How do I flatten an Illustrator file?

[Illustrator]

Hi. I have a question regarding Adobe Illustrator CS2.

How can I flatten a file of layers like Photoshop so that I don't have to give the original source file to my print service? I don't want to give the original and I prefer not to use PDF format because the results are very unpredictable (stuff coming out missing, transparency, gradient issues, etc).

Anyway I can flatten a Illustrator AI file into one layer and disable the editing feature or flatten it into one artwork without giving the original source?

Thanks.

[Seapony]

Easiest way: In your Layers palette, click on the little options arrow and scroll down to "flatten artwork."

Voila.

Best bet though is to just send the print service a press ready pdf (basically a high resolution pdf). Make sure your document raster settings are set at least 300 dpi for images and 1200 dpi for text. Save As—>Adobe PDF, btw.

:)

[Illustrator]

Thanks. For some reason, my bleed and crop marks are not showing. Everytime I convert to PDF, it comes out the exact size it is to be final trimmed. Odd...

[hewligan]

Yeah, illustrator does that. As far as I know, you need to allow space on your art board for crops and stuff. Unless someone else comes along and tells me I'm wrong, in which case we'll both have learnt something... :)

[PrintDriver]

What I don't understand is why you don't want to send your layered file to your printer. We request them whenever possible just in case something needs to be tweeked for some reason. It's not like your printer is going to sell your art...
And all I'm going to say about crops/bleed/pdf in Illy is that you can do all three.
RTFM

[panzer]

he obviously doesnt trust them

do they do design as well ????

[rickself]

What I don't understand is why you don't want to send your layered file to your printer. We request them whenever possible just in case something needs to be tweeked for some reason. It's not like your printer is going to sell your art...
RTFMIf I have a file that isn't printing correctly, I prefer a file WITH layers so I can troubleshoot, because obviously the designer has done something that the RIP is not accepting.


And all I'm going to say about crops/bleed/pdf in Illy is that you can do all three. RTFM
EVERY application today has a help menu, usually found at the far right end of the main menu bar. It WILL answer 99% of your concerns.

[Illustrator]

What I don't understand is why you don't want to send your layered file to your printer. We request them whenever possible just in case something needs to be tweeked for some reason. It's not like your printer is going to sell your art...
And all I'm going to say about crops/bleed/pdf in Illy is that you can do all three.
RTFM

I'm only making one great quality print for a portfolio display, so I prefer not to give the original.

[Illustrator]

he obviously doesnt trust them

do they do design as well ????

I'm not sure, I don't think so.

[PrintDriver]

If the print vendor doesn't acknowlege boundaries in regards to clients, then it's time to get a new print vendor.

[Seapony]

What I don't understand is why you don't want to send your layered file to your printer. We request them whenever possible just in case something needs to be tweeked for some reason. It's not like your printer is going to sell your art...
And all I'm going to say about crops/bleed/pdf in Illy is that you can do all three.
RTFM

I never send working files if I can avoid it.

1. No one "tweaks" my files but me—you can't guarantee they know what they're doing in any case.

2. There are places that steal work and resell them. I know of another forum colleague that had his design stolen and then resold to a major network. The printer shrugged and fessed up as though it were just another transaction and an issue between the two parties. Don't assume that everyone there has your best interests at heart, even if they are reputable (as these people supposedly were).

3. Not even my clients get my working files—those are my property and no one but I benefits by having them.

That said, re: crops, extend your artboard, do NOT "create crops," create trim marks and custom make your register marks. I've had experiences where for some reason you can't really manipulate the crops as you can the trim marks and they sometimes act wonky. I don't know why that feature is there anyway considering that you can add registration in your separations menu (did you activate that, btw? you can keep your artboard to the live area and in the separations preview activate the marks) and you can create your own trim marks under Effects.

:)

[carter the artist]

After working on the printing side of the industry, now I'm a designer and I ALWAYS try to send the native files. Always. Always. Trust me, nothing worse than a prepress monkey banging away at a flattened file trying to fix color or pdf situations!!

[Seapony]

If I have a file that isn't printing correctly, I prefer a file WITH layers so I can troubleshoot, because obviously the designer has done something that the RIP is not accepting.

You can check for improperly embedded images/fonts using Acrobat Pro. Plus it can also be that the bureau is importing saaaaay an Illy eps into Corel. :p

Jokes aside, it's a real shame that some designers really have no clue regarding proper pre-flighting, because I think it should be a requirement. It drives me nuts whenever I hear exuses like, "not my problem, it's their job to get it done right and on time..." *sigh* In my days working pre-press, I've worked with big time designers who didn't have a clue and my bosses didn't clue them in because they wanted to keep the account at all costs. It made no sense, but I digress.

:)

[budafist]

I work in prepress, but we do design here too. I give open files to anyone that needs it. I guess it's different if it is your personal work, but if it's for a client, the client should be allowed to give it to who they want. That's the view around here anyway...

[Seapony]

After working on the printing side of the industry, now I'm a designer and I ALWAYS try to send the native files. Always. Always. Trust me, nothing worse than a prepress monkey banging away at a flattened file trying to fix color or pdf situations!!

Dare I suggest calling the designer?

Bottom line, it should be the designer's responsibility to hand over a properly preflighted file. If you're working in a press bureau it's a different story, because many of them also do a fair share of retouching and typesetting, so native files are necessary. But if you're outputting a simple one page magazine ad or something and it doesn't print, the client would be notified, questions would be asked. Worse comes to worse, they would be called in.

It's easy to just submit the native files, but a designer should know what they're doing so that if there is a problem for whatever reason, it's easy to troubleshoot.

:)

[Seapony]

I work in prepress, but we do design here too. I give open files to anyone that needs it. I guess it's different if it is your personal work, but if it's for a client, the client should be allowed to give it to who they want. That's the view around here anyway...

The final is theirs to do as they wish because that's what they paid for, not the working files. What use do they have in obtaining them when it comes to the final print? It makes no sense, no other industry comes to my mind that employs such a method of handing over products and blue prints. I was paid for designing an ad, an ad is what they got.

Besides, what's to stop them from taking those same files and handing them to someone else to tweak further? That wasn't part of the contract (although there are exceptions). They can easily take credit and you won't have much of a legal leg to stand on. I've seen many a folks get burned, both by my (former) co-workers and from accounts from other folks.

I don't believe in blind faith myself, but to each their own.

:)

[carter the artist]

Dare I suggest calling the designer?

Bottom line, it should be the designer's responsibility to hand over a properly preflighted file.

It's easy to just submit the native files, but a designer should know what they're doing so that if there is a problem for whatever reason, it's easy to troubleshoot.

:)

In a perfect world, you'd be correct. However the truth is that we dealt with a lot of "secretary designers" which means their knowledge of the programs was limited to the fact that their kids had downloaded a copy of CD. Then their knowledge of design was worse and their knowledge of the files and prepress was even more so nil.

that all aside, most designers never really learn the whole truths of their filetypes. So they just export a pdf and think it's good to go. HOwever if they don't set that up, the printers find problems. Problems they could fix if they send the native files to rip. Also, their is always the great color shifts that are easier to do in the file than the rip.

I'm just saying, in my experience of printing, if the designer sends a complete native, then there should be limited problems in the printing.

[rickself]

I'm just saying, in my experience of printing, if the designer sends a complete native, then there should be limited problems in the printing.Everybody from the boss on down the line cannot figure why I insist on native files, AS WELL AS a pdf. I'll look at the pdf first, and if it doesn't meet my standards, I have the native files to fall back on and won't lose that tight print window.

[Ned]

1. If you want your vector files in their basest form, then Create Outlines of all text, then Expand Appearances (fill and stroke) of everything else. Simple.

2. If you want crop marks within your artboard, create a box of the area you want cropped, then use "Object => Crop Marks => Create" (I think that's the right progression - I'm using a hotel computer right now, so I can't double check).

[morea]

Everybody from the boss on down the line cannot figure why I insist on native files, AS WELL AS a pdf. I'll look at the pdf first, and if it doesn't meet my standards, I have the native files to fall back on and won't lose that tight print window.

Amen to that... so many designers don't set files properly for printing, and then get upset that they miss their deadline when their job had to be set aside until they send the native file.

[urstwile]

Seapony, sounds like you have an unfortunate karma regarding working with unscrupulous people.

We send PDF X-1A files to most publications that we submit ads to (their request, they don't accept native files) and native files to the printer for things like brochures, etc. Given that the deadline has usually been shot to hell by the client by the time we are ready to submit the final artwork, this allows the printer and us the most flexibility in getting anywhere near the final print deadline.

In general, if revisions are required to be made, it's our call as to whether we submit new files to the printer after making the revisions or not. In terms of last-minute typos, etc., having the printer make the change on their end is generally quicker. It's ultimately our call, however.

[Seapony]

Everybody from the boss on down the line cannot figure why I insist on native files, AS WELL AS a pdf. I'll look at the pdf first, and if it doesn't meet my standards, I have the native files to fall back on and won't lose that tight print window.

That, rather regrettably, makes the most sense of all. Unfortunately even with the most experienced and celebrated designers, you can't tell for sure if they'll properly prepare their files for print. By the same token you can't guarantee that a production worker won't screw up your job somehow or even pilfer your ideas, so going both ways is a more sure bet for making the deadline if for anything else, particularly if you don't know how to set up a proper PDF.

Since I have experience on both sides, I don't need to offer native files. I know that what I'm sending is dead on, and if I'm not sure (as I was recently on an embossing job), I know the right questions to ask so that I do. I just feel that it's the sort of thing all designers should know...or learn eventually. And to a large degree, I blame the university's deficient design curriculum for this, but I digress.

:)

[Seapony]

2. If you want crop marks within your artboard, create a box of the area you want cropped, then use "Object => Crop Marks => Create" (I think that's the right progression - I'm using a hotel computer right now, so I can't double check).

Dear merciful heavens Ned don't use that method. :D I've heard stories on the prepress side when they have trouble manipulating those things because they aren't vectored points like the trim marks features (under Effects). Don't even know why they added that function in the first place, seems rather redundant to me. Unless of course, they fixed that glitch...I'm still using CS1.


:)

[urstwile]

I can't speak to the pilfering of ideas, Seapony, as that's something that never comes to my mind as a "production worker". However, I do know that I've seen some really jacked up files. I consider it my job to fix them...after frequent communication with the person who sent them to me in the first place.

The key words here are "with the permission of the designer", and frequent communication with the designer is critical. Frequent proofs back and forth, an agreement between the printer and the designer, are also critical.

While on some levels it's refreshing to see that people want to know what they're doing in all phases of the process, at the same time, I still think there's a healthy space available for designers to do their jobs (design) and production people to do theirs (get the job produced correctly). It can be a partnership. In the old days, it was.

I'd expect the same type of partnership between an architect and a construction crew. Why is it so hard to see that happening in our industry?

[Seapony]

Seapony, sounds like you have an unfortunate karma regarding working with unscrupulous people.

Not me personally. However as an indie contractor working for several prepress bureaus over the moons I've heard stories...plus I've seen the sort of folks these places hire, normally for "not as competetive" wages if you know what I mean. Ordinarily these guys really don't care beyond getting the job out and clocking out on time. They're friendly and all, but they often remind me of t.v. frat boys or something. Only the old timers take their work seriously.

I hope they don't read this, otherwise I'm boned.

:rolleyes:

[urstwile]

Apparently we were posting at the same time. Read my post above yours in reference to "old-timers". LOL.

[Seapony]

I can't speak to the pilfering of ideas, Seapony, as that's something that never comes to my mind as a "production worker". However, I do know that I've seen some really jacked up files. I consider it my job to fix them...after frequent communication with the person who sent them to me in the first place.

The key words here are "with the permission of the designer", and frequent communication with the designer is critical. Frequent proofs back and forth, an agreement between the printer and the designer, are also critical.

While on some levels it's refreshing to see that people want to know what they're doing in all phases of the process, at the same time, I still think there's a healthy space available for designers to do their jobs (design) and production people to do theirs (get the job produced correctly). It can be a partnership. In the old days, it was.

I'd expect the same type of partnership between an architect and a construction crew. Why is it so hard to see that happening in our industry?
Many of these places aren't about communicating with the client anymore, most have a sales staff to do that anyway, the production worker rarely if ever speaks to them. All their concerns are voiced to the production manager and up the chain of command, which can be both a benefit and a drawback sometimes as it opens up some situations of miscomunication. A salesman for example may feel it's a greater benefit not to bog the client down with sordid details and instead focus on assurances that the job will be done correctly on time. Everyone's priorities are slightly different.

In one of the smaller bureaus I worked in, I was sometimes the only one who communicated technical issues with the clients in terms they could follow—and the employers discouraged that practice because it sometimes cut into my workflow depending on the scope of the problem. They only bent backwards for the high roller's (normally with assurances, and not explanations) and that would sometimes backfire too because they wanted their stuff the day before yesterday and couldn't understand the delays. Not to mention the paper and ink expense for the misrun jobs that they ate. It simply boggled my mind how they flourished sometimes.

I can't totally blame them though, these clients would walk in, expecting WYSIWHIG printing and it was always the same explanations over their panicked deadline yells as to why their colors were off, their fonts were re-ragging or bitmapped over and over again. Always demanding a free re-do. After awhile they just caveat emptor the whole process. They stressed the importance of providing a hard copy and without it, it was on them...we weren't expected to know or catch any problems without a hard copy.

Personally I'm all for communicating with the client to get the job done. I think it's essential in fact, and fosters a solid, fruitful and less stressful working relationship. In a perfect world I would like to think that every designer should have an understanding of the print side of the business for their own sake if for any other reason, but then again, we don't exactly live in a perfect world.

:)

[urstwile]

Nope, we sure don't. I guess since I'm old-school, and out of the loop on a lot of RIP and other issues, I'm probably unusual in my agressiveness about wanting to know what kind of muck I might be creating with certain scenarios. I know I definitely felt this way when I first stepped into working with InDesign and transparency issues (and still do, most of the time).

I always make sure to talk to the printer, and by printer, I don't mean the sales rep, I mean the guy (or gal, >>>been there, done that<<<<) that's going to be working on my project, with an eye to making sure I'm not sending them bananas when they need apples.

Then again, we're blessed at my agency, I think. We don't ALWAYS go to the same printer, but we usually do, and I have contact info for all the lead people on the floor, and they're always happy to talk to me. Because I make their job easier, making it possible for them to move on to the next impossible deadline. I've worked enough late nights back in the day to know that I'd rather talk to a cooperative, wants-to-know-how-to-do-it-better-next-time client than one who just says "well, can you just fix it, isn't that your job?"

Too bad this isn't universal. Times they have a-changed-a.

</end old fart rant> :)

[panzer]

ye gotta say most people we work with we tend to ask for the native files
who wouldnt want a job were you could just get it and print it
but life isnt like that, most of our clients are great though, we try to build a rapport with them
we keep them informed every step of the way
we do print and design here, a lot of the time we get files from designers which have loads of spelling mistakes and they havent took into account the way we do things BUT that isnt there fault, its great when you get the client who is helpful and listens to the printer :)

[PrintDriver]

There are still honorable people in the print industry. But like Graphic Design, anyone with a printer and a roll of vinyl thinks they are a printer now too. I've seen so many bad inkjets and car wraps done with the wrong materials and the wrong inks, even samples handed out by vendors at sign shows, that it isn't funny any more. Adding a new vendor is a year-long process for us now.

Wide format is very different from Press. If you don't have my transparency settings, raster output settings, machine/media profiles, and color charts, your flat files are going to look like crap in proof. Yes we can look at PDFs in Pitstop but do you really want us doing that?

I blame the design schools as well. And I blame the attitude of many designers, schooled or not, that if they can create it on screen, it can be printed. Which isn't necessarily true. No one actually LEARNS the software anymore before hanging out a Profession Designer shingle. Just look at the questions all over this forum.

[carter the artist]

PD: lol! i love that last line.

[Seapony]

There are still honorable people in the print industry. But like Graphic Design, anyone with a printer and a roll of vinyl thinks they are a printer now too. I've seen so many bad inkjets and car wraps done with the wrong materials and the wrong inks, even samples handed out by vendors at sign shows, that it isn't funny any more. Adding a new vendor is a year-long process for us now.

Wide format is very different from Press. If you don't have my transparency settings, raster output settings, machine/media profiles, and color charts, your flat files are going to look like crap in proof. Yes we can look at PDFs in Pitstop but do you really want us doing that?

I blame the design schools as well. And I blame the attitude of many designers, schooled or not, that if they can create it on screen, it can be printed. Which isn't necessarily true. No one actually LEARNS the software anymore before hanging out a Profession Designer shingle. Just look at the questions all over this forum.
Haha, do NOT get me started on the deficient college education system. I can forgive someone who's self trained to a degree because after all, they are learning as they go. There will come a point in their experience where it'll be unacceptable not to bone up on proper printing "essentials," but I figure it will take them a bit longer than learning in school, depending on the circumstances.

A university system however has NO exuse. It's absolutely appalling to see that at this stage of the game they still haven't adequately filled in the learning gaps in their required curriculum. Not just in pre-press but design business as well. Drives me nuts I guess because even after all these years I'm still a bit bitter over my own experience. I plunked down good money and sweat just to be thrown to the corporate wolves, but I digress.

:)

[carter the artist]

Trust me Seapony, I understand. I spent most of my "pre-press" class just doing a template... not learning how to set a file up for print. We spent a damned day making paper. making paper!!