Matching pantone colors

[lolly74]

hi all I'm new here :)

I just need advice. i made a logo in illustrator and used pantone coated spot colors. I usually give the illustrator file to the client in this format.
then i toyed with the idea of having the illustrator file also converted to cmyk equivalents of the spot colors so i went to each color, clicked the cmyk button in color tab of illustrator. then i decided to check the cmyk formula with my color bridge then i realized they don't match. I also noticed that when i pick a pantone color in photoshop and get the eyedropper tool, the cmyk formula doesn't match the formula on pantone color bridge.

so question is, is this normal and should i go in and change the cmyk formulas in illustrator to match the conversion in color bridge?

lolly74

[steve2112]

They never match up exactly and different programs convert to cmyk differently. The best way is to get the pantone color bridge book and use those values. I find that when you convert files and the have fraction for numbers(i.e. cyan 15.5) then they will be a problem. Many pantone colors will never match a CMYK press. Different gamut of colors. Also the regular pantone solid book have whether they convert nice indicted on every swatch. Lately I lead customer to picking colors that can convert and when I explain why the usually understand. Also get the pantone process books I use them a lot in design too especially when dealing with small customer doing copier work.

Steve

[lolly74]

Also get the pantone process books I use them a lot in design too especially when dealing with small customer doing copier work.

Steve

thanks Steve for the advice. :)

The pantone process books you mentioned, are they still different from the cmyk conversion in the color bridge?

lolly74

[steve2112]

I know that with the latest edition of the books they changed some numbers here and there. So i really don't know. Keep in mind that unless the print shop has good calibrated equipment and you understand what standards they are using you still might get a color shift. Every brand of cyan, magenta, black and yellow is a bit different so be a little careful. Also copiers have a hard time keeping consistant color. If people are set to using certain color like reflex blue, red 32 and other colors that do not translate well just set up a file to be used for one color work, a file for 2 color, and file just for process color work. This is real simple and should take more than a few minutes. You might be able to charge more or use to show how professional you are and how you are convering you client for many different purpose. Also you could include a RGB for web stuff.

Steve

[PrintDriver]

Color Bridge is evil.
The formulas used to simulate the PMS colors are only good if you are printing a PMS Color Bridge book. It is a guide to show you what your PMS colors may look like in CMYK plate printing.

I don't know of any printers (in my industry-wide format) that want you to be replacing PMS solid colors (coated or uncoated) with Bridge numbers, even though they are the same number with a PC after them, the formula are extremely different.

I'm all for dumping a standard that can't stay standard. Pantone changes their color formulae every couple of years. And they only do it to sell new books while leaving the printers to figure out what book the designer was looking at to bounce a perfect match.
I wonder what Toyo is up to these days...
:mad:

[lolly74]

Are the bridge numbers different from the numbers on the PMS process color books?

[CamarotaDesign]

Lolly,

My suggestion is to see if your printer has some printed CMYK color buid swatch guides. My printer has them available for free, and they list a lot of color builds with the numbers used to create each one. From that it gives me a pretty good base to judge a pantone conversion for that specific printer. Like steve said, all printers are going to be different. No only is different ink brands and press settings a factor, but the methods for screening and the paper you print on are also going to come into play.

Pantone conversion to CMYK in any program will be pretty far off. The best thing is like what steve said. Talk to the printer, find out as much as you can about their operation. What type of inks they use, their in-program color settings even see if they are even cool enough to come over and calibrate your monitor to match their's as close as possible. (if you do a lot of jobs with them)

Try and get your hands on a lot of their printed samples and ask them what the color builds were, take a field trip to their place. If your printer doesnt want to deal with this, chances are they are too busy to spend the time to provide a quality prints for every job or they arent very nice.. either way, get a different printer.

A good frame of mind to have when designing is to know that there are many variables and what you see on the screen is not what you get.

[PrintDriver]

Definitely talk to the printer. We have charts showing how PMS colors print on various media from paper to vinyl to various fabrics. Everyone of them is different.