Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : can html sites have the wow factor?
Emmanize
11-28-2006, 04:45 PM
Can HTML sites have the “wow factor”? :confused: I mean the same kind of wow factor that matches that of a flash website.
I am fed up of seeing clients say “I want a flash website to give it that Wow Factor”. Surely a talented or experienced web designer would be able to make an html website look good in this way as well?
I don’t like flash as i have always been more of a graphics person, but I am going to have too look into it more as soon as I am able too. But not to make flash sites as I am personally not a huge fan of them, I just think so many out there look tacky and desperate. :rolleyes:
Mynock
11-28-2006, 04:50 PM
Yeah, but it causes loose stool.
ecsyle
11-28-2006, 04:51 PM
^^^
hahaha
JPnyc
11-28-2006, 04:56 PM
Yes, they can, but it requires a lot of javascript and use of images. That's what largely sets the look of html sites apart from flash. Things move about, fonts are smoother, everything fades in and out, even if very quickly. You can accomplish most or all of that with the use of javacsript and images for any font larger than say, 10pt.
chris_bcn
11-28-2006, 04:58 PM
Check the showcase sites.
www.cssbeauty.com
www.cssmania.com
Emmanize
11-28-2006, 05:00 PM
But that’s the thing; do things have to move around to give a website the wow factor? I find it annoying and over done but that’s just my opinion I suppose.
D-Frag
11-28-2006, 05:08 PM
no emma, you can do "WOW" design using CSS and html.... some sites my buddy has done to give you an idea...
http://thedames.com/
http://gravenine.com/
Emmanize
11-28-2006, 05:14 PM
no emma, you can do "WOW" design using CSS and html.... some sites my buddy has done to give you an idea...
http://thedames.com/
http://gravenine.com/
Thanks for that. That’s what I keep trying to tell people. But i don't think they listen. I suppose its more work for flash designers though lol.
JPnyc
11-28-2006, 05:24 PM
But that’s the thing; do things have to move around to give a website the wow factor? I find it annoying and over done but that’s just my opinion I suppose.
Well it's not so much things whipping around which I agree, is distracting and annoying, but rather any sort of animation in a site. The most subtle things that one might not necessarily notice, can make a difference in the user's impression of a site.
I've never had a client ask me for a flash site.
Neballer
11-28-2006, 06:26 PM
I'm going to go with chris on this one
http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/190/190.css&page=0
the first time I saw this, I "WOW'd" in my pants. It's so clean and simple, and really showed me what I should be doing with css.
I feel I can give a WOW factor in css & html, but As I sit here in my intermediate Flash class, I'm glad I know something, if it's needed. As one "graphics" person to another I can tell you that the basics aren't that hard to learn, and if people want to give you money for knowing these things, well....
I'm definitely getting turned off by flash sites and especially since IE7 now has the "click to activate" on every flash element now a days.
The movement toward clean, easy-to-use sites suit my taste more. A sleek professional site gets more Wow from me than a black background, minute text, animated buttons, and god forbid, a song.
Crimson
11-28-2006, 07:05 PM
Maybe you should start wearing a yellow raincoat when you are interviewing clients.
Just tell the client Flash is a tool but not the total answer. I like flash sites but it very easy to become a gimmick. I love flash and what I can learn in it. However, I know I sometimes have to curb my enthusiasm about it to say the right message.
Yes CSS is your friend as well.
resdog
11-28-2006, 08:15 PM
I think that the biggest thing flash has over html is the animation factor. If you look on csszengarden.com, you will see tons of wow-factor designs, that are just html and css. What they have is images. I think images will make the wow factor.
JPnyc
11-28-2006, 08:42 PM
that's my point, resdog, it IS the animation that is the only real difference. What people are showing here are examples lovely design, but they won't make any flash junkie happy because they in no way compete with a flash site on it's own ground. However it IS possible to compete to an extent with flash sites using html/css and javascript combined. It's a lot of work, but then so if flash action scripting
Emmanize
11-28-2006, 08:53 PM
Thanks Guys.
Things moving around a page dose not impress me, and doesn’t even put the site on a higher scale (maybe for annoyance but that’s it lol) But then I suppose its all opinion. It’s just annoying that a lot of people think of flash as web design, or flash is the only type of web site out there. I think flash has its market like movie websites or anything else involved in entertainment. But I think an html site would work also.
killakoala
11-28-2006, 09:18 PM
Thanks Guys.
Things moving around a page dose not impress me, and doesn’t even put the site on a higher scale (maybe for annoyance but that’s it lol) But then I suppose its all opinion. It’s just annoying that a lot of people think of flash as web design, or flash is the only type of web site out there. I think flash has its market like movie websites or anything else involved in entertainment. But I think an html site would work also.
I completely agree. If Im going to the homepage of an interactive media studio or something of that nature I expect the usage and sometimes over usage of flash. But there are times when I stumble across a companies website and I refuse to sit through the "loading" screen and will immediately close the window and move on to the next company. I think once it is explained to the client that while flash may give the "WOW" factor it comes at the expense of accessiblity and usability. Not everyone is on a broadband connection, not everyone has flash installed, not everyone has the ability to see or navigate through the page due to disability. Although it may be a small percentage its still a chunk of customers that may leave your website just because you want animations flying around everywhere. I dont consider flash websites to be webdesign but rather an entity in itself that has its place on the web, but not for the majority of clients out there.
chris_bcn
11-28-2006, 09:21 PM
I am lucky I guess as I don't encounter this very often. Flash elements occasionally, but not full flash websites. When asked, I explain to them why I think it's a bad idea, and the benefits of not having a fully flash site. If nothing else push the SEO factor. That normally works - if they still insist I generally don't take the job. Not worth the hassle as 9 times out of 10 the client has unreal expectations as to what the site can do for their business. Never worth the hassle
You have to put your reason forward, educate the client as to why you don't think it's a good idea. suggest flash elements, that can degrade nicely, and are unobtrusive
Emmanize
11-28-2006, 09:41 PM
I also haven’t had a client come to me about a flash site, however I was looking at new projects clients want doing. They all wanted flash and the type of site didn’t need flash.
I know the SEO and load time is a flash issue, what else is there I should know about the cons of flash?
it's annoying. I don't even have flash installed on this machine because I can't stand having my time wasted. I don't want to be entertained, if I'm on your site it's to get some information 99.999% of the time. If I have time for entertainment, that'll be my choice, and I'll go cruise around youtube or something. A flash site that is appropriate in context and well-made is flat out AMAZING no argument there. But it's misused most of the time. Flash elements are ok, but if all you're giving me is the option to sit through your movie or not get the information, I click away.
Another issue is that the user doesn't have the power to bookmark elements. I get really frustrated when I dig through a flash site to find some information, and I can't email somebody a link. You have to say, "Go to this site, click on this, this this, turn left then back up three steps spin around and then you'll find it."
Annoying.
ecsyle
11-28-2006, 10:48 PM
Another issue is that the user doesn't have the power to bookmark elements. I get really frustrated when I dig through a flash site to find some information, and I can't email somebody a link. You have to say, "Go to this site, click on this, this this, turn left then back up three steps spin around and then you'll find it."
Annoying.
YES
killakoala
11-28-2006, 10:49 PM
I know the SEO and load time is a flash issue, what else is there I should know about the cons of flash?
Some of the bigger issues...
- SEO optimization.
- Inaccessible to screen readers or special browsers.
- Inaccessible to some older browsers.
Some of the smaller issues...
- Cant bookmark certain pages.
- Cant copy and paste text (I know i do this a lot with contact info).
- No use of browser buttons like back and forward or refresh without exiting or refreshing the entire page.
Im sure there are more out there but those are ones that I come across the most. I think once most web designers realize that 99.9% of the time we are not designing for other tech savy people like ourselves but rather the common user, full-flash sites will be reconsidered.
Piscosour
11-28-2006, 11:19 PM
I am lucky I guess as I don't encounter this very often. Flash elements occasionally, but not full flash websites.
I agree with you but sites like http://2advanced.com/ are designed to impress the general public to make a potential client to say I want this guys to design my web site, that is the reason. it is amazing and annoying at the same time and I agree with all of you guys but sometimes it is good to see the world as a client , a person that not necessarily knows about internet. When you are sitting with them talking about the project, you can expose the best option for them which is not necessarily a flash web site.
JPnyc
11-28-2006, 11:23 PM
Messing with my browser buttons (rendering them useless) and the inability to copy and paste, are the 2 biggies for me. I don't do flash sites at all. I just close em.
Emmanize
11-29-2006, 11:12 AM
That http://2advanced.com/ (http://2advanced.com/) is great but that’s probably one of the only flash websites I have seen that’s ok. But still, its 90% if fannying around. How long and complicated does it have to be to go to the next page? It felt like I was controlling a DVD menu rather then a website.
javascript is a wonderfull thing.
setInterval() is your friend but, use it sparingly.
Drazan
11-30-2006, 02:41 AM
A well built, well designed, well organized website will hands down beat a flash site.
Main thing you want to do is ferret out the why.
you: Why do you want flash? client: I want it to wow my user?
you: What is your marketing budget for your website? Client: why?
You: It will take 5 times the marketing to generate the same amount of trafic for a flash site as it would an html site. (standard html searchable vs. flash non searchable) Client: But so-and-so uses it (aka: pepsi, coke, other big name)
You: Companies like _____ have a multimillion dollar (insert own $$ comparison) marketing budget to drive people to their website. (depending on the client reinstate your belief of an exciting design and functionality along with SEO benefits.)
Client: But I really want flash. You: have you considered an online commercial using flash to promote your product/service? This would be a great way to draw attention to your services rather than have something be animated that really doesn't benefit your business.
The client could be diverted to a flash element to promote their business vs something that will drive people away. ALWAYS phrase things to benefit the client to gain them more business and in many cases they will appreciate the extra thought to give them a better result for their money.
Damn, I did way to much copy writing today.