Time Need to Produce Book Bluelines

[Pix_Z]

Hi everyone. I must say the forum content looks good, glad I found it since I'm a solo designer at my company.

Does anyone here have experience producing book/pamphlet bluelines/proofs? I've been working with a printer on a series of related, small books, about 30 pages each and similar content. Slowly the time for them to get me a proof has increased. They started out taking 1 to 1-1/2 days, now they are taking 3.

In the last round I made about 3 or 4 small changes (inserting a comma, correcting a widow, change a capital to lowercase etc.). They told me they had to RIP the ENTIRE file over again and that I MUST see a proof, even though I told them the changes were so miniscule I did not see a reason for another proof. Since we send PC files, I wasn't too fond of this since that meant I would have to reread the entire proof to make sure there was no problem with the conversion.

Fast foward to today. I have another book and made about 5 changes to the proof, again all very minor changes. This time I was told it "takes hours" for them to run proofs and I would be charged from here on for additional proofs, even though they are in PDF format, I make the changes and send a corrected Quark file, and indicate the last proof is good with indicated alterations.

I've never worked in a prepress environment, so I don't know how long this stuff really takes, but something just seems wrong. Why can't the printer just produce single page proofs on the affected pages? I've also worked with other printers who've supplied PDF proofs before, they've never charged extra for additional PDF proofs providing we're reasonable about it (one additional proof only). Is it possible they don't have imposition software and that's what's taking so long? Can someone lend some insight?

[rickself]

Hi Pix_Z. Welcome to GDF!
We generally take 24 hours to produce a proof. I work on both platforms, whichever software stays on the platform it came on... PC or Mac.

What version of Quark are you on? I have to say (and you'll find some agreement here) that the newer versions of Quark - 6 - 7 have had major font problems and if your printer doesn't have Quark on the PC and is converting things to Mac, it probably IS taking some extra time.

How about you providing them with pdf? If they aren't willing to do that, I'd look around for another printer. They may not have the software or the RIP to handle your files.

[Pix_Z]

I'm using Quark 6, and to confirm your prior statement, I sometimes wonder if I'd've been better off sticking with 5. It crashes on me like the good ol' days in the dawn of computing--ten, fifteen years back. And tables are a mixed bag.

Thanks for the advice. Is all that's required to provide files in PDF format that I save in the proper resolution and tell it to embed fonts? I've always sent Quark/Illustrator native files before, figuring it has the advantage that the printer can make changes for you in a pinch.

[PrintDriver]

If you are making changes and sending a NEW Quark file to the printer, of course they want to charge you for a new proof. You are sending them a new file and anything could happen. Especially in Quark. Make an arrangement with them to make the changes there and send you a pdf. They will still charge you. After all, their time is money too.

Also, you might want to consider a last proofread before sending the files. "Miniscule" changes, when they happen often enough and repeatedly enough, and especially if you are in the habit of sending new files for each change, will put your jobs off the print schedule because they have learned to wait for the changes. Any changes will blow the printer's production schedule. Especially last minute, new file changes. He's in business too. Other jobs will get bumped ahead of you and you wait for the next spot in the queue.

One to three days is normal proof turn time, depending on production schedule and how the proofs are being printed.

[rickself]

Scheduling is a good point, PD. Printing is a very time-based business. We know how much time for make-ready, how much time to run so many sheets, etc. Our schedule is on a large grid so you can see what's going on at any given time on any of the 6 presses (or so the story goes).

I'm not a big pusher of pdf's but when it comes to Quark especially, if the client knows HOW to create print-ready pdf's, let 'em do it. BUT also, as long as you are burning that cd, send the collected Quark file and all the fonts and links. Then double check, because Quack is known for missing some things.

As far as the proofing time, 30 pages could be 1-4 runs depending on the plate size and your page size. So I think 3 days may be a bit long, but even adding a word or punctuation to only 1 page, the file has to be re-ripped. Or possibly the prepress dept has somebody new. I'm pretty set in my ways and know how to get things through the system, but as soon as I'm gone, the next person is going to think there's a faster way to do things and, welll....:D

Keep an open conversation. We prepress people appreciate your questions and talking with the client. Talk before the project is a happier conversation than talk after the project is done (late or wrong). We want your business.

[Pix_Z]

I've tried asking them to make the changes for me, but they refuse. I guess my problem isn't necessarily that I'm getting charged--I've been charged for additional color proofs before, and I've told them it's OK to charge for making the changes on the electronic files themselves--but that I'm being given no options. They won't make minor changes, and insist that I make them. But once I do, and tell them the proof is OK with indicated changes, they won't run the project until I proofread all 30 pages again. There's gotta be a better way.

[PrintDriver]

Hire a proofreader?

[jimking]

I've tried asking them to make the changes for me, but they refuse. I guess my problem isn't necessarily that I'm getting charged--I've been charged for additional color proofs before, and I've told them it's OK to charge for making the changes on the electronic files themselves--but that I'm being given no options. They won't make minor changes, and insist that I make them. But once I do, and tell them the proof is OK with indicated changes, they won't run the project until I proofread all 30 pages again. There's gotta be a better way.
Strange that they will not do minor corrections. I insist that I do the minor corrections. I can correct the pdfs in my workflow and output on the fly. If the client sends a new file everytime there's a minor correction these files including pdfs have to be trouble shooted everytime they are entered into the flow, which takes more time. It sounds like they've got rookies working for them. Also, is the printer providing bluelines for you or digital proofs? Bluelines are generated from film which would take longer too.

[rickself]

If you're in a larger metropolitan area, I'd certainly check out other printers. If I'm aware that one of my clients is looking elsewhere, I may have to re-evaluate the way I'm doing something.

[upekkharich]

it sounds like your printer is using an older RIP as well, most modern RIP hardware/software solutions allow for individual page RIPs & page substitutions , but making a blueline (vs digital proof) is a very time consuming MANUAL process with many more procedures involved (and more expensive)

[steve2112]

I can understand why a company would want you to supply a whole new file as it washes there hands clean of any problems that they might do. I do not do that where I work but I think its the bosses call. Also it might be more cost effective, more profit for the printer, for charging to run another set of prepress stuff on the files then just fixing one page. If the colors and breaks where good last time why not get just a inkjet proof that would take the printer 30 minutes to print. Even better just get a copier proof for postion only. We do not charge for postion proofs.

Steve