He was happy with it and sent me his written approval of the proof via email. He said it was right to go to the printers.

He picked them up today (it was 40, 000) and I got a very angry phone call saying that I stuffed them up and the text he asked me to change (which I do not recall) wasn't changed and is too small to read and I have stuffed up his 40, 000 flyers.

I may want to mention that he is scary and knows my address.

There is no way that I can afford to have them reprinted for him, nor does he have time to get them reprinted- nor do I think I should have to after he has written me his approval.

But what do you guys think- as I have never experienced this before? Where do I stand?

[SharkFinStudios]

Do you have a contract? Did it specify once the customer approved the final and it went to print that no more changes could be made?

[strangejuice]

No official contract. I only told him over the phone and via email. The only official thing in writing I have from him is him saying "Yes the proof is OK for print". I suspected that this would be enough. He didn't request any more changes afterwards.

[htmldude]

if you got a written approval from him saying they were ok, then it's his fault. i'm sure he knows he messed up and is probably trying to scare you into paying for his mistake. if you've already been paid i'd tell him to go get bent and never deal with him again.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Contract? If the actual printed flyer matches the version he approved that would be the end of it as far as I was concerned and I certainly would not be reprinting them, at least not out of my own pocket. As far as him knowing where you live, if he threatens you the first thing I would do is report it to the police.

[strangejuice]

I have been paid. It certainly wasn't worth the money. It took forever. I'm more afraid of him confronting me in my driveway or on my doorstep. I don't want to give any clues away because he might google me and find this but he kick my arse while wearing a blindfold.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Yeah but then you could sue the crap out of him and have him locked up so you would actually have the last laugh. Besides isn't that why they make aluminum basbeall bats? For just such an occasion.

[Drorain]

this is why it may be best to keep a po box as the official address for corespondence if your working out of your house. it clearly was approved so offer him apologies, but you really can't do anything more for him. Do check and make sure the printer didnt change anything in prepress, use a pt ruler to measure the type and such. Who knows, maybe the printer did something.

the man may be scarey, but he can't do anything to you, laws stop that...he's in business but I'm sure he knows he needs a clean reputation for people to deal with him. If he does harass you, keep records, recordings maybe and notify the police. If he has a problem he could take you to small claims court, but the judge would likely dismiss it since you have emails as proof. if all else fails contact a lawyer

[Drorain]

Yeah but then you could sue the crap out of him and have him locked up so you would actually have the last laugh. Besides isn't that why they make aluminum basbeall bats? For just such an occasion.

reminds me of a will farrell quote...

"Hand me the bat Gil"
"We're going to play a little game called quite time, I'm going to walk up and down the aisles...and you don't look at me. If you do I'll hit you right square in the teeth."

[strangejuice]

Oh man it's just a bit too much for me. My main worry was he approved a proof I sent to him via email. I couldn't print it off and hand it to him because we didn't have that much contact. I know for a fact he did however, as at one stage he came around with it in his hand and showed me where he wanted me to add something.

So he was well aware of what it looked like printed off on his crummy printer, but my proof I sent him was an email. Even though he was well aware that it was being printed in A5 size, he could have openned up the email in which I had imbedded the A5 proof and could have zoomed in, or looked at it in a resolution that was much larger.

This is what I am a little worried about.

[cornfed]

What kind of proofs were they? PDF's, jpegs, what file type?

The reason I'm asking is because I ran into a similar situation a few months back. I sent pdf's to a cd manufacturing company. They sent back final pdf's for me to proof and it looked like they had changed up a bunch of type, messed with some pics, etc. After I called and chewed them up and down a tree for messing with my final files, it was discovered that my pdf viewer was in fact reading the files wrong and had changed up some characters and skewed some pictures. I'm not saying that's what happened to you. However, it is entirely possible that what you sent him is not what he saw. I don't think that would make this your fault but it was certainly a big lesson for me. My relationship with the girl I chewed out is still under repairs!!

[strangejuice]

I checked the proof at the printer aswell - they sent me their own proof. Identical. It was a jpeg and it was embedded in the email. I have also seen his printed copy that he brough around a few proofs earlier where he had circled a couple of things he wanted moved in biro. The same text there and the same size.
I am quite sure that he saw the right thing! I think he just changed his mind in hindsight.

[CamarotaDesign]

Uh oh. well, I tell you what, email isnt always the best form of Proofing. It is possible that something happened like what Cornfed mentioned. At work we make all clients print out the proof, sign the paper, and fax it back before we go to print. It protects everyone
.
Is the problem just because the client is an anal retentive douche, thinking he knows design? and is unhappy that it doesnt look the way he wanted it to, Or is it actually messed up to a point of being unuseable?


Either way, I'd say: "Tough, dude, you signed off." You got the money, you dont need to do business with someone like this any longer.

[cgmpowers]

Never, ever, ever...ever...EVER work without a contract.

Never, ever, ever...ever...EVER work without having the customer sign off (physically sign off) on roughs and finals.

Join the AIGA & GAG. They have resources (including attorneys) to help with clients who break contracts. However, without a contract and or signed off proofs/finals then its probably a small claims court case and your word against his.

Chris

[strangejuice]

I am not sure what it looks like. I imagine it is him being picky. Who knows, maybe it is too small. I made it to his direction. I know for a fact that he saw the proof correctly because I have seen it on his laptop in it's early stages. He never had a complaint with the size then.

But you are right, I will have to find out more ways to cover my butt. The only problem is this guy is Bruce Lee. Well, an equivalent.

All I know is he saw the proof- I then got him to type above it his approval which he did. He also told me it looked perfect over the phone.

A week later he says hes picked it up and "The text I told you to change isn't changed!!! It's too small to read!! What happenned!!"

[strangejuice]

Never, ever, ever...ever...EVER work without a contract.

Chris

Yes now I agree. I assumed that an email from me explaining that it was the final proof before printing and him saying yes I approve it send it to print was legal document enough. It has dates, times and everything else.

In regards to physically signing off the proof- looks like I better get myself a fax machine.

At this point in time I am not sure whether or not I am in the brown with this one.

[patkennedy78]

I'd say start writing all this down, out side of this post. What you remember taking place, what you think happened, how proofs were signed off on. Also, somone mentioned before, document anything he does that is harrassing, document any phone calls you make to him. EVERYTHING, just in case. Best of luck.

[LeftBrain Artist]

I would tell him that the imperfections of the flyer are like a finger pointing to the moon, don't focus on the finger, or you will lose all that heavenly glory. If he continues to get snippy with you, shout at him "Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it? Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it? Defeat does not exist in this dojo, does it?" Then lick the shards of broken candy on the back of your hand, raise one foot in the air, extend it, and hold it there for 30 seconds while you go "Uuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"

Or email him something like this:

Tan Po (or whatever his name is),

The recent course of events regarding the development and production of your advertising materials has prompted me to write this letter. Attached is a copy of the pdf proof you approved for print, which you will see is exactly what was printed - this business transaction has been conducted exactly as it should have been. I believe in the future, this current state of unpleasantness can be avoided by performing a press check, which you will be required to attend. I had deemed it unecessary to do so for this particular project as it was my understanding that cost was a significant factor, and doing a press check would incur a cost that you would not be amicable to paying. Furthermore, please free my girlfriend, pets, and my crippled brother from your fortress of evil. Thank you in advance for your patience, support, and understanding in this matter.

[budafist]

Goodness leftbrain, that's a bit graphic!

Yes, it's his fault if he's approved it to print.

Be nice about it, let him know that you are very sorry that he has found fault in the flyer, but that you have his approval (date, etc) and that there is really nothing you can do since he gave final ok.

[daSnarf]

haha I can only imagine someone just copy/pasting that last paragraph :)

[LeftBrain Artist]

I suppose so. I'll edit it a bit. If anybody thinks they're missing out on anything just watch Kickboxer.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I like LBA's idea best, besides it was freakin' funny.

[jimking]

Heeheehe, hahaha. If everything is as you say it is young grass hopper, then wait for his punch line which is coming as soon as you flinch. I've seen this happen before. Did he pay you in full before going to press?

[Pica]

here's how your client would see this statement:


Be nice about it, let him know that you arevery sorrythat he has found fault in the flyer, but that you have his approval (date, etc) and that there is really nothing you can do since he gave final ok.

There's a fine line between being polite and being a doormat. Be VERY careful about using the words "I'm sorry" in a situation such as this because this sort of client/customer usually hears only those two words, doesn't listen to the rest of the statement and takes it as an admission of fault.

I worked in event management for a few years and was the person who had to tell event attendees they couldn't use flash/video photography and had to tell them they couldn't bring in their outside food, etc. I learned very quickly that those words often turned a bully into a monster because they hear that and take it as an invitation to argue the rules or simply ignore them. Going with a strategy such as what LeftBrain said (minus LB's ending that is :p ) will be much more likely to get your desired result.

What you need to do is:

• establish a professional tone
• explain the situation as you see it
• state how the situation will be resolved
• leave it at that / don't argue / walk away

Instead of saying "Excuse me sir — I'm sorry, but I need to ask you to turn off your camera flash," my script became "Excuse me sir — I'm XXX, the event manager. Our policy prohibits the use of flash photography so I need to ask you to turn off your camera flash." I'm a 5'4" blonde girl and this worked 99% of the time even when I was dealing w/ the big scary rabid fans. (The other 1% of the time was exciting, but that's what security guards are for.)

Saying "I'm sorry" would have implied that I thought it was a dumb rule, or that you think you're at fault for the misprinted fliers. You're not sorry because you're right, so don't let politeness open yourself up to further bullying.

[budafist]

Ok, don't be sorry. I need to be more assertive. I'm little and chinese...yes, people often go over my head...

[strangejuice]

Thanks for that- I absolutely agree. Plus saying I am sorry admits liability.

[jimking]

Pica hit the nail on the head and yes saying you are sorry is the flinch I was referering to. A discount, a freeby or a handout is what this guy is shooting for. It would seem to me however, if he paid you in full before going to press he would not attempted to do this. That's why I ask that question.

[strangejuice]

Well I haven't heard from him for a couple of days now after I told him that he signed off the proof and all the changes that I had made prior to that were at his request, so either he's realised he's in the wrong or he's gathering up a posse` of world class fighters to flykick and decapitate me in a single blow then use my still twitching body as a pinata.

[budafist]

Let's hope it's the first one then...

[CamarotaDesign]

Thanks for that- I absolutely agree. Plus saying I am sorry admits liability.


If you say sorry like this:

"Well, I'm sorry you are a jackass"

Then you arent accepting liability. :)

[Trick54]

I hate customers who try to do shifty's like this.
What I have learnt to do is confirm all changes via email and keep those emails so you can go back through them later if you have to.

[strangejuice]

I tried to, however he kept insisting on calling me in response to every email I sent him. About 15 times a day actually. It was the hardest $250 I ever made

[LeftBrain Artist]

Some people are just natural a-holes. They get by their whole lives, not necessarily beating up people, but intimidating others into thinking they will. And a lot of people, rather than confront them, would just rather let them have their way, not just out of fear, but also because its simply easier than trying to argue with a brick wall. Hell, I've personally had a number of situations that I've put up with because I just didn't think it was that big a deal. But that only justifies their inappropriate behavior.

If professional diplomacy doesn't work, I'd try going bat$hit looney on his a$$ in a phone call. Make him think you're crazier than he is - you'd be surprised how much fun that can be, and how easy it is once you unleash the hounds. If, after that, you think he may be putting on his karate gi and running over to lay the smack down on ya, best of luck, you're on your own cuz I'm outta here!

[Drazan]

Something that I experience in a different line of work (different life it seems).

Bullies are 99% all bluff. and the 1% left over is usually afraid of retailiation.

Crisp, clear, professional attitude and don't back down.

"Sir, you have clearly indicated the final proof was to go to print and they have been printed to your specifications. Any changes or reprints now will incure extra charges that must be paid upfront, plus additional rush charge. "

Don't say "sorry".

If need be, push back. "Sir you signed the final proof to print. If you wanted additional changes made you needed to indicate those changes before signing off on the proof. I can make the changes and get them reprinted, but their will be extra charges and a rush charge to get them to you."

Make it their fault, or else they will walk all over you on every single job.

Always get a contract! We have had a person at work who does "it's just a small job" and doesn't get contracts, guess what the job is still sitting on the "done" table a month later.

There's quite a few threads on this board about contracts. Even when I was freelancing I did contracts and lettered out every tiny detail and limits on the project.

And all these things will actually gain you customers as the word spreads of your professionalism.

And if he so much as steps a foot on your property with an intention to harm or harrass - make him absolutely aware that his behavior will not be tolerated. If he continues, pick up the phone and call the police. If he harms or threatens one hair on your head, sue him for his entire company's worth.

I'm 5'3 and have walked up to men three times my size and made them appologize to me about some-such an incident.

[strangejuice]

You were right. I never heard from him again after I stood my ground.

To follow up on the story- I went in to my Burger King round the corner this evening and found the flyers there on display- they looked great. They were just fine- the print wasn't too small at all. I showed my father whom has very bad eyesite and he read aloud to me the text that was supposedly unreadable.

Now I feel I should be sending him threatoning emails/calls asking for an apology and a thankyou for the extra effort I put in.

[daSnarf]

Dont push your luck ;)

[strangejuice]

Hehe I guess not! Time to move on!