Web Design Position

[mar1300]

Hey all,

When it comes to a web design job (dealing with the front end stuff… examples XHTML, CSS) do they train you and guide you in the right direction??? I have a web design interview and I truly believe I have a lot of potential, but my XHTML, and CSS is very basic.

So basically are companies willing to train? Or do you have to be an advance web designer right from the beginning??



Thanks,

[mattbing]

Hey all,

When it comes to a web design job (dealing with the front end stuff… examples XHTML, CSS) do they train you and guide you in the right direction??? I have a web design interview and I truly believe I have a lot of potential, but my XHTML, and CSS is very basic.

So basically are companies willing to train? Or do you have to be an advance web designer right from the beginning??



Thanks,

I think companies are always willing to train if you have talent. what are your web skills? Do you know Flash basics and Dreamweaver fairly well? If so I think applying as a web designer it shouldn't be a problem, if they're looking for a developer then might be a little different.

Just be honest with them, you don't want to get into a position you're not qualified for, the stress would not be worth it.

[mar1300]

I know Flash pretty good...my action scripts are pretty basic...and I know dreamweaver pretty well...

[PrintDriver]

DW?
You don't code?

[mar1300]

DW?
You don't code?


not really..... i just know how to use the program I'm familar with the functions...as of right now all i know is basic xhtml example (<p> <br /> h1 h2 ) things like that.

[Drazan]

Front end stuff = GUI

Depending on the company you will need to know how to adapt your design to existing code and template system. If you don't know how to code properly you are probably wasting time.

If the company wants you to design for customers in a team - you'll still need to know code.

If all you are doing is producing pretty templates for other to implement then the basic skills will get you started.

If you have only "played around" with programs then no you are not a web designer, IMO. HTML, CSS, and even XML are not that hard to learn. Some reading, some practice and walla - you have the basics. Add an actuall programming language like PHP or ASP and then you can call yourself a true web designer.

Most companies won't train you if you don't have basics down. If you kown enough to do the job with room to grow - some can appreciate that.

Part of the reason that a lot of companies are requiring degrees in field is because of the advent of the "self learned who think they know more than they do". It has also become harder for old school coders to get real world jobs without a degree.

Not to put you down, but think real hard on what you can and cannot do. Then ask yourself if you fit the job or if you are wasting time yours and thiers. The company is looking for a production person not an intern or trainee.

I'm all for self learning and growing. But I've also torn apart and rebuilt way too many "beginners" dreamweaver sites over the past couple years and can be a little biased.

I'm not a big fan of dreamweaver or wysiyg programs. I think that it's too much of a crutch compared to real programming. But I also know that it is a tool to those who do know the code can properly implement designs with it. Unfortunately not many recognize that distinction.

If you want to go into web design as a profession, learn first then apply to jobs. I'd rather see you go in with a bang and start creating a good reputation than going in and having word spread that you are not very good. Damaging not only the company you work for, but yourself as well.

If you apply yourself you can take your "fair" skills and actually have "good" skills in a manor of just a few weeks to a couple months.

But then that is just my opinion and can be taken at will.
=)
Jade
(who's been web coding for 12 years)

[razuel]

I barely know HTML and can design and build web sites 10x better than some people I've seen.

With the tutorials that are out today, it's really not that tough in my opinion.

But I realize tutorials wont always be readily available, so learning to code is a must for me.

[mar1300]

When it comes to designing web pages do you design it in Photoshop first then slice it up and then hand code all the images in???

For example something like this: http://www.magurno.com/

[urstwile]

I dunno, I think if you're asking a question as basic as that, you're probably not qualified for this job, unless you can talk them into training you. I'm not trying to be harsh here. Just that you seem to need more HTML skills and such.

The fact that you've asked if you'd be qualified hints to me that you think you wouldn't be.

I would go for the interview anyway, be upfront with them about your experience, and see if they'll train you. Definitely don't try to pretend.

Or do some boning up and practice if you have enough time before the interview. If they're looking for more design than programming than you might be okay. Otherwise, I think you'll have some convincing to do.

[razuel]

When it comes to designing web pages do you design it in Photoshop first then slice it up and then hand code all the images in???

For example something like this: http://www.magurno.com/

If you're asking me-- yes I've done that. I really work mostly with flash now though.

[mar1300]

I dunno, I think if you're asking a question as basic as that, you're probably not qualified for this job, unless you can talk them into training you. I'm not trying to be harsh here. Just that you seem to need more HTML skills and such.

The fact that you've asked if you'd be qualified hints to me that you think you wouldn't be.

I would go for the interview anyway, be upfront with them about your experience, and see if they'll train you. Definitely don't try to pretend.

Or do some boning up and practice if you have enough time before the interview. If they're looking for more design than programming than you might be okay. Otherwise, I think you'll have some convincing to do.


The thing is I took a web developer course for a year (it's a two year course), and a lot of it was reading books or throwing things into Dreamweaver or flash, very little practical work was done, and not enough coding. I can look at XHTML code and for the most part understand it, but when it comes to applying it I’m kind of lost. I know I can do if I get the right exposure.

[urstwile]

I hope you don't think I was casting aspersions on your potential to do the job, because I wasn't. Just that your doubts were clear in the original post.

I'd say go for it, tell them your practical experience, whatever it is, and then hope for the best.

Don't go for a job that you can't do, though. That doesn't benefit you or them. You'll be frustrated and freaked out. And they will expect you to know more than you do know.

You might be able to sell your abilities for learning, but it will become readily apparent that you don't know what you're doing right away if you b.s. your way in. Judge that risk accordingly. That's all I'm saying.

Good luck! :)

[mar1300]

I hope you don't think I was casting aspersions on your potential to do the job, because I wasn't. Just that your doubts were clear in the original post.

I'd say go for it, tell them your practical experience, whatever it is, and then hope for the best.

Don't go for a job that you can't do, though. That doesn't benefit you or them. You'll be frustrated and freaked out. And they will expect you to know more than you do know.

You might be able to sell your abilities for learning, but it will become readily apparent that you don't know what you're doing right away if you b.s. your way in. Judge that risk accordingly. That's all I'm saying.

Good luck! :)

I didn't take it the wrong way....thanks for the advice....i was planning on sellin' my learning abilities.

[tZ]

I barely know HTML and can design and build web sites 10x better than some people I've seen.

With the tutorials that are out today, it's really not that tough in my opinion.

But I realize tutorials wont always be readily available, so learning to code is a must for me.

There are alot of things that go into web development that many people overlook.

Just as print design requires certain technical aspects to produce well done work web design is the same way. To just slice and throw stuff in dreamweaver is not the correct and most benifencial way to produce a web page.

The same is true with flash. Knowing flash and knowing how to develop a web page are two seperate things. So aesthetically, you may create designs that look better in your opinion then others but, on the web really the thing that matters most is useability and accessaability. Your design may look 'kick @ss' but, if its decreasing your customer database becasue it is done in flash and inaccesable by lets say… 10% of people doesn't help much on the business aspect since, the business is losing 10% of customer market just becasue you decide you like flash.

So I mean… there are alot of backend things that go into developing a web page. Aesthetics are a big thing but, in web development if the design is accessable and useable is a large part also.

just to clarify.

lastly, scripting is technical. The only affect it has on a design is limiting it. Since, alot of things like turning text for instance is difficult if impossible to achive with even with a hefty javascript script in most browsers. Other things you need to look at is the differences between browser types and how they will affect the core layout.

Slicing in photoshop is the worst way to create a web page. Flash is even worst(in my opinion) in many instances. For a web portfolio yeah… I can see it. However, if your developing a site for a company then developing a site entirly flash is not only stupid but, will hurt the company more then it will help it in the long run.

[razuel]

There are alot of things that go into web development that many people overlook.

Just as print design requires certain technical aspects to produce well done work web design is the same way. To just slice and throw stuff in dreamweaver is not the correct and most benifencial way to produce a web page.

The same is true with flash. Knowing flash and knowing how to develop a web page are two seperate things. So aesthetically, you may create designs that look better in your opinion then others but, on the web really the thing that matters most is useability and accessaability. Your design may look 'kick @ss' but, if its decreasing your customer database becasue it is done in flash and inaccesable by lets say… 10% of people doesn't help much on the business aspect since, the business is losing 10% of customer market just becasue you decide you like flash.

So I mean… there are alot of backend things that go into developing a web page. Aesthetics are a big thing but, in web development if the design is accessable and useable is a large part also.

just to clarify.

lastly, scripting is technical. The only affect it has on a design is limiting it. Since, alot of things like turning text for instance is difficult if impossible to achive with even with a hefty javascript script in most browsers. Other things you need to look at is the differences between browser types and how they will affect the core layout.

Slicing in photoshop is the worst way to create a web page. Flash is even worst(in my opinion) in many instances. For a web portfolio yeah… I can see it. However, if your developing a site for a company then developing a site entirly flash is not only stupid but, will hurt the company more then it will help it in the long run.

Agreed, but again, with the tutorials out today even things, such as, user friendliness isn't that tough to achieve if enough time is spent on it.

But as stated, I do need to learn to code though and I know why. But I've seen professionals charging thousands for things my mom could do with some web site maker.

[mar1300]

I know some of my questions might sound a little bit silly but it was the way I was taught….slice it up and throw it in Dreamweaver or flash. Nothing was really hand coded. Since I’ve been coming to this forum I’ve learned a lot of things. But the one thing I can’t quite grasp is I hear not to slice up images in Photoshop. So what is the proper way of getting your graphics, background, and the whole design layout and apply it with code???

[tZ]

Still make a mock-up in photoshop or whatever then slice it up isolating the important imagery only.

The keyword here is only.

What exporting to HTML does is it creates a bunch of images based that are then positioned using tables.

Basically, export HTML takes your composition (think of it like a sheet of paper) and cuts it up into a bunch of pieces. All those pieces are then saved as jpg's and in dreamweaver put into a table to create the layout.

What you should do is create the layout and slice up only what you need. You don't need white space so why slice it up? Well… dreamweaver doesn't know better so it makes all the slices images to be safe but, the human mind knows better. Taking only what is needed which is then placed using HTML and CSS rather then a table.

I could go into all the reasons why this is increasinyly important and more effective in web world but, its been talked about so many times on this forum I'm sure you can find something about it.

[killakoala]

The real problem with not understanding the code behind the work you are producing is when something goes wrong and you need to troubleshoot to find a fix. If you are applying for a web designer position you are also going to be in charge of maintaining the website(s) as well. When you understand the code and understand the flow of a program/rendering engine it makes it that much easier to find a solution. I have no formal knowledge of PHP but I have an extensive background in how programming languages work so I can edit and add lines of code without understanding the exact syntax. Thats a part of the job that no tutorial can teach you.

[chris_bcn]

You need to know how to code to be a web design / development professional.

We are starting to look for another web developer to add to our team. I am looking at people's resumes and those that can't hand code get thrown in the bin.

The days of slice and dice are long gone. You have to know how to code and WHY you're coding the way you do.

The barest minimum at a reputable firm will be solid / expert HTML and CSS, and good JavaScript. Any PHP would be a plus (I know very little PHP, but am learning as fast as I can so that I can create more options for myself.

The only minor exception would be flash - but even then you need to have good Actionscript skills.

In short - you need to learn your code. You nay get lucky and find a company that is prepared to take you on and train you. Personally if I'm going to pay someone 45+k a year for a web dev position, I expect them to know what they're doing

[mar1300]

thanks for all the tips and advice. school is teaching me the technical part so what's the best way to get real practical experience??

[budafist]

Does your course have a work experience segment. Regardless, you should get some work experience before you finish your course.

Call around studios that you might want to work with in the future and let them know that you are a student needing to get some work experience.